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The Dietary Laws

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
In my faith, we keep the dietary laws of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. We believe that the Biblical Laws are for our benefit and keeping them produces a healthy mind and body. But in terms of swine, or indeed most of the things which are prohibited for us to eat, my conscience is sensitized towards not even desiring to eat any of these things whether shrimp, shellfish, rabbits, squirrels, raccoons, woodchucks, armadillos and whole host of other flesh foods that find their way into the stomachs of the human race. Few people consider the source of the things they eat and fewer still seem to care.

It is our opinion in our faith that Almighty Yahweh has legislated that we can use cattle, sheep, and goats for human food consumption because they have a much lower incidence of communicable disease. They are ruminating animal's, meaning that they chew their cud. A ruminant is an animal whose stomach comprises more than one compartment. The food that a ruminant animal ingests passes from one compartment to another and is thoroughly digested before it is transferred into the intestines where nutrients are absorbed into the bloodstream as nourishment. The impurities are eliminated much more readily in the process than they would be in a shorter process such as is the case with the animals Almighty Yahweh has prohibited mankind to use for food.

Additionally, the ruminant animals are not known to be carnivorous (meat eating) and predatory (preying on other animals). Ruminants are vegetarian by nature and they consume food that is intrinsically less impure than do carnivorous or prefatory creatures. Consequently, the beginning of the cycle that ends in meat production by a ruminating animal is one in which a much superior grade of food is manufactured into nourishment for humans. We must conclude that mankind of himself (and specifically Moses who transmitted this great law to Israel) could not have learned these facts by observation alone if Almighty Yahweh had not personally revealed this information to him.

Although ruminant animals themselves are not entirely free of parasitic diseases, they have a much lower incidence of yielding contaminated meat than do creatures of the carnivorous kind. I'll emphasize here that only meat from obviously healthy animals should ever be eaten, and that meat should be thoroughly cooked before eating.

Do you believe the dietary laws are good laws and Yahweh knew what he was talking about when he legislated them?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In my faith, we keep the dietary laws of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. We believe that the Biblical Laws are for our benefit and keeping them produces a healthy mind and body. But in terms of swine, or indeed most of the things which are prohibited for us to eat, my conscience is sensitized towards not even desiring to eat any of these things whether shrimp, shellfish, rabbits, squirrels, raccoons, woodchucks, armadillos and whole host of other flesh foods that find their way into the stomachs of the human race. Few people consider the source of the things they eat and fewer still seem to care.

It is our opinion in our faith that Almighty Yahweh has legislated that we can use cattle, sheep, and goats for human food consumption because they have a much lower incidence of communicable disease. They are ruminating animal's, meaning that they chew their cud. A ruminant is an animal whose stomach comprises more than one compartment. The food that a ruminant animal ingests passes from one compartment to another and is thoroughly digested before it is transferred into the intestines where nutrients are absorbed into the bloodstream as nourishment. The impurities are eliminated much more readily in the process than they would be in a shorter process such as is the case with the animals Almighty Yahweh has prohibited mankind to use for food.

Additionally, the ruminant animals are not known to be carnivorous (meat eating) and predatory (preying on other animals). Ruminants are vegetarian by nature and they consume food that is intrinsically less impure than do carnivorous or prefatory creatures. Consequently, the beginning of the cycle that ends in meat production by a ruminating animal is one in which a much superior grade of food is manufactured into nourishment for humans. We must conclude that mankind of himself (and specifically Moses who transmitted this great law to Israel) could not have learned these facts by observation alone if Almighty Yahweh had not personally revealed this information to him.

Although ruminant animals themselves are not entirely free of parasitic diseases, they have a much lower incidence of yielding contaminated meat than do creatures of the carnivorous kind. I'll emphasize here that only meat from obviously healthy animals should ever be eaten, and that meat should be thoroughly cooked before eating.

Do you believe the dietary laws are good laws and Yahweh knew what he was talking about when he legislated them?

May I ask. How much of the bible do you apply to today that is not appropriate given time periods differences, cultures, languages, and geographic locations?

Why would god use the same laws for gentiles of the 21st century as the laws for the Jews way back in BC? (Assuming you don't believe apostolic transmission/lbw)
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
May I ask. How much of the bible do you apply to today that is not appropriate given time periods differences, cultures, languages, and geographic locations?

Why would god use the same laws for gentiles of the 21st century as the laws for the Jews way back in BC? (Assuming you don't believe apostolic transmission/lbw)
Hi Unveiled Artist. Good morning. Malachi 3:6 says: “I Yahweh do not change." Why shouldn't the applications of the Law be relevant to us in our day and age if Yahweh dwells in eternity. The very name of Yahweh comes from the Hebrew verb of existence. Do you think Yahweh's Laws change when He has given no indication that they would? I believe in Yahshua the Messiah of course, and therefore the sacrificial laws were completed through the perfect sacrifice of Yahshua, but the other laws, should still apply. And they are good laws. Romans 7:12 says so.

Romans 3:31 tells us that faith in Yahweh does not negate the Law, it establishes it.

In my faith we strive to fulfil the law and follow our Saviour Yahshua the Messiah who kept the Law perfectly as our example.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Me thinks it is wiser to take a more rational approach and avoid all food and drink that makes the mind or body static or too speedy and prefer sentient food and drink such as fruits, veggies, grains, dairy, nuts, pulses, beans and seeds (except onion-family, mushrooms, blue cheeses, red lentils, nutmeg and durian fruit which have static effect) that keep the mind and body pure and healthy.

It is ok to follow religious dietary laws as long as all the food and drink you take are from the sentient category as well. If you wish to lead a truely spiritual life.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Additionally, the ruminant animals are not known to be carnivorous (meat eating) and predatory (preying on other animals). Ruminants are vegetarian by nature and they consume food that is intrinsically less impure than do carnivorous or prefatory creatures. Consequently, the beginning of the cycle that ends in meat production by a ruminating animal is one in which a much superior grade of food is manufactured into nourishment for humans

Although ruminant animals themselves are not entirely free of parasitic diseases, they have a much lower incidence of yielding contaminated meat than do creatures of the carnivorous kind
Thank you for your fantastic post; I appreciate it. That is really useful information; I did find 1 or 2 discrepancies though
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
What are your thoughts on verses like Mark 7:18-19?

“Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Or 1 Corinthians 8:8?

"Food will not make us acceptable to God. We are not inferior if we don’t eat, and we are not better if we do eat."

Or Acts 10:9-15?

"About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
In my faith, we keep the dietary laws of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. We believe that the Biblical Laws are for our benefit and keeping them produces a healthy mind and body. But in terms of swine, or indeed most of the things which are prohibited for us to eat, my conscience is sensitized towards not even desiring to eat any of these things whether shrimp, shellfish, rabbits, squirrels, raccoons, woodchucks, armadillos and whole host of other flesh foods that find their way into the stomachs of the human race. Few people consider the source of the things they eat and fewer still seem to care.

It is our opinion in our faith that Almighty Yahweh has legislated that we can use cattle, sheep, and goats for human food consumption because they have a much lower incidence of communicable disease. They are ruminating animal's, meaning that they chew their cud. A ruminant is an animal whose stomach comprises more than one compartment. The food that a ruminant animal ingests passes from one compartment to another and is thoroughly digested before it is transferred into the intestines where nutrients are absorbed into the bloodstream as nourishment. The impurities are eliminated much more readily in the process than they would be in a shorter process such as is the case with the animals Almighty Yahweh has prohibited mankind to use for food.

Additionally, the ruminant animals are not known to be carnivorous (meat eating) and predatory (preying on other animals). Ruminants are vegetarian by nature and they consume food that is intrinsically less impure than do carnivorous or prefatory creatures. Consequently, the beginning of the cycle that ends in meat production by a ruminating animal is one in which a much superior grade of food is manufactured into nourishment for humans. We must conclude that mankind of himself (and specifically Moses who transmitted this great law to Israel) could not have learned these facts by observation alone if Almighty Yahweh had not personally revealed this information to him.

Although ruminant animals themselves are not entirely free of parasitic diseases, they have a much lower incidence of yielding contaminated meat than do creatures of the carnivorous kind. I'll emphasize here that only meat from obviously healthy animals should ever be eaten, and that meat should be thoroughly cooked before eating.

Do you believe the dietary laws are good laws and Yahweh knew what he was talking about when he legislated them?
I think God had little to do with it and they are cultural products of the time and place of their origin.

As a matter of fact, we now realise that ruminant animals are the worst possible ones to raise for food, since they emit large amounts of methane, which is an important contributor to climate change.

So we should instead, eat pork, rabbit, poultry - and of course increase the vegetarian component of our diets. None of this was known to the tribesmen of the Middle East (nor did they know how to raise pigs free from disease, as we do now).
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It is our opinion in our faith that Almighty Yahweh has legislated that we can use cattle, sheep, and goats for human food consumption because they have a much lower incidence of communicable disease.
[Citation needed]

Edit: I thought that many non-ruminant animals were kosher as well, e.g. chicken... no?
 

Batya

Always Forward
Why do Christians not keep these dietary laws? Didn't Jesus say he wasn't changing the law, by even a jot or tittle?
He did say that, and he meant it. Unfortunately, scriptures have been twisted and it is taught in most modern Christianity that by Yeshua "fulfilling" the law, we no longer have to keep any of these things. Yeshua is said to be our example to live by, yet if we aren't to do the things he did (i.e. keep the dietary laws, etc), that doesn't make much sense to me. It's clear throughout the tanach that Yahweh doesn't change and that these things are forever, and it's clear in the NT that Yeshua did not abolish the Torah and that these things still stand.
 

Batya

Always Forward
[Citation needed]

Edit: I thought that many non-ruminant animals were kosher as well, e.g. chicken... no?
Yes, there are others. For birds it's much more tricky, as we don't know for sure what many of the birds listed are anymore, that's my understanding. But chickens are generally considered clean, ducks are questionable, some people eat them, some don't, and then there are pigeons, doves, quail, and things like that that are definitely clean as per biblical standards. Birds of prey and things like that are definitely considered unclean.
Then there are fish, whatever has fins and scales are clean.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I think God had little to do with it and they are cultural products of the time and place of their origin.
Right. And that's the common thread, not health concerns. Things that are compatible with a nomadic lifestyle are allowed, things that aren't are prohibited.

Pigs need static pens, but sheep can be driven from place to place to graze. Shellfish are typically caught with traps that stay in the same place for years, but scaly fish are caught with a hook or net wherever.

Pigs are also a bit of a luxury good: anything pigs can eat can generally be eaten by a human if the alternative is starvation, so keeping pigs is only something that a society with excess food can do. It's easy to see why a nomadic people who often experience food insecurity would consider pigs to be a marker of what differentiates them from the societies around them.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Few people consider the source of the things they eat and fewer still seem to care.
This is so untrue it's hard to know which example to cite. Perhaps pescetarian? Or vegan? Or vegetarian? Or ovo-vegetarian? Or lacto-vegetarian? Or ovo-lacto vegetarian? Or pollotarianism? The millions of people that follow these diets have chosen them because they have considered their sources of food and may actually care. IMHO, there are indeed people who do not care, such people follow a meat-based diet.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yes, there are others. For birds it's much more tricky, as we don't know for sure what many of the birds listed are anymore, that's my understanding. But chickens are generally considered clean, ducks are questionable, some people eat them, some don't, and then there are pigeons, doves, quail, and things like that that are definitely clean as per biblical standards. Birds of prey and things like that are definitely considered unclean.
Then there are fish, whatever has fins and scales are clean.
Right. Thank you.

So if we're talking about food safety, it's worth calling attention to the fact that chicken is one of the riskier meats for food-borne illnesses.

Also, something that puzzles me with @Messianic Israelite 's OP: why would "ruminants are less risky than other meats" necessarily translate to "we should eat ruminants"?

If food-borne illness is your - or God's - overriding concern, well, why wouldn't you go with a strict vegetarian diet?
 

Batya

Always Forward
Right. Thank you.

So if we're talking about food safety, it's worth calling attention to the fact that chicken is one of the riskier meats for food-borne illnesses.

Also, something that puzzles me with @Messianic Israelite 's OP: why would "ruminants are less risky than other meats" necessarily translate to "we should eat ruminants"?

If food-borne illness is your - or God's - overriding concern, well, why wouldn't you go with a strict vegetarian diet?
You're welcome.
I personally (as someone who observes the biblical dietary laws) don't necessarily know that health concerns were the primary reason for these laws, although I am certainly in agreement with @Messianic Israelite that they are the healthiest meats. All of God's laws are for our good, so that he would tell us to stay away from the unhealthy meats is in alignment with His character.
With chickens, it's interesting, because chickens have changed dramatically from the way they were years ago. They have been bred for certain characteristics (not in itself a bad thing, but I believe they've taken it a bit far in regards to the health of the bird itself), but primarily the conditions in which chickens are raised now days is a huge contributor to the health risks.
The fact that the permitted animals are less risky or more healthful is an expression of our Creator's wisdom, whether or not that is the main reason for the laws.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why do Christians not keep these dietary laws? Didn't Jesus say he wasn't changing the law, by even a jot or tittle?
Because of Peter's vison and also that the Apostles believed that there were only Two Commandments needed to be followed perm Jesus' teaching: love of God and love of neighbor.
 

Batya

Always Forward
Because of Peter's vison and also that the Apostles believed that there were only Two Commandments needed to be followed perm Jesus' teaching: love of God and love of neighbor.
Peter's vision was explained later in the chapter and it was speaking of people, not a sudden flip of the dietary laws.
Also, it is on those two commandments that all the law and prophets hang, they don't negate the rest, they simply summarize it. Yeshua kept the Torah and he is our perfect example. The apostles followed His example, and we should be following His example as well.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He did say that, and he meant it. Unfortunately, scriptures have been twisted and it is taught in most modern Christianity that by Yeshua "fulfilling" the law, we no longer have to keep any of these things. Yeshua is said to be our example to live by, yet if we aren't to do the things he did (i.e. keep the dietary laws, etc), that doesn't make much sense to me. It's clear throughout the tanach that Yahweh doesn't change and that these things are forever, and it's clear in the NT that Yeshua did not abolish the Torah and that these things still stand.
It seems clear to me that Christians have been cherry-picking Biblical laws and admonitions pretty much forever; observing the ones they like, ignoring or rationalizing ones they don't, and insisting on strict observance of whichever injunctions are politically expedient.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He did say that, and he meant it. Unfortunately, scriptures have been twisted and it is taught in most modern Christianity that by Yeshua "fulfilling" the law, we no longer have to keep any of these things. Yeshua is said to be our example to live by, yet if we aren't to do the things he did (i.e. keep the dietary laws, etc), that doesn't make much sense to me. It's clear throughout the tanach that Yahweh doesn't change and that these things are forever, and it's clear in the NT that Yeshua did not abolish the Torah and that these things still stand.
I've always found the "fulfill the law" thing a convenient, self-serving, rationalization. It's vague and ambiguous, not at all like the unambiguous. "not change by even a jot or tittle."
Apparently God's law has been politicized, for convenience and recruitment.
 
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