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Why do Chr-stians and non-Christians alike believe they will go to heaven when they die?

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Or not, because death and separation from loved ones still hurts regardless of afterlife views.
Well, then they will have to be rational about that. Namely that if their dear ones will follow, then it is just a small delay.Negligible when compared with eternity. If not, then it is pointless anyway.

But since those beliefs have a fundamentally irrational basis, I do not expect that they see that. Obviously. Since if they saw it, they would not believe in it to start with.

Ciao

- viole
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Well, then they will have to be rational about that. Namely that if their dear ones will follow, then it is just a small delay.Negligible when compared with eternity. If not, then it is pointless anyway.

But since those beliefs have a fundamentally irrational basis, I do not expect that they see that. Obviously. Since if they saw it, they would not believe in it to start with.

Ciao

- viole
This is callous and rude, you know. I've lost my mom to terminal cancer, and I believe in an afterlife and so did she. It still hurt, and this is insulting. You should keep others in mind before making such comments. Even if you do see each other again in some fashion, it's still years and decades of them being gone.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
This is callous and rude, you know. I've lost my mom to terminal cancer, and I believe in an afterlife and so did she. It still hurt, and this is insulting. You should keep others in mind before making such comments. Even if you do see each other again in some fashion, it's still years and decades of them being gone.
So, should I censor what I believe so that some people are not emotionally overwhelmed? How old are you? If you are younger than 10, I apologise.

And how much is this forum ready to take in the interest of free thinking, when rational free thinking collides with emotions, as it always does?

My spider, and my kids, are atheist. Should I get offended by Christians who claim I will never see them again? Should I report them, considering that I love them enormously?

Ciao

- viole
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
So, should I censor what I believe so that some people are not emotionally overwhelmed? How old are you? If you are younger than 10, I apologise.

And how much is this forum ready to take in the interest of free thinking, when rational free thinking collides with emotions, as it always does?

Ciao

- viole
No. I'm 31. I've known multiple people who have problems with empathy, emotion and so on. One of the best friends I had for over a decade had schizophrenia, mostly the negative symptoms, which includes things like emotional blunting, flat affect, problems with empathy and presents similarly as the autistic symptoms along the same lines. But this person was still compassionate and didn't make rude or callous comments, even if she didn't really understand how to respond at times. This person is very antisocial but still managed to learn how to politely discuss things with people.

Emotion is not the enemy of rational thinking. But I don't want to derail this thread.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
No. I'm 31. I've known multiple people who have problems with empathy, emotion and so on. One of the best friends I had for over a decade had schizophrenia, mostly the negative symptoms, which includes things like emotional blunting, flat affect, problems with empathy and presents similarly as the autistic symptoms along the same lines. But this person was still compassionate and didn't make rude or callous comments, even if she didn't really understand how to respond at times. This person is very antisocial but still managed to learn how to politely discuss things with people.

Emotion is not the enemy of rational thinking. But I don't want to derail this thread.
Well, I have been diagnosed with Asperger when I was 12. So, I have no clue what empathy is. But I am learning. Trying really hard. Learning from my kids and husband.
For instance, I have learned that it is not empathic to report someone before it is clear what their motivations are.

Would you agree with that?

Ciao

- viole
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I have not seen any. That is why I am an atheist. :)
It is because of that movement that we exist.

i would take no notice of anything prefixed with "devine" also...

Atoms are recognised as neither dead or alive, some of them are the building blocks of life but in themselves are not life.

We don't usually say something is alive unless it can at least grow or reproduce or metabolize. While atoms can join together to form beings that do these things, individual atoms do not.
Q & A: Are atoms alive? | Department of Physics | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Perhaps. Or perhaps there is energy, and it is divine. And it belongs to the Universe, which is itself divine. As all things are. In my view.
I do not believe in anything being divine, therefore 'divine energy' is not for me. Being an atheist, I do not even like the word 'divine' which separates it from 'mundane'. I believe in non-duality.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Well, I have been diagnosed with Asperger when I was 12. So, I have no clue what empathy is. But I am learning. Trying really hard. Learning from my kids and husband.
For instance, I have learned that it is not empathic to report someone before it is clear what their motivations are.

Would you agree with that?

Ciao

- viole
Sure, but I'm not the one who reported you. If I did, I wouldn't still be replying to you. I would admit it, too.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Do you believe you will go to heaven when you die?
Depends on what is meant by "heaven". I tend to view the afterlife much like this life - there's many different "places" you can go. I believe most are reincarnated although they may go to various realms before hand, as a sort of cleansing. The most wicked end up obliterated (sort of consumed or recycled because they are parasites and spiritual dead ends), as I understand it. Eventually we all merge back into the Divine.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I'm not getting into that. Let's not assume genders. Could be a he, a they, an alien, a dragon. We have all types on this forum.
Would you have replied like that is I had said "himself", instead of "herself"?

Ciao

- viole
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
So many people believe that they will go to heaven when they die. You go to a funeral, and the relatives that come up to speak, or the preacher, will say that the person is in heaven now. I suppose it is easy to hear and comforting in a sense to believe that your loved ones are in heaven, but it's not the truth according to the Bible. And we should be men and women of truth. I believe the 10 commandments teach us this in the 9th commandment. Yet most people believe the Bible teaches that we go to heaven when we die. Even when reading the parable of the rich man and lazarus, it does not suggest that we go to heaven when we die as some assume. When we die, we are dead, and we rest there awaiting the resurrection. There is a first and second resurrection according to the Bible. The first resurrection is for when Yahshua our Savior returns and with it will be resurrected those who have died in the Messiah, or died in the faith (Revelation 20:6). The second resurrection is for after the 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth has ended and all the rest will be brought before the great, white throne judgment to be judged. At that time, there will be gnashing of teeth as the wicked is severed from the righteous and destroyed in Gehenna Fire.

Yahshua was different. He was not of this world, he was originally a heavenly being pre-existing with the Father. We are earthly beings. We were born on this earth and the scriptures tell us the meek shall inherit the earth, not heaven (Matthew 5:5).

Chr-stianity has really done a great deal of damage to the Bible by trying to comfort the masses. One can find comfort in the Bible. One does not need to invent ideas to make the message more palatable. If we die, we will rest in our lot and be resurrected. Those that are blessed to receive the first resurrection will rule in Yahweh's Kingdom on earth as kings and priests. The new Jerusalem will come forth out of heaven to this earth prepared for the people of Yahweh as we read in Revelation 21. You can also read 1 Corinthians 15 for some more information about the first resurrection.

Do you believe you will go to heaven when you die?
I know I will go to heaven. The scriptures are clear in revealing and clarifying that one who is saved by the Savior Jesus Christ goes to heaven.
I think the problem with understanding arises when the scriptures are not “rightly divided” .
(2 Timothy 2:15)
People who have not died will live on earth during the Millennial Kingdom, a time of peace when Christ rules from Jerusalem and then finally all the resurrected to eternal life will live forever in the new heaven and earth.
(Revelation 21)
 

Shakeel

Well-Known Member
I think the real issue is that people have ears that itch to hear certain reassurances
They should go to church.

As for the OP, it is because they don't talk about hell anymore. At least in protestant churches, as far as I know, hell does not practically even exist.
If they really did, they would jump with joy when diagnosed with terminal cancer.

Ciao

- viole
Not necessarily
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
So many people believe that they will go to heaven when they die. You go to a funeral, and the relatives that come up to speak, or the preacher, will say that the person is in heaven now. I suppose it is easy to hear and comforting in a sense to believe that your loved ones are in heaven, but it's not the truth according to the Bible. And we should be men and women of truth. I believe the 10 commandments teach us this in the 9th commandment. Yet most people believe the Bible teaches that we go to heaven when we die. Even when reading the parable of the rich man and lazarus, it does not suggest that we go to heaven when we die as some assume. When we die, we are dead, and we rest there awaiting the resurrection. There is a first and second resurrection according to the Bible. The first resurrection is for when Yahshua our Savior returns and with it will be resurrected those who have died in the Messiah, or died in the faith (Revelation 20:6). The second resurrection is for after the 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth has ended and all the rest will be brought before the great, white throne judgment to be judged. At that time, there will be gnashing of teeth as the wicked is severed from the righteous and destroyed in Gehenna Fire.

Yahshua was different. He was not of this world, he was originally a heavenly being pre-existing with the Father. We are earthly beings. We were born on this earth and the scriptures tell us the meek shall inherit the earth, not heaven (Matthew 5:5).

Chr-stianity has really done a great deal of damage to the Bible by trying to comfort the masses. One can find comfort in the Bible. One does not need to invent ideas to make the message more palatable. If we die, we will rest in our lot and be resurrected. Those that are blessed to receive the first resurrection will rule in Yahweh's Kingdom on earth as kings and priests. The new Jerusalem will come forth out of heaven to this earth prepared for the people of Yahweh as we read in Revelation 21. You can also read 1 Corinthians 15 for some more information about the first resurrection.

Do you believe you will go to heaven when you die?

In layman's terms, what is a heaven?
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
perhaps trying to convince people they will go to hell has done damage to the Bible

perhaps trying to convince people they must “wait” in a grave for one of two alleged resurrections has done damage to the Bible

perhaps trying to convince people that Jesus is going to return has done damage to the Bible

perhaps ALL the man made doctrines have done damage to the Bible

perhaps people who have ALL the answers should maybe ask the Lord to open their eyes

just perhaps??

now, to answer your question: why would I have to wait to die to go to heaven?

just wondering
Hi Jeremiah Ames. Good morning. How can believing in the Bible do damage to the Bible? If we research the Bible for truth, to determine true doctrine, we can't do damage to the Bible. We can only do damage to the Bible if we believe in lies and claim that the Bible supports those lies. The Word of Yahweh is the truth. And I don't have all the answers. We can always ask Yahweh for more wisdom so we know all mysteries. Paul said "And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." Love is paramount because if we love Yahweh and love our neighbor, we will be fulfilling the Word of Yahweh.

To respond to your question, Do you believe you go to heaven, and do so without dying first?
 
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