John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
. . . . Don't look at me. I'm asking you?
John
John
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Is the Tree of Life the Dead Stump of the Tree of Knowledge?
- Thread starter John D. Brey
- Start date
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Do you have a piece?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Inquiring minds want to know!
John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
. . . I need to know what it is to know if I have any of it? I suspect I do. Which is why this thread got started.
John
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
if humans ate from the tree of knowledge , why is it that they can't make their own tree of life ? Why worry about trying to get to something that adam could build out of the soil , if he merely knew what he could know , which is that he can understand any how
No, the ' tree of life ' ( see Revelation 22:2 ) is Not the 'tree of knowledge of good and bad'.
John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
. . . I suspect that that's what brit milah is all about. Which segues into the name of this thread.
John
Man can't direct his step according to Jeremiah 10:23; 17:9
Adam and Eve were 'locked' out of the Garden with its tree of life.
In other words, there was No longer any access to the tree of life.
Jesus came to undo all the damage sinners Satan and Adam brought upon humanity.
Through Jesus mankind will see the return of the ' tree of life ' on Earth according to Revelation 22:2.
This is a reason why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come so that Earth will become for us as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
Do you believe in the inerrant nature of scripture? Because in Genesis, the signature Hebrew text implies the tree of life is a singular tree; while in the passage you give, it implies there are trees of life on both sides of the river?
And fwiw, Genesis 22:2 speaks of the tree, or trees, of life. I don't see that it says the tree or trees of life don't grow out of the root, or dead branch, of the tree of knowledge?
The fact that Revelation 22:2 implies that the tree of life bares twelve manner of fruits might make a mystically oriented student think it's implying that the cross is the tree of life and that Jesus bore twelve different apostles as the fruit produced by the dead stump, or branch, whence he produced his fruit?
John
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McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Two separate trees, at least according to god:
Genesis 3:22 (KJV)
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Yes, in the Garden (which mankind was to expand world wide) there is mention of only one tree of life. Genesis 3:22-24
In the fulfillment of Genesis 3:15 (Jesus proving to be the promised seed aka Messiah) will undo all the damage done in Eden but also world wide, so to me that shows in some way there will be 'plural ' trees of life '.
None of which springs from that other tree, the tree of knowledge of good and bad.
Plural shows more than one tree in one garden, but many. And thoughts about Ezekiel 47:12___________
Then why would the cherubims need to protect it if it was a stump and had no fruit?
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
please
John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
. . . Shouldn't you give a verse that supports what you said? In other words, the verse you provided doesn't appear to support what you're seemingly quoting it to support?
John
John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
Great question. The ideas seems to be that all fruit comes from the tree of knowledge (as the only tree of the two that produces fruit) but that the fruit of that tree has a born-on date and an expiry date that can be extended indefinitely by observing and acknowledging the tree of life.
The cherubim are trying to hide, guard, veil, the tree of life, so that, as the text says, man not observe it and live forever.
I think I might have spied the tree of life and thus might live forever. Which is what this thread is all about. Me trying to discern if I'm delusional or the possessor of eternal life?
John
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McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Since I do not know how to dumb it down any further.....
John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
. . . I think they call that "dumbfounding"? Founding ones inability to give visible proof of their statement, on the invisible dumbness of their interlocutor.
John
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John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
. . . There's a mistake in the statement above. The text says that after the man eats from the tree of knowledge, only then do the gods appear to fear he might now take from the tree of life and live indefinitely. It seems like "eating" אכל (not "observing") the fruit from the tree of life leads to the extension of the expiry date?
Phallic worship (făl´Ĭk), worship of the reproductive powers of nature as symbolized by the male generative organ. Phallic symbols have been found by archaeological expeditions all over the world, and they are usually interpreted as an expression of the human desire for regeneration. Phallic worship in ancient Greece centered around Priapus (the son of Aphrodite) and the Orphic and Dionysiac cults. In Rome, the most important form of phallic worship was that of the cult of Cybele and Attis; prominent during the empire, this cult was notorious for its festive excesses and its yearly "Day of Blood," during which the frenzied participants wounded themselves with knives; self-inflicted castration, a prerequisite for admittance into the priest caste of this phallic cult, took place during the festival. In India, the deity Shiva was often represented by and worshiped as a phallic symbol called the lingam. Phallic worship has also been practiced among the Egyptians in the worship of Osiris; among the Japanese, who incorporated it into Shinto; and among the Native Americans, such as the Mandan, who had a phallic buffalo dance.
Encyclopedia.com
Encyclopedia.com
The essay the quotation above is stolen from notes that since Judaism's central religious ritual (foundational to the faith) has Jews gather around as the organ of regeneration is cut (brit milah) there appears to be an undeniable anthropological argument that Judaism is the last of the great ancient worshipers of the biological tree of life. Furthermore there's at least two concepts important to this thread of thought directly associated with the idea that brit milah guards some ancient truth that has fallen by the wayside for all but those who guard such things.
John
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John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
Thou shalt guard my covenant therefore, thou and thy seed after thee in their generations. And just between me and you, this is my covenant that ye shall guard, you and your seed after you: Every man among you will be circumcised. And this is how you will guard that reality: You shall cut the flesh of your original reproductive organ and that will be a token, emblem, or sign, of what the covenant between us is all about.
Genesis 17:9-11.
Genesis 17:9-11.
Though the Masoretes and their tradition fancy their guardianship of the covenant to be much more than mere guardianship, the naked (ketib) Hebrew consonants שמר ("guard") a tale dead men (keri) just don't tell. The naked consonants say the nation of Israel are the guardians" שמר of the tree of life ----and not necessarily the possessors or eaters, of that fine food. It's in their midst, no doubt, as recently pointed out in the exegesis of Isaiah 66:17; and yet there's reason to believe the royal banquet found on that tree is exported (Isaiah 66:19) and consumed, at least initially, outside the holy land, in the land of the pork-eaters and Nazarenes נצורים (Isaiah 65:4; 66:19).
Imagine that. The fruit of the tree of life being niddah, unclean, for those dwelling in Jerusalem, while it's clean as Isaiah's driven snow (Isaiah 1:18) for the porkers and Nazarenes outside the holy land:
And the beauty of His ornament is what he made for [their] pride, but they made there the despicable images of their abominations; therefore I made it niddah to them. And I shall give it into the hands of strangers for a prey, and to the wicked of the earth for plunder, and they will profane it.
Ezekiel 7:20.
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, a branch that will be lifted up as a banner in the midst of the Jews, although it will be the Gentiles who initially seek it out. . . For I'm sought of them that asked not for me; I'm found of them that sought me not. For I said behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name as Israel was. . . My hands were spread out like a swimmer, my hands broken and impaled in the process, spread out all day long before the rebels of Israel. . . the holier than thou crowd. . . So my servants instead declared my glory among the Gentiles.
Isaiah 11:10; 65:1-5; 66:19.
Ezekiel 7:20.
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, a branch that will be lifted up as a banner in the midst of the Jews, although it will be the Gentiles who initially seek it out. . . For I'm sought of them that asked not for me; I'm found of them that sought me not. For I said behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name as Israel was. . . My hands were spread out like a swimmer, my hands broken and impaled in the process, spread out all day long before the rebels of Israel. . . the holier than thou crowd. . . So my servants instead declared my glory among the Gentiles.
Isaiah 11:10; 65:1-5; 66:19.
John
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John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
Once it's established that Israel is the guardian of the covenant secrets, and that they don't necessarily know the secret concerning the secrets they're guarding, then the topic of the thread-title comes back into the cross-hairs as a cross-member in the understanding of the crux of the issue: What's the fruit of the tree of life? And does it come from the dead stump of the tree of knowledge?
John