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Bahai's say: Quran is speaking about "the Gospel" which is the "New Testament"

Muffled

Jesus in me
Which verse?

171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

The literal Arabic says God his son. In Arabic the "is" is understood between two nouns. Some translations have in parentheses (may it never be) which is not in the Qu'ran and shows the translator actually knew what the text said.

All of that is the translator taking license and imposing his own beliefs on the translation.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

The literal Arabic says God his son. In Arabic the "is" is understood between two nouns. Some translations have in parentheses (may it never be) which is not in the Qu'ran and shows the translator actually knew what the text said.

All of that is the translator taking license and imposing his own beliefs on the translation.

If you dont know the language dont make such bogus statements. Be genuine. Mindnumbingly absurd.

Tell me. What does yakullahoo mean?
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Not relevant. Give it in a relevant thread.

Well, what about the supposedly oldest Quran, the Yemen Sana text. Apparently the original text was not burned in 632 or by Uthman in 652 AD, and was wiped clean instead, and the original version over written. Unfortunately, the old text can be brought to life by ultraviolet light, which shows the old version does not coincide with the newer version.
Your Islam traditions, all basically written in the 9th and 10 century, state that Muhammad was in the southern Mecca which was supposedly the residence of Abraham, and even Solomon. The Mecca described in the Quran did not exist in Arabia at that time, making your traditions, supporting a Muhammad of Arabia, mythical. Abraham lived near Jerusalem, and tried to sacrifice Isaac on the mount of Moriah (Marwah). The altar was above a hollow (cave), which has 4 prayer walls, pointed to places with respect to Abraham, Elijah, David, and Solomon. None pointed toward Mecca. Neither did the Dome of the rock, built in 972 nor the opposite mosque point towards Mecca. The Mecca, near Haran, according to history, was between Haran and Ur, the homes of Abraham and Lot, and was in the north and not in the south. As for Muslims, only about 15% can read Arabic, which apparently keeps them from earning brownie points by reading the Quran in Arabic. They are unable to compare the different Arabic text, which numbers today more than 30 variants. They rely on the false narratives of the Abbasids, and fail to realize that the original Muhammad, Ilyas, was the king of Hira, and traveled to Petra and Jerusalem after being sacked by his employer, the Persian king, later to come back and form a coalition with different clans, including the Jews, to fight the Persians. The Persians were fighting those who are now known as the Turks as well as being defeated by the Byzantines. A great opportunity to over power the Persians using the forces of others. This is the historical version, versus the myths of the Abbasids, mostly crafted in the early 8th century. Have we found the Original Muhammad? Mel thinks so! - YouTube
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Well, what about the supposedly oldest Quran, the Yemen Sana text. Apparently the original text was not burned in 632 or by Uthman in 652 AD, and was wiped clean instead, and the original version over written. Unfortunately, the old text can be brought to life by ultraviolet light, which shows the old version does not coincide with the newer version.
Your Islam traditions, all basically written in the 9th and 10 century, state that Muhammad was in the southern Mecca which was supposedly the residence of Abraham, and even Solomon. The Mecca described in the Quran did not exist in Arabia at that time, making your traditions, supporting a Muhammad of Arabia, mythical. Abraham lived near Jerusalem, and tried to sacrifice Isaac on the mount of Moriah (Marwah). The altar was above a hollow (cave), which has 4 prayer walls, pointed to places with respect to Abraham, Elijah, David, and Solomon. None pointed toward Mecca. Neither did the Dome of the rock, built in 972 nor the opposite mosque point towards Mecca. The Mecca, near Haran, according to history, was between Haran and Ur, the homes of Abraham and Lot, and was in the north and not in the south. As for Muslims, only about 15% can read Arabic, which apparently keeps them from earning brownie points by reading the Quran in Arabic. They are unable to compare the different Arabic text, which numbers today more than 30 variants. They rely on the false narratives of the Abbasids, and fail to realize that the original Muhammad, Ilyas, was the king of Hira, and traveled to Petra and Jerusalem after being sacked by his employer, the Persian king, later to come back and form a coalition with different clans, including the Jews, to fight the Persians. The Persians were fighting those who are now known as the Turks as well as being defeated by the Byzantines. A great opportunity to over power the Persians using the forces of others. This is the historical version, versus the myths of the Abbasids, mostly crafted in the early 8th century. Have we found the Original Muhammad? Mel thinks so! - YouTube

Irrelevant you see.
 

KerimF

Active Member
I believe one must distinguish between true Islam and true Judaism. Would you discount Isaiah 53 because it is Jewish? Would you discount the Qu'ran because it says God is His Son?

I guess, you know better than I that Jews and Muslims are supposed to obey a certain God's Law and observe certain religious rituals.

Jesus, as I understood his message, didn't bring me a law to obey or any ritual to observe.
But I also understand that most Christian who have heard of Jesus have their good reasons to understand that love which is revealed by Jesus, could be imposed on humans as a 'heavenly rule' and also be expressed by certain rituals of worship and praise. So you are right if we compare Judaism/Islam with the today’s ‘formal’ Christianity.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Tell me who taught you this arabic you're speaking of?

Was God your teacher? Be truthful and tell me who taught you?

I believe I borrowed a book out of the library to learn the Arabic. God taught me to understand what the Arabic said better than just the words.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
How have you found God in your life?
Deep contemplation from within my own being made me realize that God is in everything, both within us and around us.
And unconditional love has a lot to do with seeing God, not that I am able to see God as one being.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
If you dont know the language dont make such bogus statements. Be genuine. Mindnumbingly absurd.

Tell me. What does yakullahoo mean?[/QUOTE]

I don't have a clue. I saw it in a translated passage but it was not a word for word translation so it could have been any number of words.

I believe I make true statements. You have to show a word for word translation to show that it is different from what I said.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Deep contemplation from within my own being made me realize that God is in everything, both within us and around us.
And unconditional love has a lot to do with seeing God, not that I am able to see God as one being.

I believe that is not the same as having the Holy Spirit instruct you and in my case He speaks through me.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I believe that is not the same as having the Holy Spirit instruct you and in my case He speaks through me.
True, what you call holy spirit is in my understanding the wisdom a person who practice a spiritual teaching atain when he or she realize the vail they have, and lift it little by little.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I believe I borrowed a book out of the library to learn the Arabic. God taught me to understand what the Arabic said better than just the words.

Thats great. So what does Ara aythum min kaana indhallah mean? Please do explain with your divine knowledge.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I don't have a clue. I saw it in a translated passage but it was not a word for word translation so it could have been any number of words.

I believe I make true statements. You have to show a word for word translation to show that it is different from what I said.

But I thought you said that God has given you divine knowledge to understand the arabic language.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I guess, you know better than I that Jews and Muslims are supposed to obey a certain God's Law and observe certain religious rituals.

Jesus, as I understood his message, didn't bring me a law to obey or any ritual to observe.
But I also understand that most Christian who have heard of Jesus have their good reasons to understand that love which is revealed by Jesus, could be imposed on humans as a 'heavenly rule' and also be expressed by certain rituals of worship and praise. So you are right if we compare Judaism/Islam with the today’s ‘formal’ Christianity.

You are confusing the message of "Christianity", with the message of Yeshua. Yeshua told the young man that to enter into life, one must keep the commandments, and he listed the commandments with regard to loving your neighbor. If you choose to "murder", "steal", "commit adultery", "bear false witness", and not honor your father and mother", you can be assured that you will not "enter into life" (Matthew 19). That is why the world is full of zombies, the walking dead.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
True, what you call holy spirit is in my understanding the wisdom a person who practice a spiritual teaching atain when he or she realize the vail they have, and lift it little by little.

I believe your understanding is incorrect. God speaks directly to me and through me.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
But I thought you said that God has given you divine knowledge to understand the arabic language.

I hope I didn't misspeak. I believe God gave me the understanding of the verse not of Arabic. I had to study the Arabic to verify what God told me.
 
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