ALL have sinned.

lewisnotmiller · Jul 17, 2021

ChristineM said:
Sin is a religious concept and meaningless to those who don't believe gods exist. Us poor unguided people have to rely on our personal view of right and wrong and human morality.

You don't have to. You can all just submit to my view of right, wrong and human morality. I don't claim to be perfect, but...umm...
No, that's about it. I don't claim to be perfect.

lewisnotmiller · Jul 17, 2021

lostwanderingsoul said:
"Our personal view of right and wronf" is why there is so much crime and hate in the world today. The person robbing a liquor store does not think it is wrong. The person who hates someone because his race or religion is different does not think it is wrong. There must be one set of rules that apply to everyone and only God can make rules that are fair to everyone.

What was God's opinion about mandatory sentencing laws, and how they were applied differently in different states? What did He think about the variation in sentencing thresholds for Crack Cocaine vs Powder?

We can all agree that dealing drugs is wrong, but I'm not sure your God is helping us make effective policing policy, more's the pity.

WalterTrull · Jul 17, 2021

I think of 'sin' as 'mistake'. The original sin or mistake, is denying the father. Our father is in heaven. Believing our father is in the earth is a deadly mistake. Kinda like walking off a cliff is a deadly mistake. Luckily, believing doesn't make it so.

MikeF · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
The Hebrew scriptures portray God as Holy and without defect.

Deuteronomy 32:4. 'He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.'

The Greek New Testament tells us about Jesus Christ 'Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:' [1 Peter 2:22] The book of Hebrews adds that Jesus 'was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.'

The New Testament also tells us about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father and Son. 'But when the Comforter is come, whom I [Jesus] will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:'

We have, if one is to accept the words of scripture, a God who is Holy and perfect.

Does that not make us ALL'sinners'?

If we are all sinners, then critical reasoning in the absence of repentance and faith is not going to please God! Only faith will please God. As Paul said in Romans 14:23, 'whatsoever is not of faith is sin.'

Your thoughts, please.

I don't accept the words of any scripture and hence, there is no sin.

Ashoka · Jul 17, 2021

Sin, in the Abrahamic context, has no meaning to me.

stvdv · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
Are you suggesting you do nothing wrong?

I suggest to focus on "I am a child of God"

stvdv · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
Against whose standards is your behaviour to be judged?

Jesus taught me "thou shall not judge"

I follow Jesus

Ashoka · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
I wouldn't say that sin is a threat, more a realisation brought about by the perfection of true holiness.

King David described himself as a 'worm' when realising the glory of God. What does that make the rest of us?

How sad that your belief system asks you to hold such a low opinion of yourself. You are not a worm. No one is.

Redemptionsong said:
Are you suggesting you do nothing wrong? Against whose standards is your behaviour to be judged?

In my belief system, God is not a judge. That is what Karma is for.

ratiocinator · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
If we are all sinners...

...and god created us, that's a design flaw, not a choice.

Redemptionsong · Jul 17, 2021

ChristineM said:
As @Altfish said, it's a threat, become a christian take the load that comes with the title.

You cannot avoid death. The punishment that you consider a 'threat' is already upon you!

If the punishment for sin already comes to all, then freedom from sin, through God's mercy, should be viewed as salvation. The threat of punishment for sin was the very first of God's commandments. 'But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.' [Genesis 2:17]. Since this threat became a reality in Adam and Eve, all men (people) now die.

[IMO] God is perfect in essence, or Spirit, and that's just the way God is. We are sinners by inheritance, by birth, because we follow the ways of fallen flesh. We need to learn to walk by the Spirit (again); it does not come naturally to us. But first we have to recognise that we are governed by the selfishness of fallen flesh, and only once we repent of that can we be born again of the Spirit through faith in Christ.

Twilight Hue · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
The Hebrew scriptures portray God as Holy and without defect.

Deuteronomy 32:4. 'He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.'

The Greek New Testament tells us about Jesus Christ 'Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:' [1 Peter 2:22] The book of Hebrews adds that Jesus 'was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.'

The New Testament also tells us about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father and Son. 'But when the Comforter is come, whom I [Jesus] will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:'

We have, if one is to accept the words of scripture, a God who is Holy and perfect.

Does that not make us ALL'sinners'?

If we are all sinners, then critical reasoning in the absence of repentance and faith is not going to please God! Only faith will please God. As Paul said in Romans 14:23, 'whatsoever is not of faith is sin.'

Your thoughts, please.

The Bible means nothing to me as well as many others. There's simply no point in quoting something that isn't applicable.

It's just a waste of time and effort unless of course you happen to like the ancient mythology.

Besides Paul is a contradiction with early Christianity because people were told not to believe it if Jesus was here or there.

Paul completely ignored that and disobeyed that warning and Pauline Christianity was born a ******* child from the the orginal version.

A huge contradiction.

Altfish · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
I wouldn't say that sin is a threat, more a realisation brought about by the perfection of true holiness.

King David described himself as a 'worm' when realising the glory of God. What does that make the rest of us?

I obviously have not achieved true holiness, I have no reason to do so.

Not sure about KIng David, but the rest of us can get on with life and live with empathy, reciprocity and not worry about sin. Practice the Golden Rule

ratiocinator · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
The punishment that you consider a 'threat' is already upon you!

...The threat of punishment for sin was the very first of God's commandments. 'But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.' [Genesis 2:17]. Since this threat became a reality in Adam and Eve, all men (people) now die.

Which makes god fundamentally unjust. Nobody today had that choice and chose to disobey. Punising people for what other people did, is not good or just or fair.

Redemptionsong said:
[IMO] God is perfect in essence, or Spirit, and that's just the way God is. We are sinners by inheritance, by birth, because we follow the ways of fallen flesh.

The second sentence contradicts the first. If god was perfect (or even basically inclined towards fairness) sin wouldn't be heritable in its creation.

ChristineM · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
You cannot avoid death. The punishment that you consider a 'threat' is already upon you!

If the punishment for sin already comes to all, then freedom from sin, through God's mercy, should be viewed as salvation. The threat of punishment for sin was the very first of God's commandments. 'But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.' [Genesis 2:17]. Since this threat became a reality in Adam and Eve, all men (people) now die.

[IMO] God is perfect in essence, or Spirit, and that's just the way God is. We are sinners by inheritance, by birth, because we follow the ways of fallen flesh. We need to learn to walk by the Spirit (again); it does not come naturally to us. But first we have to recognise that we are governed by the selfishness of fallen flesh, and only once we repent of that can we be born again of the Spirit through faith in Christ.

The first law of thermodynamics tells me what happens after i die, no god required

What punishment for sin. There is punishment for breaking the law. Punishment for sin is sn empty threat, none the less it is still a threat

Yes, I've read the bible, no need to copy and paste it because its all you have.

To me god is a myth, so empty promises about redemption mean nothing. What does mean anything is humanity

Psalm23 · Jul 17, 2021

ChristineM said:
As @Altfish said, it's a threat, become a christian take the load that comes with the title.

What do you believe is the load that comes with the title?

ChristineM · Jul 17, 2021

Psalm23 said:
What do you believe is the load that comes with the title?

False hope of a better life after you die.

Redemptionsong · Jul 17, 2021

Windwalker said:
You said God is Holy, therefore we are sinners. That does not follow. If God is Holy, and God created us in his image, then so are we.

Are you equating "perfect" with Holy? What does "perfect" mean to you? Inerrant? Is that possible for any human being? Yet, doesn't scripture tell us to be perfect? Maybe perfect does not mean inerrant?

According to Jesus, if you walk in Love, you automatically fulfill all 613 commandments, not just 10.

Yes we are able to do that. Jesus did that, and he also told his followers "Go and sin no more". Was he sending them on a fool's-errand, setting them up to fail? Or did he believe they actually could? I side with the latter view.

According to Deuteronomy 32:4, God is perfect. This does not mean that His creations, Adam and Eve, having been given free will, were not capable of making the wrong choices.

The question I would like to ask you is, Can we walk in the love of Christ without the Holy Spirit as our guide?

sayak83 · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
The Hebrew scriptures portray God as Holy and without defect.

Deuteronomy 32:4. 'He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.'

The Greek New Testament tells us about Jesus Christ 'Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:' [1 Peter 2:22] The book of Hebrews adds that Jesus 'was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.'

The New Testament also tells us about the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father and Son. 'But when the Comforter is come, whom I [Jesus] will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:'

We have, if one is to accept the words of scripture, a God who is Holy and perfect.

Does that not make us ALL'sinners'?

If we are all sinners, then critical reasoning in the absence of repentance and faith is not going to please God! Only faith will please God. As Paul said in Romans 14:23, 'whatsoever is not of faith is sin.'

Your thoughts, please.

Don't care?

stvdv · Jul 17, 2021

Redemptionsong said:
King David described himself as a 'worm' when realising the glory of God.

What does that make the rest of us?

Incarnations of the Divine

My Scripture also adores the Divine, and the Saints sing the glory of the Divine, like below verse @Ashoka shows
हे दयालु, भक्त हमेशा आपकी महिमा गाते हैं। आपकी महानता का वर्णन वेद भी नहीं कर सकते। आप जैसा उदार कोई नहीं है।

My Master taught us to see the Greatness of God
AND
See the Greatness of "who you really are" too

When focusing on the negative you become negative
When focusing on the Divine you become Divine
As you think, so you become
Hence think (of the) Divine
Or do NOT think

Ashoka · Jul 17, 2021

stvdv said:
Incarnations of the Divine

My Scripture also adores the Divine, and the Saints sing the glory of the Divine, like below verse @Ashoka shows
हे दयालु, भक्त हमेशा आपकी महिमा गाते हैं। आपकी महानता का वर्णन वेद भी नहीं कर सकते। आप जैसा उदार कोई नहीं है।

My Master taught us to see the Greatness of God
AND
See the Greatness of "who you really are" too

When focusing on the negative you become negative
When focusing on the Divine you become Divine
As you think, so you become
Hence think (of the) Divine
Or don't think

Yes <3

Chidananda Rupa, Shivoham, Shivoham

ALL have sinned.

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