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So Jesus is not God?

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
That the writers of the scriptures themselves weren't certain on the divinity of Christ should say a lot about this conversation, it's arguments, and conclusions.

Personally, I think the idea of a divine and immortal Christ actually damages the power and significance of his sacrifice. What is the burden of a few days' suffering to an immortal being? What's 3 days of death, when you've preexisted, or will live for all eternity?
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
That the writers of the scriptures themselves weren't certain on the divinity of Christ should say a lot about this conversation, it's arguments, and conclusions.

Personally, I think the idea of a divine and immortal Christ actually damages the power and significance of his sacrifice. What is the burden of a few days' suffering to an immortal being? What's 3 days of death, when you've preexisted, or will live for all eternity?

Good post, but I really think the Apostles actually knew who Jesus was. All scripture is inspired by God.

And I do agree with you in that a divine and immortal Christ - before he was born.... - does actually damage the power and significance of his sacrifice. What would his sacrifice mean if he was already immortal or divine.... great point. Thanks
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Good post, but I really think the Apostles actually knew who Jesus was. All scripture is inspired by God.

And I do agree with you in that a divine and immortal Christ - before he was born.... - does actually damage the power and significance of his sacrifice. What would his sacrifice mean if he was already immortal or divine.... great point. Thanks
And, of course, Trinitarians have forgotten the purpose of God bringing the created world into being.

They forget that the created world was designed to be ruled by mankind and its king is the son of God.

This ‘Son of God’ would have been Adam, who was born of the Holy Spirit. Do Trinitarians ever mention that?

But Adam sinned and lost his place as ‘Son of God’. Another msn in the manner of Adam was created, the last Adam, born of the Holy Spirit to die as a sacrificial victim for mankind.

Yes, it is absurd that ‘God’ would come into his own creation to be that sacrifice when he was angry with man for their sin.

And what sense does it make that ‘God’ should grant himself to be ruler over creation when he was already ruler over it anyway.

And what happened to mankind ruling over creation:
  • ‘The word that comes out of my mouth will by no means return to me until it has performed that which it was sent out to accomplish’
Trinity makes God a liar because trinity does not make mankind ruler over creation. And certainly does not make a human don of God it’s king!
 

John1.12

Free gift
OK, let's just see it this way for a minute. Jesus created everything, which he didnt of course, but let's just say. He had the power to do that. Then, he lost that power, then.... God gave it back to him at some point? If that's really the case, why? Doesnt make sense, does it.....

An immortal Jesus, then mortal, then immortal. Really?

Other versions say, and for him all things were created. Which one is right? I told you meanings can change with which version of the bible your reading.
That's why you should read a reliable translation. And because you don't accept the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ( The God head ) ,your not going to make sense of the verses like Col 1.15
 

John1.12

Free gift
As I stated, all you do is post a verse and then walk away claiming it shows Jesus is God.

How is the physical world created BY Jesus FOR Jesus…?

Why would ‘god’ create a limited physical flesh world and want to become its ruler … yet it is the Father (which means: ‘Creator’, ‘bringer into existence’, ‘Life giver’) who GRANTS the man to be its ruler?

Do you read that Jesus is HEIR to God… and you say Jesus IS GOD that he is HEIR to?

Are you just going to quote another purposeless verse and walk away seeing by now you are just taking the proverbial - now you know the truth you are just joking around … rolling on the floor with laughter at pizzy empty comments?
Your never going to understand those verses because you reject the main part that makes sense of them ( The trinity)
1¶In the beginning was the Word,( Jesus ) and the Word ( Jesus ) was with God,( The Father and the Word ( Jesus) was God.

2The same ( Jesus) was in the beginning with God.( Father )

3All things were made by him ( Jesus , but not separate from the Father and the Holy Spirit. Genesis Shows all three in the creation of all things. ) and without him ( Jesus ) was not any thing made that was made.

4In him( Jesus ) was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6¶There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light( Jesus ) , which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10¶He was in the world, and the world was made by him( Jesus ) , and the world knew him not.( Jesus )

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.( Jesus)

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: ( Jesus )

This would all be idolatry if Jesus was not God.
 

John1.12

Free gift
And, of course, Trinitarians have forgotten the purpose of God bringing the created world into being.

They forget that the created world was designed to be ruled by mankind and its king is the son of God.

This ‘Son of God’ would have been Adam, who was born of the Holy Spirit. Do Trinitarians ever mention that?

But Adam sinned and lost his place as ‘Son of God’. Another msn in the manner of Adam was created, the last Adam, born of the Holy Spirit to die as a sacrificial victim for mankind.

Yes, it is absurd that ‘God’ would come into his own creation to be that sacrifice when he was angry with man for their sin.

And what sense does it make that ‘God’ should grant himself to be ruler over creation when he was already ruler over it anyway.

And what happened to mankind ruling over creation:
  • ‘The word that comes out of my mouth will by no means return to me until it has performed that which it was sent out to accomplish’
Trinity makes God a liar because trinity does not make mankind ruler over creation. And certainly does not make a human don of God it’s king!
' Dominian ' is not the same as 'purpose '. God allowing dominan is the point. This is separate as to why the world was created and the purpose .
 

John1.12

Free gift
As I stated, all you do is post a verse and then walk away claiming it shows Jesus is God.

How is the physical world created BY Jesus FOR Jesus…?

Why would ‘god’ create a limited physical flesh world and want to become its ruler … yet it is the Father (which means: ‘Creator’, ‘bringer into existence’, ‘Life giver’) who GRANTS the man to be its ruler?

Do you read that Jesus is HEIR to God… and you say Jesus IS GOD that he is HEIR to?

Are you just going to quote another purposeless verse and walk away seeing by now you are just taking the proverbial - now you know the truth you are just joking around … rolling on the floor with laughter at pizzy empty comments?
There's too much about Jesus and who he is to deny his divinity . You would need to be following an ideology / paradigm, to miss it .
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM(YHWH), you will die in your sins."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am.(YHWH)"

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Rom 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.


2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

2 Peter 1:11
for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the GNT but always to Jesus.


Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.


Conclusion: So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!
 

John1.12

Free gift
As I stated, all you do is post a verse and then walk away claiming it shows Jesus is God.

How is the physical world created BY Jesus FOR Jesus…?

Why would ‘god’ create a limited physical flesh world and want to become its ruler … yet it is the Father (which means: ‘Creator’, ‘bringer into existence’, ‘Life giver’) who GRANTS the man to be its ruler?

Do you read that Jesus is HEIR to God… and you say Jesus IS GOD that he is HEIR to?

Are you just going to quote another purposeless verse and walk away seeing by now you are just taking the proverbial - now you know the truth you are just joking around … rolling on the floor with laughter at pizzy empty comments?
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM(YHWH), you will die in your sins."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am.(YHWH)"

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Rom 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.


2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

2 Peter 1:11
for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the GNT but always to Jesus.


Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.


Conclusion: So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM(YHWH), you will die in your sins."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am.(YHWH)"

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Rom 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.


2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

2 Peter 1:11
for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the GNT but always to Jesus.


Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus
Conclusion: So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!
Ha ha ha… Nowhere in the scriptures does it say that the Father is coming…

You create a straw man and then knock it down and claim that you were right about what you erroneously said… incredible!!! But trinitarian to the hilt!!

And I’ve told you before, ‘First and Last’ (Same as ‘Alpha and Omega’) simply means:
  • ‘Only [one]’.
You can see this easily by applying it in a sentence:
  • ‘Jesus is the first raised from the dead by God to immortal life - and he is also the last to be so raised. He is the first, and he is the last!’
So please stop making stuff up. Your ignorance is greater than you know!

You say, “God has come down to us in human form!”

The Lycaonians said of Paul and Barnabus (because they performed a feat of miracle, healing a man born lame):
  • “The gods have come down to us in human form!” (Acts 14:11)
You are making the same error that the people of Lystra made.

If Paul and Barnabas were dismayed by the pagan attitude of the people of Lystra about one miracle, how much more dismayed should we be by anyone who calls themselves Christian who says that Jesus was ‘God in Human form’?
 
Last edited:

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM(YHWH), you will die in your sins."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am.(YHWH)"

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Rom 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.


2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

2 Peter 1:11
for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the GNT but always to Jesus.


Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.


Conclusion: So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

Yeah, but you used alot of verses that refer to God the father and not of Jesus.
 

John1.12

Free gift
Ha ha ha… Nowhere in the scriptures does it say that the Father is coming…

You create a straw man and then knock it down and claim that you were right about what you erroneously said… incredible!!! But trinitarian to the hilt!!

And I’ve told you before, ‘First and Last’ (Same as ‘Alpha and Omega’) simply means:
  • ‘Only [one]’.
You can see this easily by applying it in a sentence:
  • ‘Jesus is the first raised from the dead by God to immortal life - and he is also the last to be so raised. He is the first, and he is the last!’
So please stop making stuff up. Your ignorance is greater than you know!

You say, “God has come down to us in human form!”

The Lycaonians said of Paul and Barnabus (because they performed a feat of miracle, healing a man born lame):
  • “The gods have come down to us in human form!” (Acts 14:11)
You are making the same error that the people of Lystra made.

If Paul and Barnabas were dismayed by the pagan attitude of the people of Lystra about one miracle, how much more dismayed should we be by anyone who calls themselves Christian who says that Jesus was ‘God in Human form’?
If all the claims Christians say about Jesus are true what should the bible say ? When I try this with what you believe I find no verse ?
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
If all the claims Christians say about Jesus are true what should the bible say ? When I try this with what you believe I find no verse ?
What are you talking about. The delusion has gotten to you.

There is nowhere in scriptures where it says that God is coming anywhere.

The Father; Yahweh, the ONE TRUE GOD, THE MOST HIGH GOD, never leaves his place of power, his ethereal throne in heaven.

The Father sends his Holy Spirit or his angels to do his Will … and that is right!

Jesus says that his Will is to do THE WILL of his Father.

And the holy angels know that they should do only the Will of God, their creator, their Father in spirit.

So, which part of what I said are you disputing?
 

John1.12

Free gift
What are you talking about. The delusion has gotten to you.

There is nowhere in scriptures where it says that God is coming anywhere.

The Father; Yahweh, the ONE TRUE GOD, THE MOST HIGH GOD, never leaves his place of power, his ethereal throne in heaven.

The Father sends his Holy Spirit or his angels to do his Will … and that is right!

Jesus says that his Will is to do THE WILL of his Father.

And the holy angels know that they should do only the Will of God, their creator, their Father in spirit.

So, which part of what I said are you disputing?
Ok let's not pretend I'm the only person that believes the bible says Jesus is God . I realise there are many cults and religions who deny Jesus is God ,because of there religion .
 

John1.12

Free gift
That the writers of the scriptures themselves weren't certain on the divinity of Christ should say a lot about this conversation, it's arguments, and conclusions.

Personally, I think the idea of a divine and immortal Christ actually damages the power and significance of his sacrifice. What is the burden of a few days' suffering to an immortal being? What's 3 days of death, when you've preexisted, or will live for all eternity?
Its about what the bible actually says .
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Ok let's not pretend I'm the only person that believes the bible says Jesus is God . I realise there are many cults and religions who deny Jesus is God ,because of there religion .

So what your saying is that if someone who doesnt believe in the false religion, the Trinity, who doesnt believe that Jesus is God, he's in a cult? Wow...
 

John1.12

Free gift
Nah. Disagree. If you can't quote the Bible directly explaining this Trinity nonsense, then it's not there. It's just something you're taught to believe. Same with Yahweh being the only god...
" Taught to believe " . Its the craziest idea ,if its not true . I can think of easier concepts to ' make up ' .
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Its about what the bible actually says .
But @john 1.12, you don’t believe what the Bible says!

Jesus says that he is the son of God because he is doing the works of the Father… that his Will is to do THE Will of his Father - and you say that that means Jesus IS GOD.

You say to believe what the scriptures say yet you refuse acknowledgement of what Jesus says. Instead, you select what TRINITY maliciously claims.

Matthew 7:21 says:
  • “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
Again, Jesus says that the way to life in the kingdom of the Father is to do the WILL OF THE FATHER… and:
  • “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.” (John 4:34)
  • “Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.” (John 7:17)
Jesus tells us that his Will is to do his Father’s Will, and that what he speaks is what was taught to him by the Father…
  • “The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.” (John 14:10)
  • By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.” (John 5:30)
And who sent Jesus, and when did he send Jesus?
  • “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee … how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him from the dead… He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. ” (Acts 10:37-42)
And with all this evidence you still say Jesus is:
  • the God who empowered him with the power of God
  • the God that raised him (god, you say) from the dead
  • the God that granted him to be judge over the living and the dead
So you are saying that:
  • Jesus anointed himself with one of the three persons of the pagan trinity god
  • Jesus anointed himself with the power that as god he already had
  • Jesus raised himself from the dead even though we are told that it was the Father who did do:
    • “The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.” (Acts 5:30)
    • “Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him [Jesus] from the dead—” (Galatians 1:1)
You turn Jesus into a liar when you say what you say… yet it is not your belief but that of what you have been disputable taught!

@john 1.12, hear what Jesus says to you:
  • “@john 1.12, @john 1.12, why do you persecute me? It is useless for you to fight against my will.”!
 
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