If I were to make a list of the top 10 reasons why I lost all faith in the Christian narrative, I think the fundamental “fall of man & need for salvation” concept would be #1. Could this be the most immoral religious idea still in practice today? Having lived it, loved it, felt it, shared it for years, it’s strange to have to admit, I think it might be.
Well, put like that I can see why you have rejected it. That seems to be the way you were taught in Christendom.....but I see the scenario through a very different lens....if I may explain....
“God creates the first man and woman.”
Yes but why? What was his purpose in creating intelligent beings, who alone out of all of earth’s living creatures, were given God’s moral attributes and a superior intelligence? What was their assignment, apart from having lotsa kids?
“God gives two commands; multiply the earth (incest is required, since your children will need to have sex with each other) and do not eat fruit from a particular tree.”
Again....what was odd about those two commands?
There was no such thing as incest back then. They were perfect, sinless creatures who had no personal knowledge of, or personal acquaintance with evil, so their innocence involved no incest because such a concept did not yet exist. Only with a knowledge of evil did its application to all things become clear. In a world of equal opposites, this was the one opposite that God never wanted his children to know or experience. Does that make him a bad parent?
“The tree of the knowledge of good and evil” represented something important....because God did not equip the humans to deal with evil, he would decide those things for his children, thereby eliminating any cause for harm or fear. Only good would result from obedience to his very reasonable commands. Evil would not be part of human existence as long as they followed his direction.
Was that a loving provision or was he just trying to be the fun police?
What a great start he gave them...only to have it thrown back in his face.
"God allows an evil fallen angel (in the form of a talking serpent ) to trick humans into breaking the fruit eating rule. The only rule. As a result, all future humans are born with a natural instinct to disobey god (sin)."
Free will is the possession of all God's intelligent creatures. All are 'made in his image and likeness' so that they understand the reasons for why he implements rules of behavior. They are not programmed robots, or like animals that only operate by instinct. These creatures, both human and angelic, were to serve God's interests in his overall purpose for creation. They were to be part of his team and theoretically it would have been ideal. But free will was not entirely free.....otherwise it could be a curse instead of a blessing.
To abuse free will (choose to disobey) carried the death penalty, so the three original rebels could have been put to death on the spot....so why didn't God just take them out and start again?
What was to prevent another free willed "son of God" from doing the very same thing if God did not demonstrate in real terms what independence from him would mean? He understood that satan never challenged his power....he only challenged his right to set the rules (his sovereignty) and he questioned his motives in withholding certain knowledge from them.
The devil targeted the woman as the 'newbie' because satan was there in Eden as an appointed guardian. He observed all that was happening and apparently got to envying the worship that these lower creatures would give to their God.....he entertained ideas of becoming a "god" himself, but he never had lesser beings who could see him that way......until now.
By getting the woman to disobey her God, he forced the man to divide his loyalties...divide and conquer!.....the devil had won.....but not forever. God would use this rebellion as the greatest object lesson in history. Allowing the devil to rule the world, and the human race to experience what that meant in obeying the god that they chose.
God would not have to test mankind now....the devil would do it for him. Each one would choose the god who gave them what they wanted.
"God chooses to punish them, their children, their grandchildren. In fact, every human born from that point on. Sparing the evil talking snake that caused it all."
Does he? When implementing the death penalty, God never specified how death would come....and should it have made any difference anyway? Disobedience was disobedience...the penalty was set. It turns out that failure to be able to access the "tree of life" (which was the other tree in the garden, that gave them the ability to live forever) along with the gravity of now having the weight of a full knowledge of evil (and how it would impact their future lives) was reinforced by an eviction from their paradise home and out into an untamed wilderness. The ground was cursed and the full consequences for their actions would dawn on them as the change in their lives was now opposite to what they had known.......and within one generation, the first murder was committed. Such was the power of sin.
God did not "choose" to punish innocent people. These both knew full well the penalty before they took the action. Neither of them was burdened with sin, so there was no excuse, and no basis upon which to forgive them.
"God changes his mind thousands of years later. He decides that he wants to give humans a chance to save themselves from his punishment, which they deserve, because our ancestors broke the fruit eating rule, and live for all of eternity in heaven with him."
Really? Right there at the outset, God implemented a way to return to him by delivering the Bible's first prophesy.
Genesis 3:15 was at first a mystery, because the players in this prophesy were not clearly identified....but in time, as the God's purpose unfolded, things became clearer....like the light of day gets brighter after sunrise. (Proverbs 4:18)
Humans, who were born in sin through no fault on their part, were always part of God's purpose to bring us back to where we started. The first rebels paid with their lives for what they did and will never be seen again.
But the devil was allowed to remain to continue testing the rest of humanity as to their obedience to God's commands. He provided a way to forgive them of the sins they committed, as long as they were repentant. He was more concerned with their ability to obey his commands....not because they were scared to disobey him, but because they really wanted to.....heartfelt, you know?
"Rather than forgiving us, he decides the best way to offer salvation is to send himself to earth in human form (Jesus), then allow himself to be brutally, yet temporarily murdered. 3 days later, he came back to life and went back to heaven. This barbaric human sacrifice of himself, somehow allows himself to forgive us of the rules we break, based on the rule breaking nature we are born with."
Nope....that is a very warped way to explain it. What he did was implement a solution called redemption.
In order to become a redeemer Jesus had to be the exact equivalent of Adam.....he did not have to be God because God is immortal and he cannot die. God was never required to come to earth as a mere human. The one "sent by God" had to give his perfect sinless life in exchange for the perfect life that Adam lost for his children. That was the redemption price to balance the scales of God's perfect justice...."eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life"...
"If you can be convinced this has happened, with nothing more than hearsay to go by, this vicarious redemption can save you from his punishment. If not, you will not be saved. It doesn’t matter what kind of person you are, what kind of honorable life you live, or how well you treat other humans or animals."
The only ones who are punished are those who fail to obey the instructions of the Creator. If you have a job and you value your employment, try disobeying your boss and see how long you keep your job....why should God demand anything less? The reward is priceless....and no one could have a better boss.
"Meanwhile…child rapists, murderers, and the worst scum of the earth can live forever in paradise with Jesus as well, earning salvation by simply believing the story and asking for forgiveness for all the child rape and murder."
Where on earth did that come from? The Bible says that no one who genuinely repents will have their sin held against them....so make up your mind....is he too lenient or too strict? Which is it? If sin is in all of us, why should he hold it against us when its not our fault? If we are truly repentant, and we demonstrate that to the one who reads hearts not just words, then he will save those who obey him....no matter how "good" you are, the first rule is to Love God first...then to love your neighbor as yourself. If you can't carry out the first one, the second one just makes you a good humanitarian. God is looking for those who can simply do as he instructs them. Isn't that what every parent wants from their children?
"BTW, He loves you, that is why he is offering you this chance. Take it, or die."
BTW he loves you enough to tell you how to avoid becoming redundant in his future plans....the ball is in our court not God's.
"Indoctrination is powerful! It’s not hard to come up with a creative interpretation that tells the same story in a way that makes you feel happy about this offer. It’s a wonderful gift to be born into these circumstances where he offers to save you from his punishment. He loves you, he’ll protect you in this life, and will reward you with eternal life in paradise after you die."
Nope.....the reward comes as a natural consequence of knowing God and coming into a relationship with him. But if you don't want that...its OK When you choose the path, you choose the destination. God is not responsible for where we end up...we are. (Matthew 7:13-14)
If I wasn’t born in a Christian home, with a Christian family, attending a Christian school, surrounded by Christian friends, I’m convinced that an unbiased look at this basic concept could have led me to believe this is nothing more than a cult of human sacrifice, born from a cult of barbaric animal sacrifice. Not so easy to see from the inside.
If you were raised with those beliefs then I wouldn't blame you. I left the church system for similar reasons, but I didn't blame God for what idiot humans did. I found the people who wanted to know the truth and were then not afraid to promote it. It doesn't make us popular....(John 15:18-21)
Can an idea like vicarious redemption be moral? I’m not convinced.
The only person who can convince you is you.....the truth is out there for anyone who wants it....we just have to find it. As Jesus said...
"you will know the truth and the truth will set you free"....
Sorry for the length of this.....but you did ask....
Remember that God is afraid that they will also eat from the tree of life and become like him and live forever.
