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Why would a god select only the few?

Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
CBM said:
You seem unnecessarily antagonistic, but I will respond nevertheless.
1. It does not say they rejected G-d. It says they rejected the Torah. As I said - G-d is equally available to any seeker.

2. Your question only makes sense from the perspective of someone who believes in the Bible. And yes, the Bible states there is one G-d.
If you’d like to know why I believe the Bible is divine, that would be going off on a tangent and is not relevant to this thread.
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No not antagonistic just speaking what is true only.
ok
1. The Torah was available to the aborigine's of Australia, the bushmen of the Kalahari, the Native Americans in North and South America, The Celtic people of Europe, the Chinese, the Japanese and so on? and there is evidence for this?

2. I do not doubt anyone's belief that their sacred myths and writings are divine no matter what religion it is. It was still written by people influenced by their culture and needs and not influenced by any other gods or goddesses that are equally as important as the Abrahamic god. Those that follow the Abrahamic god will of course see that god as their one true god. That is fine just not appropriate to others that see and equally important god or goddess as their true deities.
 
CBM

CBM

Member
1. You asked how it’s possible to believe that the Torah was offered to only one nation. I responded that that’s not the belief.

2. I don’t follow?
 
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
CBM said:
It would be easier to communicate with you if you weren’t sarcastic and full of negative insinuations. I appreciate honest, straightforward communication.

Nowhere have I said that Judaism has a monopoly on ethical behavior. Ethical behavior is accessible to anyone.

(Including being polite on online forums.)
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I am not trying to be sarcastic and negative. I am very positive about many things including those gods and goddesses that are important to me. I have no problem with you God for you but when any one religion says they have the one "true" god
CBM said:
It would be easier to communicate with you if you weren’t sarcastic and full of negative insinuations. I appreciate honest, straightforward communication.

Nowhere have I said that Judaism has a monopoly on ethical behavior. Ethical behavior is accessible to anyone.

(Including being polite on online forums.)
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I am not trying to be sarcastic and negative. I am very positive about many things including those gods and goddesses that are important to me. I have no problem with you God for you but when any one religion says they have the one "true" god in a world of many gods and goddesses I have a problem. Basically it says yours are all false and I mine is the only choice.
 
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
CBM said:
1. It does not say they rejected G-d. It says they rejected the Torah. As I said - G-d is equally available to any seeker.
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You quoted the rejected the Torah, I asked if it was presented to everyone in the world. You say god is available to any seeker but the question was did your god present to everyone.
 
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
CBM said:
2. Your question only makes sense from the perspective of someone who believes in the Bible. And yes, the Bible states there is one G-d.
If you’d like to know why I believe the Bible is divine, that would be going off on a tangent and is not relevant to this thread.
Click to expand...

My point was that followers of other religion have their myths and writings that as divine to them as you claim your book is to you. All that shows is there are many gods and goddesses with different but equal paths. I do not doubt your belief.
 
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
CBM said:
And the whole point of monotheism is that there is one G-d, so I don’t understand what you mean by different gods and goddesses.
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Monotheism means just one god and for you that is the god of Abraham I would think. But your monotheism is just one path in a world of many paths with different gods and goddess available. I am happy for you and how you relate to your god that is the one true god for you. To then say there are no other gods or goddesses that have equally true is just not correct unless you have taken the time to know them and compare but even then it is just your subjective opinion.
 
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
CBM said:
Our mission is simply different than the rest of the nations, just as we believe women’s general mission differs from men’s.
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Can you clarify what you mean by the general mission of women is different from the mission of men? And what makes your mission different from the rest of the nations. A more detailed explanation would be appreciated.
 
The_Fisher_King

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Thank you for your reply.
In the Bible I read it's 'death' that stamps the total full price tag that sin pays as Paid in Full according to Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7.
Nowhere do I read (includes Adam) that it is ' death plus post-mortem punishment '. No double jeopardy in death.
So, to me it is what a person does ' after ' they are resurrected to be granted Paradise Earth or Hell/Destruction.
The wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' according to Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
I think we can agree with SURAH XXI:105 about it is the righteous inheriting the land.
The land or ' garden ' SURRAH XXXIX:73-74.
Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
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I believe that these verses of the Qur'an refer to a physical Paradise, yes, but not one of this Earth. And I do believe in a physical Hell after death.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The_Fisher_King said:
I believe that these verses of the Qur'an refer to a physical Paradise, yes, but not one of this Earth. And I do believe in a physical Hell after death.
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Yes, also in the Bible the Bible's hell is physical, the temporary physical stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Dead physical Adam went to dust. Adam ' returned ' to the dust according to Genesis 3:19.
I believe a person can Not return to a place he never was before. Physical Adam went back to the material Earth.
Thus, Adam went from material non-life, to physical life, and returned back to non-life.
The King James Bible translated the word Gehenna into English as: hell fire. That wrongly put fire in hell.
(Jesus and the OT both teach, Not fire, but sleep in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5)
The Bible's hell has No fire for the sleeping dead, but a non-biblical hell-fire teaching does have flames.
As the ancient people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their religious ideas and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
This is why we see so many similar or overlapping religious ideas spread throughout the Earth including a common teaching about a permanent burning hell of fire.
Even 'Christendom' (so-called Christian but mostly in name only) traces its roots back to ancient Babylonian ideas.
I'm thankful that the Bible teaches a permanent end to hell - Revelation 20:13-14
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up' (resurrected out of death and hell) then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell and death right here on planet Earth -1 Corinthians 15:24-26
I believe this is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the blessing benefits promised to father Abraham at Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
That ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed and to be right here on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
 
The_Fisher_King

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Yes, also in the Bible the Bible's hell is physical, the temporary physical stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Dead physical Adam went to dust. Adam ' returned ' to the dust according to Genesis 3:19.
I believe a person can Not return to a place he never was before. Physical Adam went back to the material Earth.
Thus, Adam went from material non-life, to physical life, and returned back to non-life.
The King James Bible translated the word Gehenna into English as: hell fire. That wrongly put fire in hell.
(Jesus and the OT both teach, Not fire, but sleep in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5)
The Bible's hell has No fire for the sleeping dead, but a non-biblical hell-fire teaching does have flames.
As the ancient people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their religious ideas and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
This is why we see so many similar or overlapping religious ideas spread throughout the Earth including a common teaching about a permanent burning hell of fire.
Even 'Christendom' (so-called Christian but mostly in name only) traces its roots back to ancient Babylonian ideas.
I'm thankful that the Bible teaches a permanent end to hell - Revelation 20:13-14
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up' (resurrected out of death and hell) then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell and death right here on planet Earth -1 Corinthians 15:24-26
I believe this is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the blessing benefits promised to father Abraham at Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
That ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed and to be right here on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
Click to expand...

Since I believe in the Hellfire, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!
 
CBM

CBM

Member
Wild Fox said:
You quoted the rejected the Torah, I asked if it was presented to everyone in the world. You say god is available to any seeker but the question was did your god present to everyone.
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That is what the midrash says.
 
CBM

CBM

Member
Wild Fox said:
Can you clarify what you mean by the general mission of women is different from the mission of men? And what makes your mission different from the rest of the nations. A more detailed explanation would be appreciated.
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I don’t know enough to answer these questions properly, but I can try from my limited knowledge base (and I will see if I can get some additional information - but I can’t promise I’ll get to it :)).

Male energy - doing, wisdom (chochma), influencer (mashpia) giving (Chesed), potential

Female energy - being, intuition (binah), strength (gevurah) receiving (mekabel), actualization

I will try to add more soon - I do understand I just defined male and female energies and perhaps roles and wasn’t explicit about missions. The energies and roles correspond to their respective missions but I’d need to do a bit more research on that first.

As far as the mission of the Jewish nation and other nations as well, I’d also want to check some sources before I respond in depth if that’s ok.

What I can say is that I’ve been taught that although any human being can bring G-D’s light into the world, Jews were specifically charged with the task of spreading G-D’s light through fulfilling the commandments in the Torah and studying the Torah.

Other nations have their own way and potential with which they can bring G-d’s light into the world.
 
CBM

CBM

Member
Wild Fox said:
Monotheism means just one god and for you that is the god of Abraham I would think. But your monotheism is just one path in a world of many paths with different gods and goddess available. I am happy for you and how you relate to your god that is the one true god for you. To then say there are no other gods or goddesses that have equally true is just not correct unless you have taken the time to know them and compare but even then it is just your subjective opinion.
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Monotheism, by definition, means one Source, one G-d.

So, no, I don’t have to study various gods to know I’m not a polytheist.

Just as the sun has energy, there are various energies in the world. But these energies are just vessels through which G-d interacts with the world and they are not the source nor are they worthy of worship in any way whatsoever.
To worship them would be idolatry according to monotheism.
 
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
CBM said:
I don’t know enough to answer these questions properly, but I can try from my limited knowledge base (and I will see if I can get some additional information - but I can’t promise I’ll get to it :)).

Male energy - doing, wisdom (chochma), influencer (mashpia) giving (Chesed), potential

Female energy - being, intuition (binah), strength (gevurah) receiving (mekabel), actualization

I will try to add more soon - I do understand I just defined male and female energies and perhaps roles and wasn’t explicit about missions. The energies and roles correspond to their respective missions but I’d need to do a bit more research on that first.

As far as the mission of the Jewish nation and other nations as well, I’d also want to check some sources before I respond in depth if that’s ok.

What I can say is that I’ve been taught that although any human being can bring G-D’s light into the world, Jews were specifically charged with the task of spreading G-D’s light through fulfilling the commandments in the Torah and studying the Torah.

Other nations have their own way and potential with which they can bring G-d’s light into the world.
Click to expand...

I look forward to hearing more from you. One of the things I enjoy about the forum is I do not have to agree nor other agree with me but by challenging each other we learn more about other and more about ourselves. Do not misunderstand disagreements with lack of respect. I know I have been wrong about things and changed the way I see things but other times I have also gained knowledge with challenges.
 
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
CBM said:
Monotheism, by definition, means one Source, one G-d.

So, no, I don’t have to study various gods to know I’m not a polytheist.

Just as the sun has energy, there are various energies in the world. But these energies are just vessels through which G-d interacts with the world and they are not the source nor are they worthy of worship in any way whatsoever.
To worship them would be idolatry according to monotheism.
Click to expand...

The problem is that monotheism in a polytheistic world can only mean that those following one god are monotheistic and those following many gods are polytheistic. To claim that another's gods or goddesses are like less than or not existence is to be without true knowledge. Yes for you in your religion worshiping the goddess I follow might be considered idolatry for you but it is sacred to me. To dismiss the goddess is an offence as an idol is an offence to me yet I understand that there are others who do not follow her. In my religion a single god is completely out of balance and needs to reconnect with the goddess to restore the balance.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
CBM said:
Monotheism, by definition, means one Source, one G-d.

So, no, I don’t have to study various gods to know I’m not a polytheist.

Just as the sun has energy, there are various energies in the world. But these energies are just vessels through which G-d interacts with the world and they are not the source nor are they worthy of worship in any way whatsoever.
To worship them would be idolatry according to monotheism.
Click to expand...
I would have to make a point about your last sentence here. I think it would definitely be schituf according to Abrahamic monotheism. Other forms of monotheism do allow for God having aspects/avatars/whathaveyou, which occurs in my faith and a lot of Dharmic faiths, while remaining monotheistic.

Again though, one's definition of 'monotheistic' would come into play here and again I would agree that it wouldn't be monotheism in the Abrahamic sense. On the other hand, though, there have been those Kabbalists who argued that the Sefirot are somehow divine in and of themselves, which naturally caused a storm and no-one really believes this anymore - but to many the idea of the Sefirot at all is bordering on something such as the Christians have with the Trinity.

Just wanted to throw that out there :D
 
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Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
I would have to make a point about your last sentence here. I think it would definitely be schituf according to Abrahamic monotheism. Other forms of monotheism do allow for God having aspects/avatars/whathaveyou, which occurs in my faith and a lot of Dharmic faiths, while remaining monotheistic.

Again though, one's definition of 'monotheistic' would come into play here and again I would agree that it wouldn't be monotheism in the Abrahamic sense. On the other hand, though, there have been those Kabbalists who argued that the Sefirot are somehow divine in and of themselves, which naturally caused a storm and no-one really believes this anymore - but to many the idea of the Sefirot at all is bordering on something such as the Christians have with the Trinity.

Just wanted to throw that out there :D
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To me the problems with the word monotheistic is the fact it can have two meanings to people. One can be monotheistic choosing one of many which I have no problem with or it can mean monotheistic meaning all other deities are false and do not exist. It is this latter attitude which creates the intolerant attitude that if you do not agree with me you are simply wrong while the former is tolerant saying this is just the way I feel connected hope you feel the same way with your belief.

The absolute monotheistic belief also created the intolerance that eliminated so many other religions in Europe. It was not you should believe, it was you must believe or die.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Wild Fox said:
To me the problems with the word monotheistic is the fact it can have two meanings to people. One can be monotheistic choosing one of many which I have no problem with or it can mean monotheistic meaning all other deities are false and do not exist. It is this latter attitude which creates the intolerant attitude that if you do not agree with me you are simply wrong while the former is tolerant saying this is just the way I feel connected hope you feel the same way with your belief.

The absolute monotheistic belief also created the intolerance that eliminated so many other religions in Europe. It was not you should believe, it was you must believe or die.
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The first definition you write would be called henotheism or monolatry.
 
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