"I believe in science, I don't believe in God"

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

BilliardsBall said:

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

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If you think that God is necessary to feel awe, then I kind of pity you.

And if you think that atheists can't "stand in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves" be "moved by beautiful art or music," or be "inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice," then I suggest you reflect on where this prejudice is coming from.

BilliardsBall said:

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

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Science doesn't deal with everything.

And saying that science doesn't work with terms like justice and love in the way you want it to, is perfectly fine, no problem there. But that doesn't mean that religion does then, that is a fallacy.

Exactly as saying "If A is not equal B, then C must be". How do you demonstrate that religion holds the truth or know anything about justice or love, in the way you want it to? If you can't then you are equally as good as answering that question as science is.

BilliardsBall said:

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul.

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I tend to think this belief is their soul's reaction to knowledge acquired, not the absence of a soul.

BilliardsBall said:

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

Click to expand...

Most scientist are christian or hold other religious views. Science is the first to say it doesn't know, it's just a theory. I only heard christians say they know. Science and religion are not rivals-at least from a scientific view.

BilliardsBall said:

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

Click to expand...

Well, all one has to do is make science and God meet, and the mystery is over.

So far, God hasn't showed up.

"I believe in science, I don't believe in God"

BilliardsBall said:

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

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Way to go. Your thread title sure got me suckered into reading the thread.

BilliardsBall said:

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

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That's a strawman beloved by apologists. I challenge you to post some references that support your nonsensical assertion.

BilliardsBall said:

But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

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In this secular country, you get justice in a courtroom. Not in a grocery store or in a church. Do you have problem with that?

BilliardsBall said:

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul.

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That's another strawman beloved by apologists. I challenge you to post some references to people who believe "the physical, the material, is all that exists".

BilliardsBall said:

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

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And now you are proselytizing.

BilliardsBall said:

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

Click to expand...

Wrong, science does not have all the answers, it has some and is working to find others just so long as there is evidence.

But you can connect to the internet and fly around the world. And of course gas from the gas station, if you want love i suggest those selling love outside the gas station are not who you should be going to.

I don't have a soul to begin with so no loss. Actually what separates us from other animals can also be science... However i have never seen an animal blow up a city centre or fly a plane into a building.


How do you know animals cannot appreciate beauty? And i know for sure my cat enjoys good music.

It seems to me you consider the human animal superior to non human animals and i consider that a sad way to be.

The OP title reminds me of this film one of my favorite films:

Its Nacho Libre's friend, Esquelito in a hilarious film. Just before he says "I hate all the orphans" this person says "I don't believe in God. I believe in Science!"

Both Esquelito and Nacho are caricatures. They aren't real, but the point I take is that we are all very limited in our perceptual scope. Neither of these two are very smart, yet they both feel absolutely certain that they hold a reasonable position...and life goes on ignoring them both.

The only person I've ever heard say anything remotely like "I don't believe in God. I believe in Science" was a Chinese national I met in community college. He had thought about God when he was younger but then decided God was absolute bunk, and he was 100% about it. He was all about his career and accomplishing his goals. I on the other hand was very much like Nacho.

BilliardsBall said:

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

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I don't know of a single scientist who would ever say something like that. A huge part of dealing with evidence is for us to realize also what we don't have.

BilliardsBall said:

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

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So, what about all the people who lived in the generations before Jesus? And what about all the people in today's world that really don't know much or even anything about Jesus?

BilliardsBall said:

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

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In this aspect of life, this is where the social sciences might come into play (although some don't consider to be the same as the natural sciences). Philosophy, political science, sociology, and other social sciences might examine questions of justice - and even love and righteousness. But no God is required for that; people can figure it out on their own, as they've already been doing for millennia.

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

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I think people might be inclined to believe things that they can see or feel for themselves. This doesn't necessarily confine one's belief solely to the physical or the material, but other than things we can feel and know first-hand, we have to rely on other people to supply us with information about the world and universe we live in. That's the tricky part, since a lot of people might outright lie - or at the very least, they might talk about things they can't possibly have any direct knowledge of.

BilliardsBall said:

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

Click to expand...

Say, "O believers,
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

BilliardsBall said:

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

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I accept that you used to believe in science as if it were a belief system. That seems to fit with your apparent limited understanding of science.

BilliardsBall said:

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

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That seems to be the view of hard core, literalist minions, but it is incorrect.

BilliardsBall said:

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

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Science is the tool through which knowledge can be obtained. Didn't what? What does that mean?

BilliardsBall said:

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

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I can't order three pounds of uranium with science either. That whole ScienceDash things is a bust.

BilliardsBall said:

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

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We cannot even show that a soul exists and here you are claiming there are two of them. What flavors? The Upsole and the Downsole? Atheists can reject science and love music, art and starry nights.

BilliardsBall said:

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

Click to expand...

This is personal belief and irrelevant in the context of your claims. I thank God for giving me the ability to learn and acquire knowledge, the capacity to love the natural world, to rise in awe and curiosity at the wonder I find in it and the ability to challenge baseless claims.

Lots of Christians I know cannot tell the difference between bees and flies and anything that crawls is a copperhead. Accepting Christ can do a lot, but it doesn't give you full knowledge of the universe.

BilliardsBall said:

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

Click to expand...

That's OK.
You can believe what you like.
No Probs.

BilliardsBall said:

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

Click to expand...

I don't see the two being connected. I believe in science as a means of obtaining knowledge - that is both useful to us although often is not, but one can't necessarily ignore the latter - but I don't tend to believe in God because it seems a step too far - as an explanation for all things if one wanted to see it that way. We, as a species, are still learning about ourselves and the universe, and although it might be convenient to have a neat explanation (in the form of God) for much we still don't understand (particularly our origins and that of the universe), unless one was particularly biased in some manner, the evidence (to me) just doesn't indicate such.

The concept of the soul seems to me an invention to separate us from other life - indicated by your 'mere animals' - and which to me is one of our more basic mistakes, and possibly accounts for why we are making a mess of this planet, much other life, and our own futures. It seems to me it is mainly our intelligence, knowledge, and abilities that separates us from other animal life, and we should thank our past ancestors for that more than anything - every dumb one of them, given that most never got the chance to put their thoughts into archive material. It's rather obvious though that much of other animal life isn't dumb, despite their apparent lack of a soul.

I suspect in my atheist life I have had just as many awe-inspiring moments as you have had, possibly have as reasonable a moral nature as you have, and suspect that my beliefs would cause less harm to others than many religious beliefs might cause.

BilliardsBall said:

I can see why some feel that way, I used to feel that way, too.

The concept that science has all the answers has been growing in the secular world.

Science is based on the scientific method, a process by which truth is discovered, including objective observation, testing, hypotheses, etc. To those who boast in the scientific method, I say, "Big deal. I've never known anyone who didn't."

Science is invaluable and helps us measure and quantify physical matter and energy. But I can't order three pounds of justice at the grocery store or a half-gallon of love and righteousness at the gas station.

When a person believes the physical, the material, is all that exists, I contend they lose their soul. I'm not referring to their eternal soul, even though that is obviously forfeited as well. I'm referring to their soul now, that which makes them human and separates them from mere animals. The soul is that part of us that stands in awe of a starry night or the ocean waves, that is moved by beautiful art or music, and that is inspired by selfless courage or loving self-sacrifice.

I thank God for awakening my soul, redeeming and restoring it. Per the Bible, anyone who trusts Jesus has eternal life--and a soul that is alive and well.

Click to expand...

DNA evidence has been used to verify the innocence of people charged with crimes and it has been used to show the guilt of others. So, you can get justice using science. I am not sure how many pounds that is. I am entirely uneducated on the material quantification of justice.

Of course many people have been unjustly condemned by the whim of believers.

Twilight Hue said:

Well, all one has to do is make science and God meet, and the mystery is over.

So far, God hasn't showed up.

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"God" is what science is studying.

PureX said:

"God" is what science is studying.

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Can't study what's not there.

Where could science start the study?

Twilight Hue said:

Can't study what's not there.

Where could science start the study?

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'God' is the 'source, sustenance, and purpose of all that is'. And that is what science seeks to understand. It is also what religions seek to understand. And philosophers. And artists. Science focuses on and is limited to physical functionality, but the ultimate quest remains the same through all these disciplines.

PureX said:

"God" is what science is studying.

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Provide the evidence for god and science will study that evidence. As it stands science studies the natural world for which there is evidence. If you want to believe that the natural world is god then that's your belief, not the belief of science.