Your information is coming from Paul, and his supposed associate Luke. Who is Luke, and what did he actually see". According to Luke 1, he witnessed nothing, and his source had to be Paul with respect to the wilderness excursion. If some guy named Luke wrote Acts, there were two contravening accounts on the wilderness excursion. As for Galatians, which had Paul denigrating the "supposed" "pillars" of the church, Peter, John and James, well that would be Paul's side of the story. As for 2 Peter, that was written by some unknown writer, which would be a fraud on face value. As for why Paul was not outed, if you read Matthew 13, Paul a main tare, spreading the tare seed, the disciples/farm workers, were forbidden to touch the tares until the "end of the age". Well behold, we are at the end of the age, and Paul, the one who does lawlessness, and Peter, the "stumbling block" are being gathered out (Matthew 13:39-41).
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Where Did these Beliefs Come From?
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
Your information is coming from Paul, and his supposed associate Luke. Who is Luke, and what did he actually see". According to Luke 1, he witnessed nothing, and his source had to be Paul with respect to the wilderness excursion. If some guy named Luke wrote Acts, there were two contravening accounts on the wilderness excursion. As for Galatians, which had Paul denigrating the "supposed" "pillars" of the church, Peter, John and James, well that would be Paul's side of the story. As for 2 Peter, that was written by some unknown writer, which would be a fraud on face value. As for why Paul was not outed, if you read Matthew 13, Paul a main tare, spreading the tare seed, the disciples/farm workers, were forbidden to touch the tares until the "end of the age". Well behold, we are at the end of the age, and Paul, the one who does lawlessness, and Peter, the "stumbling block" are being gathered out (Matthew 13:39-41).
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Well, since you say we know nothing about Paul because of unreliable sources, then why do you badmouth Paul and call him a "false prophet" if there are no reliable sources? That's not even remotely logical.
Seems that the only source in reality that you are using is you.
Muffled
Jesus in me
On the contrary i believe there are a multitude of verses saying that Jesus is God in the flesh.
I believe some Christians are confused in that way but I am not. My Trinity is one God in three persons. It makes perfect sense to those who know how to reason instead of just repeating denominational nonsense.
Muffled
Jesus in me
John 19:30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit
John 14:28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
"Allah", is simply a take on the Aramaic word for God. The early Arabs worshipped gods, as Mohammad supposedly destroyed the "gods" in the Kaaba of Mecca. He also sent his fellow friend to destroy the earlier established Kaaba of Yemen. The original Kaaba, the holy of holies, a cubic structure, was in Jerusalem, in which the Byzantines were pushed out around 620 by Sadducee Jews from Persia, along with Iyas Ibn, the time of the beginning calendar of Islam. The 7th century Arabs of the west were most likely Arian Messianic, who didn't like the ideas of the Byzantine Trinity doctrine of Theodosius of 380 AD, and those of the Eastern (Persian area) were Zoroaster leaning, which is quite similar to "Christianity". The original writings of the dome of the rock is from an Arian Christian perspective, and the word "Mohammad", which means "blessed"/worth of praise, is a title and not a name, and within the context of the writing on the original wall of the dome of the rock, would describe Yeshua, Isa Ibn Maryam, and not Iyas Ibn Qabisah al-Ta'i, king of Hira, located in present day Iraq, who joined with the Jews to defeat the Persians, not Mecca. Iyas Ibn, king of Hira, was referred to Mohammad of the Tayaye (T'ai), the Tayaye being Arab Nomads of Iraq, not a non existent Mecca, center of the trading world. Mohammad is a made up character based on historical figures, Mecca was not on any trade route, and the earliest Quran parchments predates the supposed Mohammad's revelations, and is Jewish and Christian based, naming Isa ibn Maryam (Yeshua) as a prophet of God (chapter 3 & 9 ). Nothing of the 8th through 10th founding narratives of Islam is founded on actual reality, and would fare well if compared with Catholic cannon, which would include the canon of the NT. The reality of the Catholic narrative would fit in with the tare seed of Matthew 13, which is to come to an end at the "end of the age".
When you kneel to a statue and pray to it, you are worshipping that which can not hear, nor speak. (Psalm 115: 4-7).
The "Church", the Roman Catholic Church, is the product of the beast with two heads like a lamb, Constantine, per his 325 convened Nicene Council, and is pillared on the two heads like a lamb (Christlike), Peter and Paul, who deceives "those who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14). She is nothing more than a daughter of Babylon, and either one comes out of her (Revelation 18:4), or they receive of her "plagues".
People were often gathered to hear the gospel of the kingdom, but it wasn't before dawn. The kingdom is of power and spirit, and that is why the disciples healed the sick and raised the dead. Paul told his followers we shall not all "sleep"/die, but on the other hand, Paul and all his time stamped listeners are all dead. That would be a sign of a false prophet.
Paul told his time stamped listeners that we shall surely not all "sleep"/die. They are all dead. Kind of like a false prophecy, the marking of a false prophet.
The source used by Yeshua was the Law and the prophets. It states that if someone makes a false prophecy, they are a false prophet and not from God.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Again, let's tell the truth here.
1. Catholics do not consider Mary to be God.
2. Muslims do not worship Muhammad or the Quran.
Dude you need to LEARN about what these religions actually believe and stop misrepresenting them. Do the right thing.
Catholics consider Mary to be in heaven, whereas in truth she is in the grave. They kneel before her image and pray to the image which can neither hear, see, nor speak. She is considered the queen of heaven, as is the pagan goddess Astarte. As Astarte, she is treated as a god. The first commandment reads you shall have no other gods before me. She can not answer prayers, nor can she hear them. As with the pagans, there are many gods, but only one Jupiter (king of the gods/father of the gods). As with Astarte, Mary is treated as a lesser god, to be venerated and prayed too.
As for the Quran, which is a composite of writings, one of the writings says that Isa Ibn Maryan, Yeshua, can breath into a molded clay bird and bring it to life, such as when God breathed into the dust of the earth to create man. Yeshua was not the creator of heaven and earth, but the vehicle in which heaven and earth was created, that being the Word, which had a beginning, such as he was the alpha and came to eventually fulfill the Law and the prophets (Mt 5). Apparently Muhammad could not supposedly do the same, but seems to instead dabble with wearing women's clothes, and marrying young children. They consider this made up character, Muhammad as a prophet of God, yet his message more closely followed the teachings of the god of the earth, the ruler of the world, which is apparently the goal of Islam by way of the sword. On the other hand, the kingdom of God is based on the judgment from God, by way of his angels, with the surviving pagans being slayed by the sword from the mouth of the "Word of God" (Rev 19:13-14), which would be by the power and spirit of God.
As the Muhammad being in the Quran, Muhammad is a descriptive word meaning the praised one, and can apply to whomever you wish to lay it on. As the Quran names Isa Ibn Maryam, Yeshua, as a prophet of God, who speaks for God, he would be a better chose, than some mythical guy from a mythical place where supposedly Abraham and Solomon lived. The Muslims kind of mix up Mecca with Jerusalem. Whatever they teach holds no water, as is a good description of Mecca, save for a small well, in the 7th century.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
My post to you was certainly not an invitation for you to repeat your lies. Being in heaven doesn't mean they think she is God. YOu need to stop spreading misinformation. You know better now. You have no excuse. Your lies about Islam, I say the same thing. No religion, no matter how wrong they may be, deserves to be lied about.
I suggest you take some time in your life to actually what these religions say about themselves, find out what they actually teach. You will probably still reject them, and that's okay. But at least you won't be spreading untruths about them.
Can you tell me why the Almighty needed to come “in the flesh” when all that was required to redeem mankind was a “sinless life”....the exact equivalent of the sinless life that Adam took from his children...?
List your multitude of verse and let’s examine them in the light of others and see if this triune god is nothing more than a pagan adoption...?
The “last Adam” was not God, nor did he need to be. (1 Corinthians 15:45) If the Almighty came to earth, born of a sinful woman (who inherited Adamic sin like everyone else...Romans 5:12) then it would have been an extreme overpayment of the ransom price (Matthew 20:28)....like 60 quadrillion cans of bug spray to deal with one mosquito.
The God of Abraham was no trinity.....he was “one Yahweh”. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Trinities of gods are found throughout non-Christian religions from ancient times. “The church” adopted all manner of false beliefs and teachings, none of which originate from the Bible.
If you cannot identify them, then you haven’t read the Bible.
In the OP, none of those beliefs originate with any teaching of Jesus Christ, who did not teach or do anything that his Father did not instruct him to. He was a “servant” of his God and Father (Acts 3:13)....never once claiming to be God or soliciting worship for himself.
Do you understand the difference between the “soul” and the “spirit”? To quote John 19:30, it is apparent that you don’t.
The “soul” is the living breathing creature, used to describe both man and animals. We all breathe the same air and die the same death. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)
The “spirit” is the breath that keeps them all living. It was the “breath of life” that animated Adam after his creation, and when Jesus “gave up his spirit”, it means that he breathed his last breath.
John 14:28 has Jesus returning to his Father in heaven and clearly stating that his Father was not his equal, but his superior....”greater” than he was....did you miss that?
Oh dear.....Revelation was presented in symbols, so can you identify the “beast” and also the “false prophet” in this verse? Can you tell me what “the mark of the beast” is?...and what is its image that is worshipped?
The “lake of fire” is the same as “gehenna”.....it is a symbolic place where those who oppose Yahweh and his incoming kingdom will be cast for disposal....a place of eternal annihilation.
Remember where Jesus said “And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.” This is a place where those who are cast into gehenna are “destroyed”.
On the contrary....the Bible is a great divider, as it was designed to be....
Hebrews 4:12....
“For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.”
Two people can read God’s word....one gets the message and embraces it, another reads the same words and is repelled.....just as it was designed to do.
God does not need to judge us because we do it ourselves. Just by how we respond to the Bible’s message, it tells the Creator who we are, and whether we will make good citizens of his incoming Kingdom....something that will “come” ready or not.
Not even all those who identify as “Christians” will make the cut. (Matthew 7:21-23) It’s not about labels or empty claims....it’s about conduct and what motivates it. No one can fool God.
Qualifying, or disqualifying ourselves is what we do when we hear the Christian message and show our attitude towards God and our ability to simply follow his instructions without chafing. It’s all he has ever asked of his human creation since the beginning....a willingness to obey one who is so much wiser than ourselves and who has proven that free will always need limitations, otherwise it’s abuse would create chaos.....as we have seen, it always does.
There is a reason for the difficulties of this life, and it leads somewhere very important....”the real life” (the one we know that exists in our imagination) is the one we have never experienced, (we all want that idyllic existence but it always eludes us)
God promises to give it back to all, if only they accept the terms under which it is offered. It means doing what our first parents failed to do. As a result of choices made in this life, we can enjoy the life we were meant to have in the beginning. We couldn’t be told what disobedience means......we had to be shown where self-determination (disobeying God’s commands) leads us......which is nowhere good.
So seeing conflict even among Christians and their disagreement over scripture, is no surprise.
Moonjuice
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Repelled? I’m referring to Christians not agreeing with each other on the way they interpret scripture, despite being proclaimed followers or avid students of the Bible. Clearly you think your interpretation is correct and so do they. Until RF, I had no idea Christians existed that didn’t believe Jesus was god.
If you have any knowledge of the Bible, then you would be familiar with Jesus' parable of the "wheat and the weeds"? (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-42) This is exactly what Jesus predicted....a counterfeit Christianity planted by the devil, taking over the world and virtually choking out the "wheat".....but not completely. They are still here (in quite small numbers by comparison, Matthew 7:13-14) but completely different to the weeds in their beliefs, conduct and practices. The one thing that I could never understand when I was amongst that rabble, was why, when they all believed the same core doctrines, that they quibbled over minor things and became hopelessly fragmented.
I believe that Christendom is the "weeds" and all the infighting is confirmation that they have no guidance from the Master because of their adopting false beliefs and practices from the pagan nations. (Matthew 7:21-23) Judaism did exactly the same thing and history repeats because people do not learn the lessons from history.
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I would suppose, being taught catechism in a Catholic school, that I probably know more about Catholicism, than you. As for Islam, the Mohammad narrative was mostly written in the 9th and 10th century, whereas the Mohammad of Mecca died supposedly in 632 AD. The Mohammad of Mecca and Medina doesn't historically exist in the early 600s, and neither does Mecca as a fruit tree filled trading center and home of Abraham, and Solomon. The variants of the Quran, apart from the false narrative of the northern Islam writers, who were mostly slaves or children of slaves who lived 200 years after the death of Mohammad, the Quran different text did not exist at the time of Mohammad, nor did the type of markings which those documents contained. The Quran says that Allah would preserve the text. There are over 36 present day variants with the two main text being the Warsh and the Hafs, which have variations. Both the NT and Quran contain variations in words and with additions of words. The Roman church is not holy, Mary in her grave is not in a holy state of being, the pope is not holy, and the NT is not holy, but the NT is a combination of the the good seed, the message of the "son of man" (Mt 13:37) and the tare seed, which is the message of the devil (Mt 13:38).
As for Mary, the Catholic's call her the Holy Virgin, the mother of God. She is dead and buried, probably not in a holy state of being, and not the mother of God, who is eternal, and has no need for a mother. As for being the mother of Yeshua, he is the son of man who is to return as the son of man (Matthew 24:30). Your grasp on the actual teachings of Yeshua and what is written in the Quran seems to be not as encompassing as you think.
As for what religions say about themselves, well, that is different from any form of truth. Both Islam and the Roman church have lost the power to control the narrative. It is harder for Muslim's to cut the head off any alternate views, and the pope is just waiting around for death to sneak up on him. A story within the Roman church is that this will be the last pope, much in line with Isaiah 22:25.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Ever notice on how some mix together anti-Catholicism, anti-Semitism, and anti-Islam? IOW, that's the "my way or the highway" crowd that's historically led to so much suffering and death. As the old folk song says, "When we they ever learn; when will they ever learn?".
The Catholics are led by the false prophet Paul, whereas the Muslims are led by the apparently false prophet, supposedly named Mohammad of Mecca, and these followers would be addressed by Yeshua in Matthew 7:13-15, who would wind up on the road to "destruction". The Quran, message (he read) of Gabriel, said that Isa Ibn Maryam, Yeshua, was a messenger from God, yet the Muslims apparently don't know what his message was. The Jews were told to heed the message of the coming Messiah, but followed the path of Babylon, and sacrificed their children to Bel, which makes them a daughter of Babylon along side of the Christians, who followed the Sol Invictus sun god of the Roman emperor Constantine, who is the beast with two horns like a lamb. Deaths of the "few" by the many, includes the death by fire initiated by the Pope's Inquisition, and suffering by the "few", by the Muslims/many, was you get taxed to death if you do not declare Mohammad as Allah's messenger. The fact that the Muhammad of Mecca never historically existed is beside the point. The Jews will apparently be reassembled with Israel at the end of the age, and David will be their king (Ezekiel 37), whereas the nations will be "destroyed" (Jeremiah 30:11), Israel will only be chastened.