John 14:6

Trailblazer · Jun 23, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
Trailblazer thankyou for your post...
Only God is perfect; Only God can be sinless! Jesus was sinless because he was God.. Made Flesh!

Trailblazer if Adam was not created sinless then you could accuse God of not being perfect! Adam freely.. With free choice decided to sin! Adams decision to sin is how death entered into God' perfect creation! The wages of sin is death! NO ONE....
Trailblazer no one could be born prefect because all men were born corrupted by Adam' sin; Adam corrupted God' perfection! Man needed another perfect man born to pay for the sin of the first perfect man. We were stuck between a rock and a hard spot! God came to our rescue; God became part of his own creation! Jesus came as a man so he could die as a man! CAN'T...

As a Baha’i I do not believe that Adam and Eve were real people who once lived in the Garden of Eden.

I believe that the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory, not a true story. I believe that the story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise is a symbol. The story contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of many explanations.

I believe that there was a real man called Adam and that He was the first Prophet of the Adamic Cycle of religion. I also believe we inherited the sins of Adam, but not because he ate an apple from a tree. This is how I believe the descendants of Adam inherited the sins of Adam:

The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of God to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.

The full explanation of what I believe about the allegory is in this chapter: 30: ADAM AND EVE

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Baha’is do not believe in original sin, that sin was inherited from Adam and Eve, so there is no need for redemption from original sin. Baha’is believe that man was born good but has a lower material nature that has the propensity to sin. One possible meaning of the serpent in the Adam and Eve story is attachment to the human world, or the material world, as opposed to God and the spiritual world. When Adam was born and entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the spiritual world, in the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil... This attachment to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in our midst and continues and endures... It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and their exalted position.

Dogknox20 said:
Trailblazer can't die as a man if first your are not born as a man! Jesus died sinless he popped up out of the grave as a cork might rise up in a pool of water... The wages of sin is death, Jesus was without sin so death could NOT hold him in the grave!

What we have to do now is get our sorry ssa' immersed into the risen, resurrected body of Jesus! NO ONE...

As a Baha’i I do not believe that the body of Jesus rose from the grave.

23: THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

Question.—What is the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?

Answer.—The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things......

Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.” Some Answered Questions, p. 104

Dogknox20 said:
Trailblazer no one can die twice, no one can die a second time! Jesus has been there and done that! You can't even kill a stinking no good for nut-in mangy dog twice; to each is allotted one death no more! Jesus rose from death never to die again.. IF..
if you are baptized (immersed) into the holy risen body of Jesus then you also will never die, you will live for eternity with Jesus!

With all due respect, as I said above, I do not believe that Jesus ever rose from the grave. I believe those were just stories that men wrote. I also do not believe that the resurrection has ANYTHING to do with how one gains eternal life. Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross so we could have eternal life. No resurrection was ever necessary, and that is why it never happened.

Bree · Jun 23, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Yet what you are saying is that there is only one true religion and that is Christianity.
What I am saying is that everyone could come together and be part of one religion.

Yes i believe that this is true also. The scriptures say this will happen through the Messiah/Christ Jesus ....it does not say it will happen thru Bahullah

Isaiah 2: 1 This is what Isaiah the son of Aʹmoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:+
2 In the final part of the days,*The mountain of the house of Jehovah
Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,+
And it will be raised up above the hills,And to it all the nations will stream.+
3 And many peoples will go and say:“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah,
To the house of the God of Jacob.+He will instruct us about his ways,
And we will walk in his paths.”For law* will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.+
4 He will render judgment among the nations
And set matters straight* respecting many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
And their spears into pruning shears.+
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
Nor will they learn war anymore.+

Trailblazer · Jun 23, 2021

Bree said:
Yes i believe that this is true also. The scriptures say this will happen through the Messiah/Christ Jesus ....it does not say it will happen thru Bahullah

Isaiah 2: 1 This is what Isaiah the son of Aʹmoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:+
2 In the final part of the days,*The mountain of the house of Jehovah
Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,+
And it will be raised up above the hills,And to it all the nations will stream.+
3 And many peoples will go and say:“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah,
To the house of the God of Jacob.+He will instruct us about his ways,
And we will walk in his paths.”For law* will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.+
4 He will render judgment among the nations
And set matters straight* respecting many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
And their spears into pruning shears.+
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
Nor will they learn war anymore.+

Please show me any scriptures that say this will happen through Jesus Christ.
This cannot be fulfilled through Jesus Christ because Jesus said He was no more in the world and His work was finished here and that His kingdom is not of this world:

(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)

2 In the final part of the days,*The mountain of the house of Jehovah
Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,+
And it will be raised up above the hills,And to it all the nations will stream.+

This prophecy has already been fulfilled by the coming of Baha'u'llah. The remainder of the prophecy will be fulfilled during the messianic age, which will last about 1000 years.

Isaiah prophesied that the Plain of Sharon and the holy mountain, Carmel, would both be centres for the light and presence of the ‘Glory of the Lord’ in the last days. He said:

“The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.” (Isaiah 35:1).

“It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.” (Isaiah 35:2).

“And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.” (Isaiah 35:10).

Again in the chapter preceding the one in which he, Isaiah, promises that God will raise up a ‘righteous man from the East’, he foretells:

“And the Glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of God hath spoken it.” (Isaiah 40:5).

"In that same year (1890) Bahá’u’lláh’s tent, the “Tabernacle of Glory,” was raised on Mt. Carmel, “the Hill of God and His Vineyard,” the home of Elijah, extolled by Isaiah as the “mountain of the Lord,” to which “all nations shall flow.” Four times He visited Haifa, His last visit being no less than three months long. In the course of one of these visits, when His tent was pitched in the vicinity of the Carmelite Monastery, He, the “Lord of the Vineyard,” revealed the Tablet of Carmel, remarkable for its allusions and prophecies. On another occasion He pointed out Himself to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, as He stood on the slopes of that mountain, the site which was to serve as the permanent resting-place of the Báb, and on which a befitting mausoleum was later to be erected." (God Passes By, p. 194)

From: William Sears, Thief in the Night

The Baha’i World Centre is on Mount Carmel...

Trailblazer · Jun 23, 2021

Bree said:
God is not a God of chaos...he does everything orderly. He does not contradict himself im sure you'd agree. So if the teaching of one prophet contradicts the teachings of another we should not assume that they are doing God bidding. God does not contradict himself.

The beliefs of mainstream Christianity contradict the beliefs of Baha'is because mainstream Christians have strayed far from what Jesus actually taught.

However, the teachings of Baha'u'llah do not contradict the teachings of Jesus at all. There are some new teachings as would be expected if God sent a new Messenger, but there is nothing contradictory. I can cite some examples if you'd like. I already created a Word document to demonstrate how that are similar.

Bree · Jun 23, 2021

Trailblazer said:
The beliefs of mainstream Christianity contradict the beliefs of Baha'is because mainstream Christians have strayed far from what Jesus actually taught.

However, the teachings of Baha'u'llah do not contradict the teachings of Jesus at all. There are some new teachings as would be expected if God sent a new Messenger, but there is nothing contradictory. I can cite some examples if you'd like. I already created a Word document to demonstrate how that are similar.

that would be great if you are happy to do so... what would you say are his basic teachings about God, the World of mankind and what does our future hold?

Trailblazer · Jun 23, 2021

Bree said:
that would be great if you are happy to do so... what would you say are his basic teachings about God, the World of mankind and what does our future hold?

Well, that covers a lot of territory, so you would have to be a bit more specific. I can answer any specific questions you have.

As far as the future goes there is much written about it since the Revelation of Baha'u'llah was for the present age into the future.

The Promised Day Is Come is a book-length letter written by the head of the Baháʼí Faith in the first half of the 20th century, Shoghi Effendi. It was dated March 1941, and was written for the Baháʼís of the West. Wikipedia

These three chapters will give you a good idea of what we see for the future of humanity on this planet.

God’s Purpose
The Great Age to Come
Religion and Social Evolution

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When I said "teachings" I was referring to spiritual teachings and the examples I have of similar teachings are below.

Below is are some New Testament verses and Writings of Baha'u'llah along some themes that I believe are of the utmost importance – faith, seeking God, denial of self, detachment from the world, where our treasures are, reliance upon of God, and heaven. Please note how Jesus and Baha’u’llah are saying essentially the same things, since these are eternal spiritual truths.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

“If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen… ” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71

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Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

“Say: Deliver your souls, O people, from the bondage of self, and purify them from all attachment to anything besides Me. Remembrance of Me cleanseth all things from defilement, could ye but perceive it. Say: Were all created things to be entirely divested of the veil of worldly vanity and desire, the Hand of God would in this Day clothe them, one and all, with the robe “He doeth whatsoever He willeth in the kingdom of creation,” that thereby the sign of His sovereignty might be manifested in all things. Exalted then be He, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Almighty, the Supreme Protector, the All-Glorious, the Most Powerful.”
Gleanings, pp. 294-295

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John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

“The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion.” Gleanings, pp. 328-329

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Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

“The peoples of the world are fast asleep. Were they to wake from their slumber, they would hasten with eagerness unto God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. They would cast away everything they possess, be it all the treasures of the earth, that their Lord may remember them to the extent of addressing to them but one word.” Gleanings, p. 137

“Place not thy reliance on thy treasures. Put thy whole confidence in the grace of God, thy Lord. Let Him be thy trust in whatever thou doest, and be of them that have submitted themselves to His Will. Let Him be thy helper and enrich thyself with His treasures, for with Him are the treasuries of the heavens and of the earth.” Gleanings, pp.234-235

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Matthew 7:24-27 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

“For every one of you his paramount duty is to choose for himself that on which no other may infringe and none usurp from him. Such a thing—and to this the Almighty is My witness—is the love of God, could ye but perceive it.

Build ye for yourselves such houses as the rain and floods can never destroy, which shall protect you from the changes and chances of this life. This is the instruction of Him Whom the world hath wronged and forsaken.” Gleanings, p. 261

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John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329

Bree · Jun 23, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Well, that covers a lot of territory, so you would have to be a bit more specific. I can answer any specific questions you have.

As far as the future goes there is much written about it since the Revelation of Baha'u'llah was for the present age into the future.

The Promised Day Is Come is a book-length letter written by the head of the Baháʼí Faith in the first half of the 20th century, Shoghi Effendi. It was dated March 1941, and was written for the Baháʼís of the West. Wikipedia

These three chapters will give you a good idea of what we see for the future of humanity on this planet.

God’s Purpose
The Great Age to Come
Religion and Social Evolution

I see that many of the things he speaks of are similar to what we find in the bible. '

But i would just like to ask you about what is written in the 'Religion and Social Evolution' section.
I agree that the whole world of mankind will become united, this is something the bible tells us God will accomplish and i believe it most certainly will be accomplished.

However, i just want to ask you about this:

This is the stage which the world is now approaching, the stage of world unity, which, as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá assures us, will, in this century, be securely established.

When was this written? Which century is it referring to as the time when the world will become united as one?

Trailblazer · Jun 23, 2021

Bree said:
I see that many of the things he speaks of are similar to what we find in the bible. '

But i would just like to ask you about what is written in the 'Religion and Social Evolution' section.
I agree that the whole world of mankind will become united, this is something the bible tells us God will accomplish and i believe it most certainly will be accomplished.

However, i just want to ask you about this:

This is the stage which the world is now approaching, the stage of world unity, which, as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá assures us, will, in this century, be securely established.

When was this written? Which century is it referring to as the time when the world will become united as one?

"This is the stage which the world is now approaching, the stage of world unity, which, as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá assures us, will, in this century, be securely established. “The Tongue of Grandeur,” Bahá’u’lláh Himself affirms, “hath … in the Day of His Manifestation proclaimed: ‘It is not his to boast who loveth his country, but it is his who loveth the world.’” “Through the power,” He adds, “released by these exalted words He hath lent a fresh impulse, and set a new direction, to the birds of men’s hearts, and hath obliterated every trace of restriction and limitation from God’s Holy Book.”"

What Abdu'l-Baha wrote about "this century" has been commonly misconstrued, because the translation from Arabic into English was incorrect. It should have been translated as "this age" because that is what it refers to. This age is the messianic age which will last no less than 1000 years (from 1852 AD -- 2852 AD). According to my understanding, we are in the Golden Age, as referred to in the passage below and as appears on the outline below, but we are only in the very beginning of that age. That is why the passage below says "Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark." (Please bear in mind that was written 80 years ago and a lot has happened in the Baha'i communities all over the world since that time.)

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it............” The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

God’s Purpose

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I do not want to confuse you further but below is something I wrote up about the Bible prophecies and Cycles of religion.

Prophecies fulfilled and Cycles of religion

There are two classifications of Bible prophecies:

1. Prophecies that were fulfilled by the COMING of Baha'u'llah (what happened before He appeared, what happened while He was alive on earth, and what happened during the first years after he died.)

All these prophecies were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah or as the result of His coming.

2. Prophecies that will be fulfilled during the Messianic Age, which includes the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah but could extend beyond that. The Dispensation of Baha'u'llah will last no less than 1000 years (1863-2863 AD), but it could last longer. It will last until another Messenger of God appears, and that could happen any time after 2863 AD but not any sooner.

There have been various Universal Cycles of religion since mankind was created. Within each Cycle there were many different Prophets and religions. The Universal Cycles that preceded Adam are too remote in history to know anything about. The Cycle of religion that began with Adam and culminated with Muhammad is called the Adamic Cycle, or the Prophetic Cycle, named as such because it was the Age of Prophecy.

Muhammad was called the Seal of the Prophets because He was the last prophet in the Adamic Cycle and thus He sealed off the Adamic Cycle. In 1844 the Bab ushered in a new Cycle of religion called the Age of Fulfillment. All the “new age” movements and all the scientific discoveries we have seen since the last century are the result of the inception of this new Cycle. We are living in a new age of mankind.

As you can see on the outline below, the present Universal Cycle of religion includes the Adamic Cycle (Prophetic Cycle) and the Baha’i Cycle (Cycle of Fulfillment). The Baha’i Cycle will last no less than 500,000 years and all the Messengers of God (Manifestations of God) that appear during the cycle will be under the shadow of Baha'u'llah.

TABLE: BAHA'I SACRED HISTORY

I. PREVIOUS UNIVERSAL CYCLES - of which no trace remains

II. PRESENT UNIVERSAL CYCLE

· A. ADAMIC CYCLE, CYCLE OF PROPHECY - lasted approximately 6,000 years

1. Adam 1. Indian religious figures
2. Noah - Krishna
3. Abraham
4. Moses 2. Zoroaster
5. Jesus 3. Buddha
6. Muhammad
+ Other unknown or unspecified prophets

· B. BAHA'I CYCLE, CYCLE OF FULFILLMENT - to last 500,000 years

1. The Bab
2. Bahá'u'lláh - Universal Manifestation for this Universal Cycle

a. Heroic, Primitive, or Apostolic Age - 1844-1921 (or 1932 - the death of Bahiyyih Khanum)

i. Ministry of the Bab (1844-53)
ii. Ministry of Bahá'u'lláh (1853-92)
iii. Ministry of `Abdu'l-Bahá (1892-1921)

b. Formative, Transitional, or Iron Age - 1921 -

i. First Epoch (1921-44/46) - Erection of the Administrative Order
ii. Second Epoch (1946-63) - spread of the Faith beyond the confines of the Western Hemisphere
iii. Third Epoch (1963-86) - emergence of the Faith from obscurity and initiation of social and economic development plans
iv. Fourth Epoch (1986- ) - national communities taking on the responsibility for their own development
v. Successive further Epochs

c. Golden Age
Successive Epochs leading to the Most Great Peace

3. Further Manifestations - under the shadow of Bahá'u'lláh

· END OF PRESENT UNIVERSAL CYCLE

III. FURTHER UNIVERSAL CYCLES

Ages and Cycles

Dawnofhope · Jun 24, 2021

Bree said:
a lot of these later so called prophets contradict the teachings of Christ. Listening to such ones will not lead a person to the truth. If the truth is not known then how can a person know if they are really on the right path?

God is not a God of chaos...he does everything orderly. He does not contradict himself im sure you'd agree. So if the teaching of one prophet contradicts the teachings of another we should not assume that they are doing God bidding. God does not contradict himself.

That is the argument the Jews use to reject Christ, so it is no surprise Christians use the same argument to reject Prophets that come after Christ. I see no contradiction between the Prophets of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. However if one interprets the Teachings of each of these Prophets incorrectly, or belongs to a church that insists on incorrect interpretations, there will of course be inconsistencies and contradictions. If one fundamentally misunderstands the Prophet they claim to follow, then chaos and confusion are inevitable. It is like the physician who prescribes the remedy. First the diagnosis must be correctly made, only then should the appropriate remedy be prescribed and administered.

Dogknox20 · Jun 24, 2021

Bree said:
a lot of these later so called prophets contradict the teachings of Christ. Listening to such ones will not lead a person to the truth. If the truth is not known then how can a person know if they are really on the right path?

God is not a God of chaos...he does everything orderly. He does not contradict himself im sure you'd agree. So if the teaching of one prophet contradicts the teachings of another we should not assume that they are doing God bidding. God does not contradict himself.

Hello Bree... I hope all is well....Good post!
You are so right; God does Not contradict himself!
God established a Church 2000 years ago! He established it on ROCK..! He did not build on sand his Church will never ever fall! AND... Jesus also promised he would never leave; he promised he will ALWAYS be with his church to the very end of time!
Matthew 28:20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you. “And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”

Bree this is all scripture... The holy body of Jesus is his church! Satan did not take the Church from Jesus; Satan could not take the body of Jesus from Jesus!
The truth is found in the scriptures the Inspired words of God!

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Verse #1 (above) tells you from among the Church Jesus established will come false teachers! FACT: The Church does not come from false teachers this prophesy can only work in the one direction! Arius was a false teacher, he was a Catholic priest, he was AMONG the Church Jesus established, he was among the Body of Jesus! Arius "taught Jesus is not god" he was thus removed as a heretic!
Bree Logic and scriptures tell you...The Church was NOT Among Arius! Arius was among the Catholic Church! Until Arius all Christians believed Jesus is God as they still believe today. Arius rejected the truth thus he was removed from AMONG Christians!
This scripture PROPHESY holds true today; from among Christians will come false teachers! Verse #2 (above) points out the Church is "The Way of Truth!" All who hold as Arius did cannot be in the way of truth, the false teachers come from AMONG the Church Jesus established: NOT the reverse! The Church cannot come from among false teachers! Proving beyond all doubt all who accept the teaching of Arius cannot be part of the truth!
All who believe as Arius contradict the teaching of Christ! Listening to such ones will not lead a person to the truth.
All who believe as Arius MUST reject the scriptures they MUST reject scripture prophesy, thus forced to reject "The way of Truth"!

Dogknox20 · Jun 24, 2021

[QUOTE="Trailblazer said:
As a Baha’i I do not believe that Adam and Eve were real people who once lived in the Garden of Eden.

I believe that the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory, not a true story. I believe that the story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise is a symbol. The story contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of many explanations.

I believe that there was a real man called Adam and that He was the first Prophet of the Adamic Cycle of religion. I also believe we inherited the sins of Adam, but not because he ate an apple from a tree. This is how I believe the descendants of Adam inherited the sins of Adam:

The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of God to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.

The full explanation of what I believe about the allegory is in this chapter: 30: ADAM AND EVE

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Baha’is do not believe in original sin, that sin was inherited from Adam and Eve, so there is no need for redemption from original sin. Baha’is believe that man was born good but has a lower material nature that has the propensity to sin. One possible meaning of the serpent in the Adam and Eve story is attachment to the human world, or the material world, as opposed to God and the spiritual world. When Adam was born and entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the spiritual world, in the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil... This attachment to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in our midst and continues and endures... It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and their exalted position.

As a Baha’i I do not believe that the body of Jesus rose from the grave.

23: THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

Question.—What is the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?

Answer.—The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things......

Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.” Some Answered Questions, p. 104

With all due respect, as I said above, I do not believe that Jesus ever rose from the grave. I believe those were just stories that men wrote. I also do not believe that the resurrection has ANYTHING to do with how one gains eternal life. Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross so we could have eternal life. No resurrection was ever necessary, and that is why it never happened.

, post: 7205710, member: 63455"]As a Baha’i I do not believe that Adam and Eve were real people who once lived in the Garden of Eden.

I believe that the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory, not a true story. I believe that the story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise is a symbol. The story contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of many explanations.

I believe that there was a real man called Adam and that He was the first Prophet of the Adamic Cycle of religion. I also believe we inherited the sins of Adam, but not because he ate an apple from a tree. This is how I believe the descendants of Adam inherited the sins of Adam:

The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of God to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.

The full explanation of what I believe about the allegory is in this chapter: 30: ADAM AND EVE

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Baha’is do not believe in original sin, that sin was inherited from Adam and Eve, so there is no need for redemption from original sin. Baha’is believe that man was born good but has a lower material nature that has the propensity to sin. One possible meaning of the serpent in the Adam and Eve story is attachment to the human world, or the material world, as opposed to God and the spiritual world. When Adam was born and entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the spiritual world, in the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil... This attachment to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in our midst and continues and endures... It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and their exalted position.

As a Baha’i I do not believe that the body of Jesus rose from the grave.

23: THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

Question.—What is the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?

Answer.—The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things......

Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.” Some Answered Questions, p. 104

With all due respect, as I said above, I do not believe that Jesus ever rose from the grave. I believe those were just stories that men wrote. I also do not believe that the resurrection has ANYTHING to do with how one gains eternal life. Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross so we could have eternal life. No resurrection was ever necessary, and that is why it never happened.[/QUOTE]
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Trailblazer there are lots of things that I can see you don't believe! Too bad!
I am Christian; Christians believe the inspired words of God found in the scriptures!
I believe in Jesus as do over One Billion other Christians believe today, never mind the billions that have lived for the past two thousand years!
My belief is rooted in a promised Eternal Life with my God! I can't think of a better belief then the one Christians hold!

Trailblazer · Jun 24, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
Trailblazer there are lots of things that I can see you don't believe! Too bad!
I am Christian; Christians believe the inspired words of God found in the scriptures!
I believe in Jesus as do over One Billion other Christians believe today, never mind the billions that have lived for the past two thousand years!
My belief is rooted in a promised Eternal Life with my God! I can't think of a better belief then the one Christians hold!

Many people hold different beliefs and it is not that any belief is "better" than another belief...
My religion promises that we will have eternal life with God but it also has teachings that address the urgent needs of humanity in this age.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

Dogknox20 · Jun 24, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Many people hold different beliefs and it is not that any belief is "better" than another belief...
My religion promises that we will have eternal life with God but it also has teachings that address the urgent needs of humanity in this age.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

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Hello Trailblazer Clearly this is your belief.. Many people hold different beliefs and it is not that any belief is "better" than another belief...
I reply: There can only be "One Truth"! I note: Your gleanings are written in "Old English"!

The scriptures are the inspired words of God! The scriptures prove true! There have been many miracles and prophesies over the centuries to back up Christian belief!
Trailblazer Bahá’u’lláh was a Persian religious leader he died in 1892! This is the truth... You get one kick at the can; your eternal salvation depends on it! Christianity is the truth or Baháʼí Faith is true one must be wrong!
All faiths teach the Golden rule but: Only one the Christian faith teaches "God became man"! God became part of his own creation!

Trailblazer · Jun 24, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
Hello Trailblazer Clearly this is your belief.. Many people hold different beliefs and it is not that any belief is "better" than another belief...
I reply: There can only be "One Truth"! I note: Your gleanings are written in "Old English"!

There can be only one truth but more than one religion contains that truth. The spiritual truths are eternal, they never change. All true religions contain these eternal spiritual truths, they are faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy.

Dogknox20 said:
The scriptures are the inspired words of God! The scriptures prove true! There have been many miracles and prophesies over the centuries to back up Christian belief!
Trailblazer Bahá’u’lláh was a Persian religious leader he died in 1892! This is the truth... You get one kick at the can; your eternal salvation depends on it! Christianity is the truth or Baháʼí Faith is true one must be wrong!
All faiths teach the Golden rule but: Only one the Christian faith teaches "God became man"! God became part of his own creation!

Baha'u'llah wrote that the Bible is God's greatest testimony to His creatures so I believe it is the truth.
The Bible is the truth but many man-made false doctrines have crept into Christianity and those are not the truth. For example, I do not believe that God became a man. That is not part of the truth that all religions contain, it is a doctrine of Christianity.

The Baha'i Faith upholds Christianity as a divinely revealed religion. An authoritative statement by the Guardian of the Baha'i faith is as follows:

“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth.” The Promised Day is Come, pp. 109-110

Bree · Jun 24, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
Hello Bree... I hope all is well....Good post!
You are so right; God does Not contradict himself!
God established a Church 2000 years ago! He established it on ROCK..! He did not build on sand his Church will never ever fall! AND... Jesus also promised he would never leave; he promised he will ALWAYS be with his church to the very end of time!
Matthew 28:20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you. “And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”

Bree this is all scripture... The holy body of Jesus is his church! Satan did not take the Church from Jesus; Satan could not take the body of Jesus from Jesus!
The truth is found in the scriptures the Inspired words of God!

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Verse #1 (above) tells you from among the Church Jesus established will come false teachers! FACT: The Church does not come from false teachers this prophesy can only work in the one direction! Arius was a false teacher, he was a Catholic priest, he was AMONG the Church Jesus established, he was among the Body of Jesus! Arius "taught Jesus is not god" he was thus removed as a heretic!
Bree Logic and scriptures tell you...The Church was NOT Among Arius! Arius was among the Catholic Church! Until Arius all Christians believed Jesus is God as they still believe today. Arius rejected the truth thus he was removed from AMONG Christians!
This scripture PROPHESY holds true today; from among Christians will come false teachers! Verse #2 (above) points out the Church is "The Way of Truth!" All who hold as Arius did cannot be in the way of truth, the false teachers come from AMONG the Church Jesus established: NOT the reverse! The Church cannot come from among false teachers! Proving beyond all doubt all who accept the teaching of Arius cannot be part of the truth!
All who believe as Arius contradict the teaching of Christ! Listening to such ones will not lead a person to the truth.
All who believe as Arius MUST reject the scriptures they MUST reject scripture prophesy, thus forced to reject "The way of Truth"!

I think you will find that the opposite is true.

The early church, the apostles and the first century christians did not view Jesus as being God but rather as 'Gods Son'

The idea of the trinity came about later in the 2nd and 3 centuries by these aposte christians who had deviated from the teachings of the "Apostles.
The fact that Arias was removed was because he held to the original teaching that Jesus was the Son of God.

Look at the Moratorian fragment. Its a christian document that was found in a monestry and dates back to the 2nd century. In there you will find that those early christian teachers held to no trinity idea. Their teaching was still intact at that early stage. By the 4th century christians were at war from, within because of this wretched false teaching. It is an abomination.

Dogknox20 · Jun 25, 2021

Bree said:
I think you will find that the opposite is true.

The early church, the apostles and the first century christians did not view Jesus as being God but rather as 'Gods Son'

The idea of the trinity came about later in the 2nd and 3 centuries by these aposte christians who had deviated from the teachings of the "Apostles.
The fact that Arias was removed was because he held to the original teaching that Jesus was the Son of God.

Look at the Moratorian fragment. Its a christian document that was found in a monestry and dates back to the 2nd century. In there you will find that those early christian teachers held to no trinity idea. Their teaching was still intact at that early stage. By the 4th century christians were at war from, within because of this wretched false teaching. It is an abomination.

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Hello once again...
I reply: The early Church worshiped Jesus, Jesus never stops them from worshipping him!
The Apostle Thomas declarer in scripture "Jesus is God"! Jesus agrees with Thomas saying; all others will be blessed who believe the same!
The scriptures record: "God coming in the Flesh to live among us!"
The Savior Jesus is named "Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
Elizabeth in Luke 1 tells us; Jesus is her Lord! Bree Jews have only ONE Lord; "God"! Elizabeth declared "Mary is the Mother of God"!
Mary the Mother of Jesus tells us in scripture... "Starting right NOW (two thousand years ago) All in her family will honor her as blessed"! Catholic' are the ONLY peoples with a documented history back 2000 years to this prophesy!

Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the end of time... The very Church Jesus established on Rock! ON ROCK not on sand! Logic alone tells all Christians: Jesus would never let his body fall! Logic alone tells all Christians: Jesus started with his Holy Catholic Church he must still be with his Church... NOT a church started by a man 1900 years after Jesus!
The JWs were started in 1870s by Charles Taze Russell, a very long time after Jesus established his Holy Catholic Church! JW are a man made church, they prophesied the end of the world countless times. Also: A church that refuses to give blood to save the lives of children! Christians teach life is sacred not to be tossed away! A church that teaches 144,000 JW elders are in heaven when scriptures tell you word for word.. These men MUST be virgins!????

Scriptures tell you... "FROM AMONG the Church" will come false teachers! Arius was AMONG Catholics! The Catholic Church was NOT among Arius! The scripture prophesy can only work in the one direction! The prophesy tells you... "Arius is a false teacher" because he was removed as a Heretic! The Catholic Church was NOT removed from Arius!
From AMONG YOU will come false teachers... Arius was a Catholic Priest! Until Arius the teaching of "Jesus is NOT god" was unheard of!

Bree You make a bold statement.. the first century Christians did not view Jesus as being God but rather as 'Gods Son'.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

Dogknox20 · Jun 25, 2021

Trailblazer said:
There can be only one truth but more than one religion contains that truth. The spiritual truths are eternal, they never change. All true religions contain these eternal spiritual truths, they are faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy.

Baha'u'llah wrote that the Bible is God's greatest testimony to His creatures so I believe it is the truth.
The Bible is the truth but many man-made false doctrines have crept into Christianity and those are not the truth. For example, I do not believe that God became a man. That is not part of the truth that all religions contain, it is a doctrine of Christianity.

The Baha'i Faith upholds Christianity as a divinely revealed religion. An authoritative statement by the Guardian of the Baha'i faith is as follows:

“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth.” The Promised Day is Come, pp. 109-110

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Trailblazer you make a bold statement.. There can be only one truth but more than one religion contains that truth.

The truth is "Jesus established a CHURCH before he ascended"!
Scriptures tell you "He promised to remain ALWAYS with the very same church!"
One TRUTH means it cannot be Baha'u'llah! This church was started by a man 1900 years after Jesus established his Church the ONLY Church is is ALWAYS with to the very end of the world!

John 1 In the beginning was the Word, the words was GOD; The word (God) became flesh and lived among us!
Thomas declared in the scriptures "Jesus is his God!" Jesus does NOT correct Thomas Jesus replies; "Blessed are others who believe the same!"

Bree · Jun 25, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
.
Hello once again...
I reply: The early Church worshiped Jesus, Jesus never stops them from worshipping him!
The Apostle Thomas declarer in scripture "Jesus is God"! Jesus agrees with Thomas saying; all others will be blessed who believe the same!
The scriptures record: "God coming in the Flesh to live among us!"
The Savior Jesus is named "Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
Elizabeth in Luke 1 tells us; Jesus is her Lord! Bree Jews have only ONE Lord; "God"! Elizabeth declared "Mary is the Mother of God"!
Mary the Mother of Jesus tells us in scripture... "Starting right NOW (two thousand years ago) All in her family will honor her as blessed"! Catholic' are the ONLY peoples with a documented history back 2000 years to this prophesy!

Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the end of time... The very Church Jesus established on Rock! ON ROCK not on sand! Logic alone tells all Christians: Jesus would never let his body fall! Logic alone tells all Christians: Jesus started with his Holy Catholic Church he must still be with his Church... NOT a church started by a man 1900 years after Jesus!
The JWs were started in 1870s by Charles Taze Russell, a very long time after Jesus established his Holy Catholic Church! JW are a man made church, they prophesied the end of the world countless times. Also: A church that refuses to give blood to save the lives of children! Christians teach life is sacred not to be tossed away! A church that teaches 144,000 JW elders are in heaven when scriptures tell you word for word.. These men MUST be virgins!????

Scriptures tell you... "FROM AMONG the Church" will come false teachers! Arius was AMONG Catholics! The Catholic Church was NOT among Arius! The scripture prophesy can only work in the one direction! The prophesy tells you... "Arius is a false teacher" because he was removed as a Heretic! The Catholic Church was NOT removed from Arius!
From AMONG YOU will come false teachers... Arius was a Catholic Priest! Until Arius the teaching of "Jesus is NOT god" was unheard of!

Bree You make a bold statement.. the first century Christians did not view Jesus as being God but rather as 'Gods Son'.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

If you base all this on the kjv bible i can understand why you would be stuck on this.

Move on.

Trinity is false and the fact that it has been such a topic of dispute and violence for so long it only serves to prove that the trinity is a false teaching. God is love and the trinity has bought nothing but bloodshed.

pearl · Jun 25, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
If someone has found God - by any path - Christ must have been involved even if it's not apparent how.

Karl Rahner, Catholic theologian, coined the term "Anonymous Christianity" meaning that a person lives in the grace of God and attains salvation outside of explicitly constituted Christianity… Let us say, a Buddhist monk… who, because he follows his conscience, attains salvation and lives in the grace of God; of him I must say that he is an anonymous Christian; if not, I would have to presuppose that there is a genuine path to salvation that really attains that goal, but that simply has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. But I cannot do that. And so, if I hold if everyone depends upon Jesus Christ for salvation, and if at the same time I hold that many live in the world who have not expressly recognized Jesus Christ, then there remains in my opinion nothing else but to take up this postulate of an anonymous Christianity."

From this mystery of unity it follows that all men and women who are saved share, though differently, in the same mystery of salvation in Jesus Christ through his Spirit. Christians know this through their faith, while others remain unaware that Jesus Christ is the source of their salvation. The mystery of salvation reaches out to them, in a way known to God, through the invisible action of the Spirit of Christ. Concretely, it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their saviour

Trailblazer · Jun 25, 2021

Dogknox20 said:
The scriptures record: "God coming in the Flesh to live among us!"
The Savior Jesus is named "Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

The scriptures do not say that God came down to earth to live among us. They say that God was manifested in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. God was "with us" in spirit, but not in flesh because God cannot become flesh.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

When God sent Jesus, God was “manifested” in the flesh and Jesus dwelt among us. God did not become flesh, but rather the divine perfections of God were manifested in Jesus who came in the flesh and revealed the Word of God to humanity.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 14:6

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