For Christians: What is Paradise? Is it Heaven?

Jeremiah Ames · Jun 20, 2021

Deeje said:
OK, Jeremiah Ames....I give up. Under your religious persuasion you have listed "Absolutely Not".....so please enlighten us as to what you espouse to be....are you a Christian or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.
This thread was for Christians......so are you?

Your reference to "my God" is ambiguous, so could you identify your God for us? Is it Yahweh of the Jews, or "the Lord God" of Christendom? Or none of the above....?

Any assumptions I have made were based on your silence.

have you assumed how old I am?

where I live?

if I’m married?

what color skin I have?

how tall I am?

how fat I am?

I don’t need to provide an exhaustive bio, in order to have a discussion with someone. do I?

just wondering

Deeje · Jun 20, 2021

OK...let's see...

Jeremiah Ames said:
so, under your rulebook, you cannot respond to my perfectly good argument without diverting the discussion to my character

I don’t have to tell you my religion in order to have a discussion about the Bible
one does not need to offer a religious point of view to discuss the Bible

Ummmm ....well seeing as how I invited Christians to reply to my thread, I assumed that you are, or at least should be a Christian...or else why are you here? :shrug:

Jeremiah Ames said:
but now your new comment opens a door to more dialogue, but then if I choose to question what you say and offer my thoughts, you will just dismiss me or divert to some other topic, if you’re not comfortable

Well, actually, if you identified as "Christian", I at least know whether you are legitimately responding on a thread where only Christians were invited. Its got nothing to do with being comfortable or uncomfortable, but whether we had anything to discuss in the first place, and seeing as how you were uncomfortable with the label. I had no idea where you were coming from.

Jeremiah Ames said:
for instance, requiring me to identify if my God is Yahweh of the Jews, or the Lord God of Christiandom? Or none of the above?

what could prompt such an unusual question?

The fact that Jews and Christians worship very different gods. So if you are not identifying with either, that leaves the door open for a god of your own invention. If you are a church of one, that can be a problem you see.
There are no lone wolves in Christianity which is a designation that simply means a follower of Christ. There is no need for the cloak and dagger stuff. Or do you like being a 'man of mystery'?

Jeremiah Ames said:
when you give it some thought, is that not a very very odd question?

Not odd at all on religious forums......this is not a "Christian only" site. You can be a worshipper of any god you like here, so forgive my assumptions....they were based on your reticence to identify your faith. The odd scriptural reference did not identify you.

Jeremiah Ames said:
for one thing, it implies something nonsensical. there are two possible Gods to choose from or none at all. Is that the way you see it?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6....
"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."
These are two separate entities each with their own names, and only one of which is a deity. Do you get the picture?

Jeremiah Ames said:
also, you continue to assume things that are clearly not correct. I can say that with complete confidence, since your ASSUMPTIONS are about me.

My assumptions are based on your refusal to identify yourself as a legitimate contributor to this thread. Why so defensive?

tell me who the God of the Jews is.

He was the God and Father of Jesus Christ and all faithful Jews. Yahweh is his name, recorded in the Tanakh for all to see. (יְהֹוָ֞ה) But the Jews lost sight of the importance of God's name being known and spoken....and refused to say it. They have given their reasons but these fight with Exodus 3:15.

"And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."

The "Lord God" here is Yahweh.

Jeremiah Ames said:
then tell me who the Lord God of Christiandom is.

The "Lord God" of Christendom is a three headed god who was completely unknown to the Jews, but who was invented by the Catholic church over three hundred years after Jesus' death. He came to be known as "God the Son", even though such an expression is not found in a single passage of scripture.

Jeremiah Ames said:
if that is even possible, since there are probably 10,000,000 (exaggerated a little bit) different sects of Christiandom

They all seem to have their own version of the same three headed god. He is still called Jesus. Yet Jesus never once called himself "God". Go figure....

Jeremiah Ames said:
as you have noted, under religious persuasion, I wrote absolutely not.
that probably gives a bit of a clue about me, but leaves the door open enough for people to make all kinds of erroneous assumptions

So why complain when people do?

What is with the mystery?

Jeremiah Ames said:
have you assumed how old I am?

where I live?

if I’m married?

what color skin I have?

how tall I am?

how fat I am?

I don’t need to provide an exhaustive bio, in order to have a discussion with someone. do I?

just wondering

LOL....all I know about you is what you divulge about yourself....which according to your profile, is that you are a 69 year old male.....or a cat with two legs.

If you climb down a bit, you might find that we have some things in common.....?

Jeremiah Ames · Jun 20, 2021

Deeje said:
OK...let's see...

Ummmm ....well seeing as how I invited Christians to reply to my thread, I assumed that you are, or at least should be a Christian...or else why are you here?

Well, actually, if you identified as "Christian", I at least know whether you are legitimately responding on a thread where only Christians were invited. Its got nothing to do with being comfortable or uncomfortable, but whether we had anything to discuss in the first place, and seeing as how you were uncomfortable with the label. I had no idea where you were coming from.

The fact that Jews and Christians worship very different gods. So if you are not identifying with either, that leaves the door open for a god of your own invention. If you are a church of one, that can be a problem you see.
There are no lone wolves in Christianity which is a designation that simply means a follower of Christ. There is no need for the cloak and dagger stuff. Or do you like being a 'man of mystery'?

Not odd at all on religious forums......this is not a "Christian only" site. You can be a worshipper of any god you like here, so forgive my assumptions....they were based on your reticence to identify your faith. The odd scriptural reference did not identify you.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6....
"For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."
These are two separate entities each with their own names, and only one of which is a deity. Do you get the picture?

My assumptions are based on your refusal to identify yourself as a legitimate contributor to this thread. Why so defensive?

He was the God and Father of Jesus Christ and all faithful Jews. Yahweh is his name, recorded in the Tanakh for all to see. (יְהֹוָ֞ה) But the Jews lost sight of the importance of God's name being known and spoken....and refused to say it. They have given their reasons but these fight with Exodus 3:15.

"And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."

The "Lord God" here is Yahweh.

The "Lord God" of Christendom is a three headed god who was completely unknown to the Jews, but who was invented by the Catholic church over three hundred years after Jesus' death. He came to be known as "God the Son", even though such an expression is not found in a single passage of scripture.

They all seem to have their own version of the same three headed god. He is still called Jesus. Yet Jesus never once called himself "God". Go figure....

So why complain when people do? What is with the mystery?

LOL....all I know about you is what you divulge about yourself....which according to your profile, is that you are a 69 year old male.....or a cat with two legs.

If you climb down a bit, you might find that we have some things in common.....?

oh my,

why do some people keep digging when they find themselves in a hole?

i could give answers to your questions, although the answers you seek are not pertinent to the thread

perhaps, you need to start a new thread:
Who is Jeremiah Ames?

my wish is that my comments may stimulate discussion about the topic proposed, and make people think
I love to think about new things, and allow my mind to possibly take in new ideas without adamantly clinging to my own ideas

but you prefer to evade the discussion by going on new paths

an interesting new path of yours now is the comment about Jews and Christians worshiping very different gods
and then if I don’t identify with one of those, I must have a special one all my own

those comments open a door that would require more energy than I have at this moment, should I dare to walk through it

if you wanted to pick a single topic, even about God, worship of said God, or whether people should change God’s word to accommodate a specific agenda, or anything else, I would welcome it

but we would need to set some rules
Like: don’t inundate the other person with so much extraneous stuff that the subject is lost, and don’t stray from the chosen subject

goodnight Deeje

i must turn off the IPad now

Deeje · Jun 21, 2021

Jeremiah Ames said:
why do some people keep digging when they find themselves in a hole?

I wasn't aware of any hole.....

Jeremiah Ames said:
i could give answers to your questions, although the answers you seek are not pertinent to the thread

perhaps, you need to start a new thread:
Who is Jeremiah Ames?

Ummm....it would die from lack of interest TBH.

Jeremiah Ames said:
an interesting new path of yours now is the comment about Jews and Christians worshiping very different gods
and then if I don’t identify with one of those, I must have a special one all my own

You asked specifically about the God of the Jews and the God of Christendom and I answered you....
good grief man....anyone would think I just poisoned you well or something.

How many gods do you think there are?

Jeremiah Ames said:
those comments open a door that would require more energy than I have at this moment, should I dare to walk through it

As you wish....no pressure old fella. (I am older than you BTW)

Jeremiah Ames said:
if you wanted to pick a single topic, even about God, worship of said God, or whether people should change God’s word to accommodate a specific agenda, or anything else, I would welcome it

Pick whatever topic you like and I will discuss whatever subject you choose....

Jeremiah Ames said:
but we would need to set some rules
Like: don’t inundate the other person with so much extraneous stuff that the subject is lost, and don’t stray from the chosen subject

Do you have a short attention span then...? :shrug:

Conversations don't have rules....they have a life of their own usually. But I'll try. OK? Would I be able to ask you to lighten up just a little? Its not enjoyable when it gets too serious.

Jeremiah Ames said:
goodnight Deeje

i must turn off the IPad now

Time to hit the sack for me too....

Later......

Jeremiah Ames · Jun 21, 2021

Deeje said:
I wasn't aware of any hole.....

Ummm....it would die from lack of interest TBH.

You asked specifically about the God of the Jews and the God of Christendom and I answered you....
good grief man....anyone would think I just poisoned you well or something.

How many gods do you think there are?

As you wish....no pressure old fella. (I am older than you BTW)

Pick whatever topic you like and I will discuss whatever subject you choose....

Do you have a short attention span then...? Conversations don't have rules....they have a life of their own usually. But I'll try. OK? Would I be able to ask you to lighten up just a little? Its not enjoyable when it gets too serious.

Time to hit the sack for me too....

Later......

I didn’t expect all that, but thanks for the comments

1. i did not imply that YOU were digging a hole, although it may seem so, sorry
2. I didn’t ask about the God of the Jews vs the God of Christianity. I think if you scroll up you’ll see that’s the question you asked me.
btw, how many Gods do YOU think there are?
3. I’m sorry that you are older than me
4. I have the attention span of a 13 year old boy, or a 6 year old girl (same, same)
5. Please do not get serious on my account. I’m afraid my true personality doesn’t come through well online. Serious is not something that sits well with me, to the displeasure of my parents.

but now, i did find something that we both agree on 100%

thats a good start, right?

Deeje · Jun 21, 2021

Jeremiah Ames said:
I didn’t expect all that, but thanks for the comments

It appears that we got off on the wrong foot.....let’s try again eh?

1. i did not imply that YOU were digging a hole, although it may seem so, sorry

Yes you did....and apology accepted.

2. I didn’t ask about the God of the Jews vs the God of Christianity. I think if you scroll up you’ll see that’s the question you asked me.
btw, how many Gods do YOU think there are?

Real ones? ONE. Fake ones? THOUSANDS.
The God of the Jews was the God of Jesus Christ....the one they left by the constant disobedience and excursions into false worship. Jesus exposed the Religious Leaders of his day as the worst of hypocrites, misrepresenting Yahweh to the people. He was sent to the ”lost sheep”, not to the Religious establishment.

Jesus showed his disciples who their God really was, (by word and deed) but humans being humans, the later Christians, (second century onward) corrupted the concept of God by altering his very nature, splitting him into three entities who could converse with one another and be in different places at the same time...this was not the God whom Jesus represented. So to me, both lost the true God by making him into their own version of him.

3. I’m sorry that you are older than me

Me too....it happened so fast!

My youngest grandson has just got his driver’s licence.

4. I have the attention span of a 13 year old boy, or a 6 year old girl (same, same)

Oh dear, you can’t say that now you know.....no gender specifics or demeaning of females in comparison to males.....very politically incorrect.

The world has gone nuts!!! But it’s not unexpected. It will get worse.

5. Please do not get serious on my account. I’m afraid my true personality doesn’t come through well online. Serious is not something that sits well with me, to the displeasure of my parents.

I can get serious, but I prefer not to as it stifles conversation IMO.
I am the joker in my family and we laugh a lot. I am passionate about my faith and have spent the greater part of my life studying the Bible in depth. I am so happy to say that after 50 years I am still learning and finding many more facets to an already brilliant diamond. I will continue to be a perpetual student.

but now, i did find something that we both agree on 100%

thats a good start, right?

See....it’s possible.

Now where were we???

Jeremiah Ames · Jun 21, 2021

Deeje said:
It appears that we got off on the wrong foot.....let’s try again eh?

Yes you did....and apology accepted.

Real ones? ONE. Fake ones? THOUSANDS.
The God of the Jews was the God of Jesus Christ....the one they left by the constant disobedience and excursions into false worship. Jesus exposed the Religious Leaders of his day as the worst of hypocrites, misrepresenting Yahweh to the people. He was sent to the ”lost sheep”, not to the Religious establishment.

Jesus showed his disciples who their God really was, (by word and deed) but humans being humans, the later Christians, (second century onward) corrupted the concept of God by altering his very nature, splitting him into three entities who could converse with one another and be in different places at the same time...this was not the God whom Jesus represented. So to me, both lost the true God by making him into their own version of him.

Me too....it happened so fast! My youngest grandson has just got his driver’s licence.

Oh dear, you can’t say that now you know.....no gender specifics or demeaning of females in comparison to males.....very politically incorrect. The world has gone nuts!!! But it’s not unexpected. It will get worse.

I can get serious, but I prefer not to as it stifles conversation IMO.
I am the joker in my family and we laugh a lot. I am passionate about my faith and have spent the greater part of my life studying the Bible in depth. I am so happy to say that after 50 years I am still learning and finding many more facets to an already brilliant diamond. I will continue to be a perpetual student.

See....it’s possible.

Now where were we???

great answer regarding the number of gods

when I was comparing attention spans of boys and girls, my comment was giving girls the best grade.
my granddaughter was not too good up to about 7, then all was well
my grandson took a lot longer to arrive at that

i like your last comment; my time period of study is much much shorter, but the comment about the diamond facets definitely resonates

(sorry, I don’t know how to post parts of what you say to respond to each item, so I just have to give the best response I can here at the bottom of yours)

rational experiences · Jun 21, 2021

To believe in Christ.

Christ conditions in heavens before all things.

Christ is holy.

Father first human man spiritual. Mother first human woman spiritual have sex. Female gives birth to newly born innocence.

All children in the eyes of God and the holy lord.

Living in and with the nature garden life protected inside the heavens. Above us only sky.

We live inside the heavens.

We lost paradise to temple pyramid nuclear ground dust fission attacked life.

Father asked you do you believe in the sacrifice of the innocent baby?

No said the baby adult man. But I did believe in the sacrifice of my adult brother.

When you are taught the newly born in any form protected saved your life why did you adult brother ignore his teaching?

We were told the newly born owned life's protection. You gave its status to science and false preached ever since about life being sacrificed as an adult to be holy.

Why we lived confused since.

Why any human said if all children are innocent then why is life harmed.

Have a look who falsely preached....science is satanism.

Deeje · Jun 22, 2021

Jeremiah Ames said:
great answer regarding the number of gods

when I was comparing attention spans of boys and girls, my comment was giving girls the best grade.
my granddaughter was not too good up to about 7, then all was well
my grandson took a lot longer to arrive at that

i like your last comment; my time period of study is much much shorter, but the comment about the diamond facets definitely resonates

Thank you for such a friendly post...see we do have some things in common.

(sorry, I don’t know how to post parts of what you say to respond to each item, so I just have to give the best response I can here at the bottom of yours)

If you highlight the things you want to respond to it will give you the prompt to "quote". click on "quote" and keep highlighting till you get all the points you want to respond to, and then when you scroll down to the text box to reply you will see a prompt to insert quotes. They will all come up and you can hit "quote" or "cancel"....hope that made sense.....

Jeremiah Ames · Jun 22, 2021

Deeje said:
Thank you for such a friendly post...see we do have some things in common.

If you highlight the things you want to respond to it will give you the prompt to "quote". click on "quote" and keep highlighting till you get all the points you want to respond to, and then when you scroll down to the text box to reply you will see a prompt to insert quotes. They will all come up and you can hit "quote" or "cancel"....hope that made sense.....

Deeje said:
Thank you for such a friendly post...see we do have some things in common

Im testing your instructions

Deeje said:
If you highlight the things you want to respond to it will give you the prompt to "quote". click on "quote" and keep highlighting till you get all the points you want to respond to, and then when you scroll down to the text box to reply you will see a prompt to insert quotes. They will all come up and you can hit "quote" or "cancel"....hope that made sense

i will assume it worked

Wildswanderer · Jun 22, 2021

Deeje said:
Jesus promised a man dying alongside of him, who expressed faith in him by asking to be remembered when Jesus came into his Kingdom: “You will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43) Where would the man be? Would that Paradise be located in heaven, on earth, or at some intermediate location where humans await judgment?

Our first parents once lived in Paradise. The Bible tells us that “God planted a garden in Eden, toward the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. . . . And God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it.” (Genesis 2:8, 15) When those words were translated into Greek, the word “garden” was rendered pa·raʹdei·sos, from which came the English word “paradise.”

Just as a couple would enlarge their home when they have more children, so our first parents were expected to expand Paradise beyond the borders of Eden as the human family grew. God told them: “Fill the earth and subdue it.” (Genesis 1:28)

The Creator’s purpose, then, was for humans to live and bear children in Paradise here on earth. They would live forever in an earthly garden with no need for cemeteries. The earth was to become the permanent home for all mankind.....we were created to live on a beautiful earth. There was no natural cause of death ever mentioned until disobedience robbed them of their paradise home.

Has God’s purpose changed? Do we now have the hope of going to heaven instead of remaining on a paradise earth, as God originally intended.....?

What are your thoughts? Where is the "paradise" that Jesus promised to the man who was hung alongside of him? Please use the scriptures for your response....

Because sin has broken this paradise, it will be remade. The believers final home isn't heaven it's the new heavens and new earth.

"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Heaven comes " down" to Earth, but I don't think we should think of heaven as up in space somewhere. More like a different dimension, that will consume this one at the right time.

Deeje · Jun 22, 2021

Jeremiah Ames said:
Im testing your instructions

i will assume it worked

Nailed it!

sojourner · Jun 22, 2021

Deeje said:
Jesus promised a man dying alongside of him, who expressed faith in him by asking to be remembered when Jesus came into his Kingdom: “You will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43) Where would the man be? Would that Paradise be located in heaven, on earth, or at some intermediate location where humans await judgment?

Our first parents once lived in Paradise. The Bible tells us that “God planted a garden in Eden, toward the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. . . . And God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it.” (Genesis 2:8, 15) When those words were translated into Greek, the word “garden” was rendered pa·raʹdei·sos, from which came the English word “paradise.”

Just as a couple would enlarge their home when they have more children, so our first parents were expected to expand Paradise beyond the borders of Eden as the human family grew. God told them: “Fill the earth and subdue it.” (Genesis 1:28)

The Creator’s purpose, then, was for humans to live and bear children in Paradise here on earth. They would live forever in an earthly garden with no need for cemeteries. The earth was to become the permanent home for all mankind.....we were created to live on a beautiful earth. There was no natural cause of death ever mentioned until disobedience robbed them of their paradise home.

Has God’s purpose changed? Do we now have the hope of going to heaven instead of remaining on a paradise earth, as God originally intended.....?

What are your thoughts? Where is the "paradise" that Jesus promised to the man who was hung alongside of him? Please use the scriptures for your response....

My thoughts are that this represents an irresponsible interpretation of the texts in question, and any argument made from such interpretation is untenable.

Jeremiah Ames · Jun 22, 2021

Wildswanderer said:
Because sin has broken this paradise, it will be remade. The believers final home isn't heaven it's the new heavens and new earth.

"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Heaven comes " down" to Earth, but I don't think we should think of heaven as up in space somewhere. More like a different dimension, that will consume this one at the right time.

is it possible that the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, is coming down from heaven?

right now?

is it possible that all of Revelation, has already been fulfilled?

is it possible for each of us to witness this New Jerusalem coming down?

right now?

I cannot find in the Bible where it says Heaven comes down to earth.
It does say the New Jerusalem comes down.

why do I ask if it’s not possible that all these things are here now?
Luke 17:21 “the kingdom of God is within you”

didn’t heaven already come, long ago?

Jeremiah Ames · Jun 22, 2021

Deeje said:
Nailed it!

i have a new tool, thanks to you Deeje

sojourner · Jun 22, 2021

Jeremiah Ames said:
this is from the King James Version
(this is the version I usually use, since it doesn’t mangle the true intent of the original manuscripts as much as others)

The KJV is not the most accurate translation. There are others (NRSV, for example) that are more accurate and that make use of texts that are older.

Jeremiah Ames · Jun 22, 2021

sojourner said:
The KJV is not the most accurate translation. There are others (NRSV, for example) that are more accurate and that make use of texts that are older.

the others are newer ones written with apparent biases, which do not detract from the message
(as long as someone is not prooftexting to support some idea)

i prefer the KJV since I cannot read Hebrew or Greek, but I try to get a big picture by reading through many versions, including NRSV

Wildswanderer · Jun 22, 2021

Jeremiah Ames said:
is it possible that the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, is coming down from heaven?

right now?

is it possible that all of Revelation, has already been fulfilled?

is it possible for each of us to witness this New Jerusalem coming down?

right now?

I cannot find in the Bible where it says Heaven comes down to earth.
It does say the New Jerusalem comes down.

why do I ask if it’s not possible that all these things are here now?
Luke 17:21 “the kingdom of God is within you”

didn’t heaven already come, long ago?

Are you a full preterist?
This world is full of evil still. Sure doesn't look like the New Jerusalem to me. It's not only Revelation that talks about a new Earth.

From Peter:"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

Isaiah 65:17–19
"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, and her people a joy. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people; the voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, nor the voice of crying."

Zechariah 9:10
"I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim and the horse from Jerusalem; the battle bow shall be cut off. He shall speak peace to the nations; His dominion shall be 'from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.' "

Does this sound like the world we live in now?

Or this?:

Isaiah 11:6–9
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."

sojourner · Jun 22, 2021

Jeremiah Ames said:
the others are newer ones written with apparent biases, which do not detract from the message
(as long as someone is not prooftexting to support some idea)

i prefer the KJV since I cannot read Hebrew or Greek, but I try to get a big picture by reading through many versions, including NRSV

The NRSV does a really good job of filtering out bias.

Fallen Prophet · Jun 22, 2021

Deeje said:
Jesus promised a man dying alongside of him, who expressed faith in him by asking to be remembered when Jesus came into his Kingdom: “You will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43) Where would the man be? Would that Paradise be located in heaven, on earth, or at some intermediate location where humans await judgment?

Our first parents once lived in Paradise. The Bible tells us that “God planted a garden in Eden, toward the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. . . . And God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it.” (Genesis 2:8, 15) When those words were translated into Greek, the word “garden” was rendered pa·raʹdei·sos, from which came the English word “paradise.”

Just as a couple would enlarge their home when they have more children, so our first parents were expected to expand Paradise beyond the borders of Eden as the human family grew. God told them: “Fill the earth and subdue it.” (Genesis 1:28)

The Creator’s purpose, then, was for humans to live and bear children in Paradise here on earth. They would live forever in an earthly garden with no need for cemeteries. The earth was to become the permanent home for all mankind.....we were created to live on a beautiful earth. There was no natural cause of death ever mentioned until disobedience robbed them of their paradise home.

Has God’s purpose changed? Do we now have the hope of going to heaven instead of remaining on a paradise earth, as God originally intended.....?

What are your thoughts? Where is the "paradise" that Jesus promised to the man who was hung alongside of him? Please use the scriptures for your response....

I believe that Paradise is the description of the state of the spirits of the righteous as they await the hour of their Resurrection.

As opposed to Prison and Hell.

I do not believe it to be a reference to either Heaven or the Garden of Eden - for it is a temporary state.

For Christians: What is Paradise? Is it Heaven?

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