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Matthew 8:11 And a website I found.

F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
In Mattthew 8:11 It says Abraham is already in heaven.And it mentions abraham a second time.That he is in heaven.But this time it is called Abraham's bosom.

Luke 16:19-31--The rich man and Lazarus. When the poor man Lazarus died he was "carried away by the angels" to Abraham's bosom (paradise). When the rich man died he went to Hades (hell) and was in torment. He was able to carry on a conversation with Abraham, who was on the other side of the chasm (v.26). Abraham, who lived before Moses and the Prophets, told the rich man that his five brothers had "Moses and the Prophets" so the rich man and Lazarus lived after these books had been written. This clearly proves consciousness beyond the grave of people who lived during different times on earth. Those who believe in soul-sleep try to dismiss this verse saying it is "just a parable." Even if it were a "just a parable" (which it isn't), Jesus always taught parables to illustrate truth. These verses are clear: No soul-sleep.

I found this on this website:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.clov...8256-2b8bc499f91b/documents/No_Soul_Sleep.pdf

This just to bother me as a jw.But now that I am not one.It doesn't.
 
Last edited:
Neuropteron

Neuropteron

Active Member
Frank Goad said:
In Mattthew 8:11 It says Abraham is already in heaven.And it mentions abraham a second time.That he is in heaven.But this time it is called Abraham's bosom.

Luke 16:19-31--The rich man and Lazarus. When the poor man Lazarus died he was "carried away by the angels" to Abraham's bosom (paradise). When the rich man died he went to Hades (hell) and was in torment. He was able to carry on a conversation with Abraham, who was on the other side of the chasm (v.26). Abraham, who lived before Moses and the Prophets, told the rich man that his five brothers had "Moses and the Prophets" so the rich man and Lazarus lived after these books had been written. This clearly proves consciousness beyond the grave of people who lived during different times on earth. Those who believe in soul-sleep try to dismiss this verse saying it is "just a parable." Even if it were a "just a parable" (which it isn't), Jesus always taught parables to illustrate truth. These verses are clear: No soul-sleep.

I found this on this website:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.clov...8256-2b8bc499f91b/documents/No_Soul_Sleep.pdf

This just to bother me as a jw.But now that I am not one.It doesn't.
Click to expand...

Hi,
Lazarus could not have been in heaven since Jesus was the first to obtain a heavenly resurrection.
The answer is to be found in the fact that the Lazarus and the rich man is an illustration.
Each of the character in this illustration represent either a single individual or a group, For example Abraham represents Jehovah.
 
Dogknox20

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Frank Goad said:
In Mattthew 8:11 It says Abraham is already in heaven.And it mentions abraham a second time.That he is in heaven.But this time it is called Abraham's bosom.

Luke 16:19-31--The rich man and Lazarus. When the poor man Lazarus died he was "carried away by the angels" to Abraham's bosom (paradise). When the rich man died he went to Hades (hell) and was in torment. He was able to carry on a conversation with Abraham, who was on the other side of the chasm (v.26). Abraham, who lived before Moses and the Prophets, told the rich man that his five brothers had "Moses and the Prophets" so the rich man and Lazarus lived after these books had been written. This clearly proves consciousness beyond the grave of people who lived during different times on earth. Those who believe in soul-sleep try to dismiss this verse saying it is "just a parable." Even if it were a "just a parable" (which it isn't), Jesus always taught parables to illustrate truth. These verses are clear: No soul-sleep.

I found this on this website:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.clov...8256-2b8bc499f91b/documents/No_Soul_Sleep.pdf

This just to bother me as a jw.But now that I am not one.It doesn't.
Click to expand...
.
Frank Goad The saved are Abrahams children! Abraham addresses the Rich Man as "Son"! If the Rich Man was in Hell (Gehenna) he would be son of Satan!
The Rich Man address Abraham as "Father" if he was in (Gehenna) Satan would be his Father!
Frank Goad the Rich man has Compassion he is concerned for his brothers left on earth! If the Rich Man was in Gehenna he would be full overflowing with HATE! NO ONE....

Frank Goad no one would want to cross over into "Gehenna" BUT....

But some might want to cross over into "Sheol" (the abode of the dead)!
No one can cross but Jesus can; God can do all things.. Jesus will get the Rich Man once he has been "Sanctified" Jesus will bring the Rich man into the Kingdom no one can enter heaven with sins!!

Matthew 3:9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
Romans 9:8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
Galatians 3:7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.
 
F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Frank Goad said:
In Mattthew 8:11 It says Abraham is already in heaven.And it mentions abraham a second time.That he is in heaven.But this time it is called Abraham's bosom.

Luke 16:19-31--The rich man and Lazarus. When the poor man Lazarus died he was "carried away by the angels" to Abraham's bosom (paradise). When the rich man died he went to Hades (hell) and was in torment. He was able to carry on a conversation with Abraham, who was on the other side of the chasm (v.26). Abraham, who lived before Moses and the Prophets, told the rich man that his five brothers had "Moses and the Prophets" so the rich man and Lazarus lived after these books had been written. This clearly proves consciousness beyond the grave of people who lived during different times on earth. Those who believe in soul-sleep try to dismiss this verse saying it is "just a parable." Even if it were a "just a parable" (which it isn't), Jesus always taught parables to illustrate truth. These verses are clear: No soul-sleep.

I found this on this website:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.clov...8256-2b8bc499f91b/documents/No_Soul_Sleep.pdf

This just to bother me as a jw.But now that I am not one.It doesn't.
Click to expand...

I just don't get why jesus made it sound like it was something that happened at two different times in history.:confused:If it was a parable.:confused:
 
RabbiO

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
Frank Goad said:
This just to bother me as a jw.But now that I am not one.It doesn't.
Click to expand...
How many times to date have the Jehovah's Witnesses members on this forum explained to you that you never were a member of that faith?
 
Dogknox20

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Frank Goad said:
I just don't get why Jesus made it sound like it was something that happened at two different times in history. :confused:If it was a parable.:confused:
Click to expand...
Frank Goad thank you for your question..
Question is it a Parable? Jesus used proper names... beggar named "Lazarus" in his story! Clearly the Rich Man and Lazarus were conscience after there death!
 
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