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Dillema of Song of Songs and Mohammed

gnostic

The Lost One
Are you talking to me, Islam?

I am student of mythology, particularly that of creation myth. I have got a lot of literature on mythology. Translation of ancient and medieval literature. That's why I can debate with you on the Islam or with Christians/Jews on the Bible. Because of my years of reading such literature, I can recognise resemblance on certain thing, such as when to take it literally or metaphorically (such as distguishing narratives, parables, allegory, prophecies).

So I have read only some parts of the Qur'an that really interested me, particularly on the Qur'an version of the Creation and the fall of man and satan. There were also parts of Abraham that I was interested in. I have read scattered references, when people, such as yourself, quote passages in the Qur'an at this forum, or other forums, such as at islam.com.

So, no. I didn't read the Qur'an from cover to cover, because I don't have Qur'an in book form. Just electronic text form (html). If I have the whole book in my hand, I can read it from cover to cover. My problem is that I don't like reading large book on the computer screen, so that's why I have not read the whole Qur'an. Until I get the book on Qur'an, I will only be reading what pique my interests.

I rarely buy religious books. A couple of bibles I've got at home were given to me by my sister. I even got the Book of Mormon from her. She is the religious one in my family, not me. Since I am agnostic but interested in mythology and legend, I am normally interested in the mythological and legendary aspect of religion, such as the creation or flood legend, or even the legend of origin (founders, like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses).

The salvational or moral aspects within religious books, such as Jesus in the gospels or other NT writings, and Muhammad and the Qur'an interested me less.

Are you going to give me English translation of Qur'an?

If I ever get a copy of the Qur'an, which English translation would you recommend, Islam?
 

Islam

Member
Hey gnostic, if you dont mind me asking , what do agnostics believe in exactly?
Do you live in America? If you do I think I can find you a site where if you contact them they will ship you a free Quran (you dont have my word but hopefully they will). I reccomend Yusuf Ali (even though it has been critisized for some of the mistakes he made in his commentatory) and or Pikthals translation (maybe I spelled his name wrong but its something like that), I like both, I use both, but of course Im Arabic so I use the Arabic one.
Btw you should listen to the Quran being recited, it is amazing, very relaxing. Heres some links with English subtitles of course, I know ppl who arent even Muslims but just love listening to it:
this is a recitation by a I think 10 year boy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FURNQf3BtFE

This is another good one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byC_rnFx29A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0z_X26qxcU

plz tell me what u think
 

gnostic

The Lost One
islam said:
Do you live in America?
No, I'm from Australia. That's why I written "Down Under" as my location in my profile box.
If you do I think I can find you a site where if you contact them they will ship you a free Quran (you dont have my word but hopefully they will).
:(


I reccomend Yusuf Ali (even though it has been critisized for some of the mistakes he made in his commentatory) and or Pikthals translation (maybe I spelled his name wrong but its something like that), I like both, I use both, but of course Im Arabic so I use the Arabic one.
A Qur'an with good (modern) footnotes or annotation would be helpful to understanding the Qur'an. When I do look in the Qur'an I sometimes struggle to understand what they meant at times. I have the same problem with some stuff on the Bible, like the King James Version, that's why I found myself the latest translation on the Tanakh, when I need to look up something in the OT bible.

Footnotes are always helpful (sometimes not).
 

Islam

Member
Well then the Yusuf Ali is as I have herd better for you because of its footnotes =) There also is one in Australian I think so .. Im pretty sure u can find it on amazon insha Allag (God willing) if u have any trouble or neeed anything Pm me :)
 

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
Islam said:
Well then the Yusuf Ali is as I have herd better for you because of its footnotes =) There also is one in Australian I think so .. Im pretty sure u can find it on amazon insha Allag (God willing) if u have any trouble or neeed anything Pm me :)
Strewth, theres even one in Australian, i just gotta read that mate. I hope its in the Australian venecular.
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
I prefer not to enter such discussions, and I'm here to tell ''Islam'' not to be involved much into this...

I believe Mohammed (pbuh) was mentiond in the Bible, whether they believe or not, evidances are many, but they will always deny and giving you opposite claims..and thus reaching no where with discussion...
I have even much evidances than those, which are too obvious concerning the prophet...

moreover, remember the recent version of Bibles are not considerd references for us, thus you need to get many proofs to prove your point...and they will still argue you
 

TrubbleMaker

New Member
Islam said:
Well then the Yusuf Ali is as I have herd better for you because of its footnotes =) There also is one in Australian I think so .. Im pretty sure u can find it on amazon insha Allag (God willing) if u have any trouble or neeed anything Pm me :)

um... er... one in Australian ALSO??? I wasn't aware that Australians spoke a different language...:rainbow1:
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Einstein said:
I believe Mohammed (pbuh) was mentiond in the Bible, whether they believe or not, evidances are many, but they will always deny and giving you opposite claims..and thus reaching no where with discussion...
I have even much evidances than those, which are too obvious concerning the prophet...
Evidences? :yes:

Proof? :no:

Evidences doesn't indicate that it is proof, Einstein. You should know that since, you're the famous Dr Albert Einstein. :D

Proof needs more than just evidences. It needs to be proven, through rigorous validations.

I can easily disprove most of the evidences I have seen so far, in regarding to Muhummad being in any book of the Tanakh/Bible, because most of the evidences are based solely on one's (Muslim) interpretation on small snippet of passages. Read the whole passage in, and people can see that you have taken the small passage out of context.

You would only have real definite proof, if Muhammad's name is actually stamped on it. And if the prophets really wrote that books, then it should have been a problem to give clear reference to Muhammad's name.

moreover, remember the recent version of Bibles are not considerd references for us, thus you need to get many proofs to prove your point...and they will still argue you
That's a matter of perspective, Einstein.

If I brought proof before you or disproven your evidence or theories or interpretation, I think you would still argue with me regardless if I am right, wouldn't you?
 

Islam

Member
You would only have real definite proof, if Muhammad's name is actually stamped on it.

Song of songs means Shir hashirim. It could also be Song of Hashirim, meaning someone who goes by the name of Hashir since im is a plural of respect.

"Abu Musa al Ash`ari reported that Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) mentioned many names of his and said, 'I am Mohammad, Ahmad. Muqaffi, Hashir, the Prophet of
Repentance, and the Prophet of Mercy." [Sahih Muslim, 30:5813]
 
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