Noah's flood story, did it happen?

Jose Fly said:

To be honest, I've found it very difficult to maintain interest in our discussion, given the number of days between posts and how many times I've had this sort of discussion before. So I'll just summarize what I see as the key points.

First, I didn't mean to say or imply that religious people are completely lacking in critical thinking skills, and they only acquire them in college. I thought I and others had made that clear earlier. The point is, we all have some level of critical thinking skills and college is one means by which people enhance them, which could be a primary factor in people leaving religion during their college years.

Now on to the main point, namely prayers being answered and receiving revelations from gods. I'll be blunt....I've heard pretty much everything you've said in response to what I told you about my past experiences and such many, many times before and I've never found any of it persuasive. In fact, from my perspective it makes the whole deal even less believable. Like I said, it depicts a god who in response to people desperately seeking its help, guidance, input, or even presence is like "You didn't ask the right way", or as you put it "You aren't ready for the answers", so just leaves everyone hanging and does absolutely nothing to make anything better. If a person did that, we'd instantly recognize them as being an inconsiderate jerk, but when it comes to gods believers make up all sorts of excuses to explain why their gods just aren't there.

Also, don't assume that my experiences with Christianity ended when I was 15. Later in life I reexamined the faith, including attending different churches and meeting with church leaders. In short, I saw the same fundamental problems with the faith and got the same unsatisfying and (at times) ridiculous answers as before. So I finally decided that Christianity just isn't for me. Then after looking at other religions and such, I ended up concluding that I am simply not a religious person and religion just does not resonate with me at all. And to be clear, I'm very happy and satisfied with that. It's who I am and I feel I'm being true to my nature.

Regarding your religious experiences, I apologize if it seemed like I was trying to dissuade you away from them. We all have our own experiences and backgrounds, and far be it from me to try and act as if I can speak authoritatively about what you've been through.

And that brings me to my final point, i.e., the difference between your reaction to my experiences and my reaction to yours. When I told you about mine and how they didn't agree with yours, you immediately went into apologetics mode and spent a great deal of time trying to explain away my conclusion, persuade me that I'd done something incorrectly, and should try it all over again. But when you told me about your experiences, I didn't do that. Sure, I shared some of my thoughts about it all, but that's literally all it was....me saying "this is what I think", not anything like "well this is where you were wrong".

That's an interesting psychological dynamic and seems to be yet another important and fundamental difference between us. You tell me about your experiences and I mostly just shrug and think "that's nice". I tell you about mine and you immediately start trying to convince me that I had it all wrong. You could have just said "Well, I hope it all works out for you" or something like that. That you didn't is rather fascinating from a human behavior standpoint, but that's another topic.

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I am having trouble maintaining interest myself. It seems to be the same old same old to bring up an old cliche to match a tired topic.

Dan From Smithville said:

I am having trouble maintaining interest myself. It seems to be the same old same old to bring up an old cliche to match a tired topic.

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That, and 3-5 days between posts. It can be an interesting topic, but not under those circumstances.

Fallen Prophet said:

Yet - it still makes it the only event of the Fall described in the scriptures.

You have yet to offer any alternatives.

What evidence? Why haven't you shared this evidence as part of your claim?

I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ would consider faith in the narrative of the scriptures a strength - not a weakness.

And yes - any story of the scriptures being a simple allegory would make it "mere".

Think if the story of the Lord Jesus Christ was only an allegory - wouldn't that make it "mere"?

So - you believe in the literal Creation of Adam and Eve who were responsible for the Fall of Mankind - yet consider their story to be "the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence"?

Because the "points" of the Adam and Eve story were that they were our literal first parents who partook of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and became mortal.

You can't believe it is an allegory - or that they were "symbolic fictional figures" - and also believe that the "points" of their story are literally true.

Yes - you have offered no alternatives.

You are referring to the Creation here - not the Fall of Man.

There is only one version of the Fall of Man - which is recorded in Genesis 3.

However - I believe that the first two Creative chapters can be explained as not "two versions" - but as a spiritual organization first and a physical formation second.

You are claiming that you don't know what actually happened - while insisting that it is impossible for Adam and Eve to be nothing more than fictional characters.

You understand that you cannot do both of these things - right? That this makes no sense?

Either you know (or believe) what the actual events are or you don't.

Unless you are claiming to have had some kind of revelation where you only got pieces of information and not the whole thing?

Yet - that wouldn't be considered "evidence" - would it?

You don't even seem to know what to have faith in.

And who is to say that anything else in the Bible - including the concept of faith - is not merely fictional?

You claim there is evidence for your belief that Adam and Eve were fictional characters - but I have yet to see it.

You claim that despite this evidence proving that Adam and Eve were fictional characters - that you believe the "points" of the allegory are still true?

You claim that my believing the Genesis account - which is referenced by the writers of the New Testament as if they were real events - means that my faith is weak?

And you believe that your innate ability to discern which parts of the Bible should be considered fictional makes your faith stronger?

I just see a lot of inconsistency wishful thinking.

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The evidence of biology. The fact that there are two different stories going on there. There were probably a number of different versions and those were the two that got written down and molded into one.

I am referring to the beginning chapters of Genesis.

So I can't determine what has validity in the Bible, but you can. Hypocrisy much?

So the parables are mere stories to you too. Which is it dude?

If my view gives you trouble, you may want to explore the basis of your own faith. Sounds like you have some issues to iron out.

Jose Fly said:

That, and 3-5 days between posts. It can be an interesting topic, but not under those circumstances.

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I agree. That is part of it.

Jose Fly said:

To be honest, I've found it very difficult to maintain interest in our discussion, given the number of days between posts and how many times I've had this sort of discussion before. So I'll just summarize what I see as the key points.

First, I didn't mean to say or imply that religious people are completely lacking in critical thinking skills, and they only acquire them in college. I thought I and others had made that clear earlier. The point is, we all have some level of critical thinking skills and college is one means by which people enhance them, which could be a primary factor in people leaving religion during their college years.

Now on to the main point, namely prayers being answered and receiving revelations from gods. I'll be blunt....I've heard pretty much everything you've said in response to what I told you about my past experiences and such many, many times before and I've never found any of it persuasive. In fact, from my perspective it makes the whole deal even less believable. Like I said, it depicts a god who in response to people desperately seeking its help, guidance, input, or even presence is like "You didn't ask the right way", or as you put it "You aren't ready for the answers", so just leaves everyone hanging and does absolutely nothing to make anything better. If a person did that, we'd instantly recognize them as being an inconsiderate jerk, but when it comes to gods believers make up all sorts of excuses to explain why their gods just aren't there.

Also, don't assume that my experiences with Christianity ended when I was 15. Later in life I reexamined the faith, including attending different churches and meeting with church leaders. In short, I saw the same fundamental problems with the faith and got the same unsatisfying and (at times) ridiculous answers as before. So I finally decided that Christianity just isn't for me. Then after looking at other religions and such, I ended up concluding that I am simply not a religious person and religion just does not resonate with me at all. And to be clear, I'm very happy and satisfied with that. It's who I am and I feel I'm being true to my nature.

Regarding your religious experiences, I apologize if it seemed like I was trying to dissuade you away from them. We all have our own experiences and backgrounds, and far be it from me to try and act as if I can speak authoritatively about what you've been through.

And that brings me to my final point, i.e., the difference between your reaction to my experiences and my reaction to yours. When I told you about mine and how they didn't agree with yours, you immediately went into apologetics mode and spent a great deal of time trying to explain away my conclusion, persuade me that I'd done something incorrectly, and should try it all over again. But when you told me about your experiences, I didn't do that. Sure, I shared some of my thoughts about it all, but that's literally all it was....me saying "this is what I think", not anything like "well this is where you were wrong".

That's an interesting psychological dynamic and seems to be yet another important and fundamental difference between us. You tell me about your experiences and I mostly just shrug and think "that's nice". I tell you about mine and you immediately start trying to convince me that I had it all wrong. You could have just said "Well, I hope it all works out for you" or something like that. That you didn't is rather fascinating from a human behavior standpoint, but that's another topic.

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If you are done you are done - but I have to say that all this started when you came to me - not I to you.

You began this discussion by commenting on my post where you related your experience with Christianity.

Then as our discussion progressed you asked my opinion about God as well as your experiences.

And when you related your experiences to me I told you what I thought about them.

I told you some of what I believed people needed to do in order to receive revelation.

The only thing I said you did "wrong" was your expectation to come to know these things as a child.

I still believe that that was unreasonable thing - but your were a kid - so it makes sense.

And after you said I was free to share my experiences you claimed that I was delusional and intimated that I was a crazy person.

You are never going to receive any answer from God if you don't believe He exists or if you believe He cannot speak to you.

I think you are just angry at Christians in general and decided to take it out on me.

I still contend that you claimed in your OP that religious people have no critical thinking skills until they get to college - because that is what your OP said.

Your OP never even attempted to tackle other issues faced by young people venturing out into the horrible college-life scene that might have affect them.

God isn't going to tell you anything until you are ready for it. It's like how we don't explain everything to our children until we know they can handle it.

God bless you.

Dan From Smithville said:

I am not looking to offer alternative. Viewing it as allegory does not require some alternative story line.

I don't have any evidence. No one does. Why do you think I have evidence? Evidence for what?

The story as allegory is not mere. That is your biased opinion.

You are either very confused or very dishonest.

I didn't say anything about your faith and a lot of things you are rattling on about here.

There is no evidence that Adam and Eve were real people. Can you get your head wrapped around that.

Approaching my faith like an adult is probably what makes it stronger.

You have a beautiful day.

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In Post #471 you said, "I consider it an allegory, based on the evidence."

Which is what led me to ask you about this supposed evidence.

And now you are saying that there is no evidence?

Basically - you have not given any reason to believe that the story of Adam and Eve is simply allegorical.

The Genesis account does not present it as an allegory and the story of a literal Fall explains the need for a literal Redemption.

No one said that you had to believe that Adam and Eve were real people - but them being real makes a lot more sense than them being fictional.

Unless - of course - you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is fictional as well - in that case your argument would make sense.

But if you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was a real person - the literal Son of God - then all you have offered is inconcsistency.

Jose Fly said:

That, and 3-5 days between posts. It can be an interesting topic, but not under those circumstances.

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I was unaware of any expiration on conversations.

You can try to blame me for you derailing the conversation - but you're just lying to yourself.

Fallen Prophet said:

If you are done you are done - but I have to say that all this started when you came to me - not I to you.

You began this discussion by commenting on my post where you related your experience with Christianity.

Then as our discussion progressed you asked my opinion about God as well as your experiences.

And when you related your experiences to me I told you what I thought about them.

I told you some of what I believed people needed to do in order to receive revelation.

The only thing I said you did "wrong" was your expectation to come to know these things as a child.

I still believe that that was unreasonable thing - but your were a kid - so it makes sense.

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To reiterate, it so much wasn't the subject matter that made me lose interest, it was mostly the time between posts.

And after you said I was free to share my experiences you claimed that I was delusional and intimated that I was a crazy person.

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I'm very sorry about that. Please accept my apologies.

You are never going to receive any answer from God if you don't believe He exists or if you believe He cannot speak to you.

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Sounds like this god is a petulant child.

I think you are just angry at Christians in general and decided to take it out on me.

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Well that would be weird, since my wife, most of my family, and many of my friends are Christians. I'm sure they'd all be very surprised to hear that I'm angry at them.

I still contend that you claimed in your OP that religious people have no critical thinking skills until they get to college - because that is what your OP said.

Your OP never even attempted to tackle other issues faced by young people venturing out into the horrible college-life scene that might have affect them.

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Your opinions are noted.

God isn't going to tell you anything until you are ready for it. It's like how we don't explain everything to our children until we know they can handle it.

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Again, this god seems rather childish.

Dan From Smithville said:

The evidence of biology.

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Such as?

Dan From Smithville said:

The fact that there are two different stories going on there.

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I don't see two stories.

Dan From Smithville said:

There were probably a number of different versions and those were the two that got written down and molded into one.

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But you just said there were two. So is it one version or two?

Dan From Smithville said:

I am referring to the beginning chapters of Genesis.

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I understand - but you are referring to the Creation chapters in your attempt to argue against the validity of the Fall recorded in Genesis.

They aren't the same topic - even if they were recorded one right after the other.

Dan From Smithville said:

So I can't determine what has validity in the Bible, but you can. Hypocrisy much?

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I never said anything was valid or not.

What I said was if there was no literal Fall there is no literal Redemption.

If you can argue that Adam and Eve were not real then what is stopping you from arguing that the Lord Jesus Christ wasn't real?

Dan From Smithville said:

So the parables are mere stories to you too. Which is it dude?

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The parables were presented as such. He often said He was about to relate a parable.

The Israelites claimed that they traced their genealogy back to Adam and Eve - so not really presented as a parable - don't you think?

Dan From Smithville said:

If my view gives you trouble, you may want to explore the basis of your own faith. Sounds like you have some issues to iron out.

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What I've been saying is that you have no view. You haven't thought it out at all - and that gives you trouble.

If you are a Christian - you should believe in a literal Fall and a literal Redemption.

Jose Fly said:

To reiterate, it so much wasn't the subject matter that made me lose interest, it was mostly the time between posts.

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I find that to be a lame excuse in all honesty.

People have lives. They don't live here. They come and go.

But we are all free to pursue the discussion we actually want to have - so what more can I say?

Jose Fly said:

I'm very sorry about that. Please accept my apologies.

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I appreciate that. I - of course - accept them.

I also apologize if anything I said in my explanations offended you.

It was never my intention.

Jose Fly said:

Sounds like this god is a petulant child.

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What makes you say that?

You know what - your comment only makes sense if you believe that God made the Law.

I do not believe He did.

Jose Fly said:

Well that would be weird, since my wife, most of my family, and many of my friends are Christians. I'm sure they'd all be very surprised to hear that I'm angry at them.

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We tend to be angry with the people we are closest to. That love/hate line we all tread.

Jose Fly said:

Again, this god seems rather childish.

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I don't see it - not when I take into account the Law and how we can avoid condemnation.

Fallen Prophet said:

I find that to be a lame excuse in all honesty.

People have lives. They don't live here. They come and go.

But we are all free to pursue the discussion we actually want to have - so what more can I say?

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I understand that you may not have the time to keep the discussion going every day. And by the same token, I also have a busy life, which means when someone replies only about once per week, I may not remember where the conversation was when we last left off. So I have to go back and read through old posts to refresh.

I was willing to do that a couple of times, but regularly? Nah. And that it was a discussion that I'd had countless times before didn't help either.

I appreciate that. I - of course - accept them.

I also apologize if anything I said in my explanations offended you.

It was never my intention.

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Thanks.

What makes you say that?

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This God being like "I know you're genuinely desperate and hurting, but I'm not going to do anything until you approach me in exactly the right way."

IMO, that's hardly different than a petulant child sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "La, la, la...I can't hear you" when things are going their way.

We tend to be angry with the people we are closest to. That love/hate line we all tread.

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Hilarious. The presumptuousness of some folks never ceases to amaze me.

Jose Fly said:

I understand that you may not have the time to keep the discussion going every day. And by the same token, I also have a busy life, which means when someone replies only about once per week, I may not remember where the conversation was when we last left off. So I have to go back and read through old posts to refresh.

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That wouldn't bother me so much if I was really interested in the topic of discussion.

Jose Fly said:

And that it was a discussion that I'd had countless times before didn't help either.

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You and me both - but I genuinely like having this discussion over and over.

It took a lot of effort and time to get to where I am and I like sharing my journey.

Jose Fly said:

This God being like "I know you're genuinely desperate and hurting, but I'm not going to do anything until you approach me in exactly the right way."

IMO, that's hardly different than a petulant child sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "La, la, la...I can't hear you" when things are going their way.

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Again - this is coming from the perspective that He creates all the rules.

I believe that God made many promises to us before we came here - one being not forcing anything on us for example - and He is just keeping HIs promises.

I mean - you claimed to be happy with your life so far - so you probably wouldn't want God showing up and telling you to change - would you?

Jose Fly said:

Hilarious. The presumptuousness of some folks never ceases to amaze me.

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I wasn't saying that you were angry with your family - just that it would not be surprising if you were.

You being so adamant about being an atheist doesn't create any friction with your wife?

gnostic said:

I am completely baffled as to what you are trying to say.

All I know is that, you are anti-science.

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the destroyer human men mentality real.

Every problem came from the practice science. I am not anti anything I am telling a human truth.

Humans. Conscious. Proven aware in acute conditions just as a thinker.

Science says it is our intelligence yet science was theoried to destroy what created creation owned.

Not intelligent.

Conscience natural first.

Humans argued against science about God life on earth.

Theist satanism said life began in space as blasting. Inferring self human presence included in that thought moment.

Humans in science nature said humans owned life as one whole genetic form after monkeys.

The reasoning why humans argue.

Nature science observation on one earth correct. God statements.

Genesis DNA. DNA only owned by a living self present human.

Knew ark attack happened. Knew ark stopped attack of life when it landed on Ararat. Flood stopped. Counted forty days effect.

How it is interpreted fake.

Gases burning above us over mountains produces effect flooding to cool gases.

We survived life when it was irradiated. Only a small healthy human DNA life was left the rest of life DNA gone mutated.

Status history human DNA was all the same human parent in earths human population. Why it mutated changed.

The teaching.

Life health sacrificed. The first sacrifice caused by nuclear pyramid sciences. Moses teaching.

Why the Jews did not accept Jesus theme as it was a second attack. Already knew what pyramid science had caused. Repracticed it anyway.

First sacrifice was the ark.

When it landed radiation UFO attacks on mountain face stopped and then life was saved.

How it was once taught.

Satanism wanted the ark to own the creation of life. As a UFO beginning. As if humans began first as cloud images. When clouds disappear and are a reactive cause owned as a beginning itself.

Clouds began as smoking hot gases. In the beginning a hot dense cloud began forming in the cooling. To cool into gods heavens.

2x2 is squaring status scientific conversion.

God was one mass only.
Mother of God space M + A S S held mass as mass travelled moved through space womb. Theme mother of God space.

Immaculate supported life equal balanced with sacrifice of immaculate burning in the vacuum void above us in heavens. Gods not humans terms in the sciences. Reason light existed.

The God teaching advice.

Was all above us raised from off the earth as origin reason why a heaven existed.

A teaching.

Image of animals attacked two parent life bodies and image of humans boarded the ark as water evaporation took our microbiome life and carbon burnt it. Water taken. Our life in water as water had also formed in space womb.

Humans witnessed how animal and human image was taken from off the ground as the flood activated heavens cause and put into the mountain peaks above us. Evaporation effect water split by two in mass.

Clouds then owned life image as clouds beginning hot never owned image was just a smoking rolling effect.

Water as split from water mass as a mass effect evaporated.
Lifted off face of earth. UFO seen over water sucking up water as a cooling cause.

Meanwhile life on ground died from radiation flood. RA effect. Whilst flooding by raining through the gases was trying to save human life as healthy DNA.

God spirit gas.
Our spirit water.
God changed gas state took our life water. How and why God conditions attacked life.

Eye of RA the same model shape ark stone melt on Ararat impression. Radiation effect.

Science human self destructive thoughts studies acts of evil to copy. Why they built nuclear destruction as they are our destroyer.

Any status that defines in thought can I use it one of the scientists human agreed thought. Weapons or reactions.

The teaching how human consciousness to think became our life destroyer.

The Jesus radiation fallout still active in heavens had not yet stopped fallout. Humans dna sacrificed as any ailment suffered. Forecast 2012 end never occurred. Science increased the radiation fallout in new same radiation thesis.

Humans said God was never the sun metals.

Science said the sun was God.

Why we are so sick.

Human elite science control warning their psyche agreed to have life removed off earth. As humans should be destroyed by the alien thesis with their agreement I believe I am an alien first.

Fallen Prophet said:

Such as?

I don't see two stories.

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That doesn't mean they are not two stories merged into one. I saw that when I was young and learned more about it with formal study as an adult.

Fallen Prophet said:

But you just said there were two. So is it one version or two?

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Do you actually comprehend what you respond to? I said that there were probably a number of oral traditions for this creation story and TWO were fused into the first two chapters of Genesis. You see the same thing in parts of the story of Noah and the flood.

Fallen Prophet said:

I understand - but you are referring to the Creation chapters in your attempt to argue against the validity of the Fall recorded in Genesis.

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I am not argue against the validity of the Fall. Can try and keep this honest or are you really that obtuse?

Fallen Prophet said:

They aren't the same topic - even if they were recorded one right after the other.

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Chapters 1 and 2 are two different stories of creation. You can flip flop like a fish on the beach, but you are not going to hit water by claiming they are not.

Fallen Prophet said:

I never said anything was valid or not.

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You did. You were yammering about how you know that Genesis is a literal retelling of actual events and but my reading things as allegory is not valid.

Fallen Prophet said:

What I said was if there was no literal Fall there is no literal Redemption.

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I would agree, but I have never said that there wasn't. My only claim is that Genesis should be viewed as allegory. Have you ever heard of a straw man argument. You seem to have a natural talent for them.

Fallen Prophet said:

If you can argue that Adam and Eve were not real then what is stopping you from arguing that the Lord Jesus Christ wasn't real?

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The fact that He is real.

Fallen Prophet said:

The parables were presented as such. He often said He was about to relate a parable.

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That doesn't support your claim that viewing things as allegory makes them mere.

Fallen Prophet said:

The Israelites claimed that they traced their genealogy back to Adam and Eve - so not really presented as a parable - don't you think?

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I didn't claim it was presented as a parable. I reference parables to rebut your claim about allegory diminishing the value.

Fallen Prophet said:

What I've been saying is that you have no view. You haven't thought it out at all - and that gives you trouble.

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I have a view. I have not trouble. Except with those that claim knowledge they cannot share and likely don't possess.

Fallen Prophet said:

If you are a Christian - you should believe in a literal Fall and a literal Redemption.

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I never said I didn't. You are making a straw man argument again. If you are a Christian, you would try to keep your comments on the up and up.

Fallen Prophet said:

In Post #471 you said, "I consider it an allegory, based on the evidence."

Which is what led me to ask you about this supposed evidence.

And now you are saying that there is no evidence?

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I see. No I am not saying there is no evidence. But you took so long in answering and I did not go back to look at my original post.

The dual story line and the lack of biological evidence that human populations started with two people is some of the evidence.

Fallen Prophet said:

Basically - you have not given any reason to believe that the story of Adam and Eve is simply allegorical.

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Personally, I do not care how you view it. I am not trying to get you to view it that way. I view it as an allegory for the reasons I have stated. I doubt that you would accept what you saw with your own eyes if we had a time machine and could go back and see it for ourselves.

Fallen Prophet said:

The Genesis account does not present it as an allegory and the story of a literal Fall explains the need for a literal Redemption.

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Once again, you are turning what I said into a straw man that I did not assert.

Fallen Prophet said:

No one said that you had to believe that Adam and Eve were real people - but them being real makes a lot more sense than them being fictional.

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You cannot establish that it was real. Functionally, it is an allegory for you too. You just choose to believe it is real. For me, that does not matter.

Fallen Prophet said:

Unless - of course - you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is fictional as well - in that case your argument would make sense.

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If I was arguing that man did not fall that might be true, but I have not made that argument though you have tried, really, really, really, really, really, really hard to get that straw man out there.

Fallen Prophet said:

But if you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was a real person - the literal Son of God - then all you have offered is inconcsistency.

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No. Again. You are the one that keeps falsely claiming that I am arguing against the fall. Viewing Genesis as allegory does not invalidate the points of the story. How is it that you do not get that? Or is it necessary to misrepresent me so that you do not have to agree with me by attacking the misrepresentation?

Fallen Prophet said:

Such as?

I don't see two stories.

But you just said there were two. So is it one version or two?

I understand - but you are referring to the Creation chapters in your attempt to argue against the validity of the Fall recorded in Genesis.

They aren't the same topic - even if they were recorded one right after the other.

I never said anything was valid or not.

What I said was if there was no literal Fall there is no literal Redemption.

If you can argue that Adam and Eve were not real then what is stopping you from arguing that the Lord Jesus Christ wasn't real?

The parables were presented as such. He often said He was about to relate a parable.

The Israelites claimed that they traced their genealogy back to Adam and Eve - so not really presented as a parable - don't you think?

What I've been saying is that you have no view. You haven't thought it out at all - and that gives you trouble.

If you are a Christian - you should believe in a literal Fall and a literal Redemption.

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There you go. You believe it has to be real as described. Apparently, your Christianity would fall apart if it turned out to be an allegory for you. Neither of us can demonstrate that it was an actual event as described. Functionally, that makes it allegorical even for you.

I do not see that it has to be seen as described. The message is the same. The value is the same.

I have not made many of the claims you have assigned to me and are arguing against.

We differ on how to view the creation story and the fall of man. That hardly means that one of the other of us is not Christian. I cannot say you are not for believing. A literal view is not a requirement to be Christian.

Witnessed events by humans.
Stories told by humans to humans.

A human is last form in creation by status applied thesis.

If you are last "in" creation you therefore cannot change anything.

First said science was God entering into its mass satanic fall. Bursting burning.

God is mass. Humans are not mass.

Mass of humans is inferred by group sex. As a group model individuals have sex.

A satanist therefore copies has group sex by theory. Proving possessed by your own science thesis. Word inference first ignores truthful natural human status

Why we were warned about science theism as it's owned human self deception.

Science status first form no longer even exists history in space.

What it once was is converted.

No number one position.

Science on earth a stone planet said one about stone was mass.

Then used numbers to factor how to convert one as mass. Numbers apply addition to formulate the state to create minus one. Leaving no mass.

God owns volcanic mass and the science minus one first is not equal to sub volcanic mass. It gains nuclear sludge.

Why a machine controlled order system was never God.

Lied.

There is no under state

Destroyed to equals a hotter state is theorising. As a sub theory.

God as it's seal stone with space zero is only stone.

To want God to be a sub state is to remove stone back to gods earth hell volcanic form not zero.

To claim my non nuclear power plant theory is closer to God than a nuclear theist. Two scientists arguing about numbers formulas theories just for science advice.

+Using the cross first addition is how science tried to claim it was holy first. God never owned any additions.

Fallen Prophet said:

You and me both - but I genuinely like having this discussion over and over.

It took a lot of effort and time to get to where I am and I like sharing my journey.

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That's not surprising. People are oftentimes eager to share their beliefs. Those of us who don't believe....not so much.

I believe that God made many promises to us before we came here - one being not forcing anything on us for example - and He is just keeping HIs promises.

I mean - you claimed to be happy with your life so far - so you probably wouldn't want God showing up and telling you to change - would you?

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I think you need to re-read what I wrote, and pay particular attention to the "desperate and hurting" part.

I wasn't saying that you were angry with your family - just that it would not be surprising if you were.

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LOL....and by the same token, I wasn't saying you were crazy, I was just saying I wouldn't be surprised if you were.

Do you buy that?

You being so adamant about being an atheist doesn't create any friction with your wife?

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First, I'm not an atheist. Second, I'm not adamant about not being a Christian. Third, my wife is very understanding about how I am simply not a religious person. As she puts it, "He doesn't have a religious bone in his body".

Father said Stephen hawkings was able to detail man's mind theory science only to a point of man's owned realisation.

As that man information killed sacrificed him. It's practice. Practice not the first thinking is first only in a holy life of the human healthy.

Cooling after irradiation of man life man lived on. Brothers healthy scientist mind advice about man life notified is false self advice as it was not his man self that got sacrificed.

By cooling after stones heated irradiation nearly destroyed his life just as a human. Stephen Hawking warning.

The destroyer. An everyday man Bible warned. Healthy life after brothers victimisation warning.

Studies sun metal cooled from a self consuming sun. Notice self is used in all advice. As if he is causing it controlling it. False advice.

First law big bang light advice from that sun hot mass. Human conscious ideals via the light only. Sun itself was colder til it blasted. First law satanist says is hot. From a cold mass was the sun. Not creation itself.

We are conscious. Conscience says no human will ever know it all now reasons that metal came out of a body unknowable. First law in science the sun. A consuming first form.

Mr I will know it all eventually realises his owned liar. Knows he is lying.

Father said the humans living who ended all life on earth a long time ago are living today motivated by conscious memory of that outcome.

My life memories said I had left life before the end occurred.

How a human in a natural chaotic atmospheric nuclear UFO decimation lived died before the reaction ended. But lived consciously owns the memory.

How says a human could a human realise such destructive information. In and about nuclear conversion. Answer....As they were living when it attacked life the reason.

Never knew the end reactive coldest advice as universe plummeted into the cold deep state empty space.

The pressure equals answer to why stone holding its God stone form was historic. Yet we were up higher in space. Radiation heat versus cold pressure allowed God stone to survive. The only reason. Radiation surrounding earth's body.

Not any machine thesis.

Stone metal gases.
Sun metal as metal is cold held in deeper pressure. Extreme pressure.

Pressure God stone never owned.

Man's owned science warning. Science as science confessed.

First law lied about the satanic con. Science law is for science intent only. The human con. Was the sun only.

First law in space history was extreme pressure change to own reactive big bang.

Big bang theist snidely in mind claims non of you know me. I am the most intelligent in life compared to the rest of you. Sun theists.

I theory cold not self consuming being caused after pressure change. Mr know it all himself.

God is not sun metal God pressure changes equals the space gained. Sink holes. Small holes. Lucky nuclear dust pressures of God only causes small holes of space gain. Total emptiness in fact. Pressure changed of stone.

Earth could drop into pressure change and blow apart as a I want equals cold first observed sun metal cold theory about large mass.

Reasoning it came from a very large mass. Science only theories about mass changes.

Reason. I don't want to keep cold sun metal I want it heated pressure changed to resource as a radiation mass channel. Through earths atmosphere.

Memory the end of life. Science thesis beginning to actual end.

Why Jesus teaching said I owned both reasonings. Sacrificed by beginning and sacrificed by the end. Just science cause.

Man said yet I lived on. He is not theorising however for life's survival. He just wants the reaction which is neither a beginning nor an end.

Reason natural ended life.

His theory about all destroyed histories.

Science studies life self combustion on God earth said historic advice in science memory was the end of life on earth reason when the planet stopped consuming into sink holes into deeper pressurized space.

A fall he was not living to witness as the chaos mass event. Being his exact theory after big bang itself. As equals I want answer is reactive status afterwards.

Calculated channel first as first answer as a mass is the hole advice meaning no more earth as God.

Theist displaced presence first as real memory as first presence is not existing is the first answer. Space deep state empty pit became the first after reactive pressure consuming.

He says chaos reaction real first answer cold state deep empty put owning no form. Even confessed that he theoried for nothing at all.

Why science said no reaction ever owned nothing emptiness. Knew he was lying and tried to reason with his theme in science was chaos.

Mind says deep state is first coldest and the sub presence in mind reality coldest empty space as equals first law pressure changed versus science first law con the sun.

In space the highest first body no longer exists.

Is the human claim I will know it all as the first event. Being an equals answer first before any human action was taken.

Why confession was a science status known lying.

A human confession in satanic science space.

Chaos in atmosphere was his first science thesis yet he never theoried chaotic destructive reactions in natural. As his science machine want.

Was the only advice of his research.

Not realised or even considered as a review I observe you man theist. As a conscious spiritual healer.

His advice direct only to want one reaction.

Pressure of water flood on earth face was against the stone.
Mountain peak above the flood pressure.
UFO reaction converting pyramid mass the peak.

Why flat top mountains occurred.

Ignored all other atmospheric and underground events. The chaos term.

Learnt in his life's end that chaos was the event how I learnt science yet I ignored chaos.

Learnt about it all when he died in self combustion. And when he killed all life on earth in science.

It is why he pressure plated the pyramid with casement.
It is why he used water cooling with the pyramid science.

He lied about life being safe.

In my gained female vision I heard his man science life recorded threat as I saw grey flakes coming of pyramid walls that self combusted our family as his victims.

The voice said to me dont tell your family!

How come satanic science brother?

Human memories about the human satanic earth God science.

Our natural life gained imaged recorded warnings. Prophetic.