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Two Kinds of Religion

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
I'd say the word 'Pagan' is just about meaningless.

Like many words, pagan is elusive but not meaningless. Its current meaning has been shaped from the events since Gerald Gardner developed the wiccan path in the 1940's and 1950's (by the way the witch law's were revoked in England in 1951 when the Fraudulent Mediums act was implemented and that was not repealed until 2008). Once his practice became very public a large diversity of religions immerged all adopting the term pagan as a sense of connection. I still think it has a functional meaning of identification as long as one understands that there is no one Pagan religion.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
It seems to me that unless the pagan religions accept the one true God of the Abrahamic religions they are no more tolerant than the Abrahamic religions. The polytheists and the monotheists are at odds with each other by virtue of what they believe -- many gods vs. one God.
There are Pagan monotheists.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
For pagan religions the ultimate source of knowledge is from nature itself. The are beliefs like the Otherworld, ex the sidhe, but although different it is still within the universe and one can enter it at certain times. The source for Abrahamic religions is from outside of the universe and supernatural. It comes from a god that is not in the Natural world.
This is what is meant by top down vs bottom up. The one has a revelatory experience and the other hasn't. One has Gods and spirits that are part of the created order while the other has a supernatural God Who tells folks what He wants. These two conceptions are clearly not describing the same thing, imo.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that unless the pagan religions accept the one true God of the Abrahamic religions they are no more tolerant than the Abrahamic religions. The polytheists and the monotheists are at odds with each other by virtue of what they believe -- many gods vs. one God.

No that is not true. By the very nature of knowing that there is not just one god that you must accept or else you are damned, pagan religions are particularly accepting of other religions. The opposite is true of the Abrahamic religions. If you do not believe in our one true god you must be wrong, deceived, unsaved, heading for hell, ignorant, and so on. I have heard them all. Now if you believe that the Abrahamic god is just one of many but happens to be the one right for you and the other people with their deities are right for them then we have true tolerance.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
This is what is meant by top down vs bottom up. The one has a revelatory experience and the other hasn't. One has Gods and spirits that are part of the created order while the other has a supernatural God Who tells folks what He wants. These two conceptions are clearly not describing the same thing, imo.

No, but both function as religions. They provide to their followers the way to live within that religions. Some more strict than others.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There are Pagan monotheists.
But as Wild Fox just said, the word pagan is elusive; what does it mean?
I used to think it meant people who don't believe in God before I came to this forum.

It does not matter if they are polytheists or monotheists. The point I want to make is that unless a religion accepts people of other religions, that religion is at odds with other religions and that causes strife and disunity. That does not mean we have to share the beliefs of all other religions because that would be impossible It just means we should accept people for whatever they believe or disbelieve.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
To me there are two (2) choices: one kind of religion is false, and one kind of religion is religious truth.

I think it is too harsh to call the Abrahamic religion a false religion. For those following the Abrahamic they feel their religion has meaning so calling it false is just too intolerant. Anyway there are many ways to find religious truth and not just through the pagan religions.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
No that is not true. By the very nature of knowing that there is not just one god that you must accept or else you are damned, pagan religions are particularly accepting of other religions. The opposite is true of the Abrahamic religions. If you do not believe in our one true god you must be wrong, deceived, unsaved, heading for hell, ignorant, and so on. I have heard them all. Now if you believe that the Abrahamic god is just one of many but happens to be the one right for you and the other people with their deities are right for them then we have true tolerance.
I understand your point, but the way I think there is either one God or there are many gods. Both cannot he true because they are contradictory. I do not view religion as a shopping trip, looking for a religion that is the best fit for one's lifestyle and personality. A true seeker should want to know the truth about God, whatever it is.

People who believe in the one God of the Abrahamic religions should not tell others who do not believe that that they are wrong, deceived, unsaved, heading for hell, ignorant, etc. I don' think they should be thinking that way either because if they think that way eventually they are going to act that way.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
So a true Christian wouldn't practice anything that is judgmental toward anyone as far as judging to condemn.

Like the Christian lady today who called me “a dirty rotten sinner”? I’m serious.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Like the Christian lady today who called me “a dirty rotten sinner”? I’m serious.

Well technically she didn't condemn you to doom. She would also mind her own salvation from her own sinfulness though. I suppose that would be her passionate opposition to you. She didn't do anything worse I take it.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
It seems to me that unless the pagan religions accept the one true God of the Abrahamic religions they are no more tolerant than the Abrahamic religions. The polytheists and the monotheists are at odds with each other by virtue of what they believe -- many gods vs. one God.

It’s not a matter of intolerance on the part of Pagans, it’s a matter of non-acceptance, non-belief, indifference. The intolerance I see is on the part of the monotheists... if I had a nickel for every time I was called, or heard a Hindu or Pagan called an idol-worshiper, fooled by demons, worshiper of false gods and the whole litany, I could buy my own island. That and being called to repent and accept Jesus in my heart. I mentioned earlier that just today a “Christian” lady called me a dirty rotten sinner” because I don’t worship Yahweh, being deceived by the devil; but I’ll rethink my ways when I stand before Yahweh to be judged. Unfortunately, she told me, it will be too late. That doesn’t sound very tolerant to me.

But I have yet to hear Pagans or Hindus do the same. Hinduism acknowledges the existence of gods outside the Hindu pantheon as being all part of One. I accept the existence of Yahweh, but I don’t worship him any more than I worship the Yoruba Orishas, though I acknowledge their existence.

So to sum it up, Pagans are far more tolerant and respectful of the Abrahamic religions than vice versa. Unless I’m misinterpreting it, your own statement “unless the pagan religions accept the one true God of the Abrahamic religions” is as intolerant as it gets. Have I misunderstood? It happens. :p
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
With different religions covering such widely differing aspects, a person can hold several different religions and still not have to be syncretic about it. Imagine that. ;)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So to sum it up, Pagans are far more tolerant and respectful of the Abrahamic religions than vice versa. Unless I’m misinterpreting it, your own statement “unless the pagan religions accept the one true God of the Abrahamic religions” is as intolerant as it gets. Have I misunderstood? It happens.
My point was that unless pagan religions accept the one true God of the Abrahamic religions they are no more tolerant than Abrahamic religions who do not accept the many gods of the pagan religions.
 
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