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Were the four canonical gospels in the New Testament revealed?

firedragon

Veteran Member
Probably not, in the sense that Moslems consider the Quran to have been revealed to Mohammad. Nor in the sense that Revelation was revealed to it's writer by God through His angel. Neither Matthew, Mark, Luke nor John make such a claim, nor do they infer it (though the opening verses of John's Gospel do perhaps lend themselves to such an interpretation).

However, I do believe that the four Gospels represent a sincere attempt by their writers, to pass on the word of God as it was revealed to Jesus of Nazareth, and shared by him with his followers. I am willing to believe that the writers were divinely inspired; hat an unseen hand guided the hands which held the pen, if you like. I don't believe they were God's secretaries, taking down his dictation word for word.

I respect your theology. Based on what evidence or proof do you make this assertion?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Probably not, in the sense that Moslems consider the Quran to have been revealed to Mohammad. Nor in the sense that Revelation was revealed to it's writer by God through His angel. Neither Matthew, Mark, Luke nor John make such a claim, nor do they infer it (though the opening verses of John's Gospel do perhaps lend themselves to such an interpretation).

However, I do believe that the four Gospels represent a sincere attempt by their writers, to pass on the word of God as it was revealed to Jesus of Nazareth, and shared by him with his followers. I am willing to believe that the writers were divinely inspired; hat an unseen hand guided the hands which held the pen, if you like. I don't believe they were God's secretaries, taking down his dictation word for word.

They were revealed by God to Jesus to disciples AFTER the feign death. Something people don't grasp and they paraphrased his life and works. They are not same style as Quran nor Torah, but still from God. My view but I respect yours.

I don't believe inspired works by fallible people whether holy spirit influences them or not, to talk the way the gospels talk, and the way the holy spirit is spoken about and confirmed in Quran ,speaks volumes of truth.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Brother. All of that is not relevant. Please refer to the OP.

It is relevant, because Quran doesn't say it's the only proofs and signs from God and teaches believers to see and look for signs from him all over the earth and believe in the Prophets sent all over.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We have for example monotheist texts from God in hands of neopagans today. You trust the neopagans to translate and interpret, sure, they are problematic even lead to worship of others then God. But at the end, if you sincerely study them without taking the misguided leaders as authorities to them, you fill find all over the earth, still, till this day, there are books from God and they all emphasize the main message to be same, but have different flavor and way of approach.

Some we heard about, some we haven't.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I respect your theology. Based on what evidence or proof do you make this assertion?


The best evidence I can offer regarding the veracity of the Gospels, is to refer you to Matthew 7, 16-20. If the Gospels have brought forth good fruit, then they are of God. For a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
They were revealed by God to Jesus to disciples AFTER the feign death. Something people don't grasp and they paraphrased his life and works. They are not same style as Quran nor Torah, but still from God. My view but I respect yours.

I don't believe inspired works by fallible people whether holy spirit influences them or not, to talk the way the gospels talk, and the way the holy spirit is spoken about and confirmed in Quran ,speaks volumes of truth.


Ah. I believe that divine inspiration is not confined to a few religious texts, and can be found throughout art, literature, and in the lives of ordinary people who have received the gift of grace.

I take your point about the difference between the Gospels and the Quran. I don't believe the Gospels are infallible or irrefutable. But I do believe they speak volumes of truth.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
When it comes to Nubuwa, we believe God can leave legacy from Anbiya, that is not only words from God but themselves proofs in themselves to be from God and they prove the right path and religion. Their subtle way of guiding and eloquence are miracles in themselves. Quran is best as a miracle in Arabic but can still be seen miraculous when translated. It's same with other divine texts.

Quran is the last Nubuwa, but it's not the first and only. So make of that what you will, like I said, proof is in the pudding approach.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
In this topic which sprung up from another thread, I would like to see the evidence to why you would think the four canonical gospels are revealed by God.

Clearly not, but they convey spiritual truths revealed by God through Jesus.

One can not prove the Words of Jesus contained in the Gospels were Revealed by God anymore than the Words Spoken by Muhammad and recorded in the Quran can be proved to be Revealed by Allah.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Also, I believe Gaia theory was revealed by God and confirmed in Quran. I believe every people God breathed into and signs of his breathing and his revelations are still everywhere in every land, whether Japan or Native Americans. Don't trust what you hear about people or their religion, go study the texts and find the minority who understand it best, you will find unity through that in God's religions revealed through out.

The way the Quran talks about paht, Taoism is definitely revealed by God originally as well and they have divine texts. Whether they believe they have divine texts or not, two different things. Whether Christians believe Gospels are divinely inspired or revealed by God, two different things.

People belief about Quran is not the Quran.

Nubuwa is to believed in. It signs are all over the earth.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
anymore than the Words Spoken by Muhammad and recorded in the Quran can be proved to be Revealed by Allah.

If you know Quran and Arabic, you know it's God words. But if you know neither, it's hard.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
The best evidence I can offer regarding the veracity of the Gospels, is to refer you to Matthew 7, 16-20. If the Gospels have brought forth good fruit, then they are of God. For a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

Well, you must understand that it is not a valid proof for me. Lol. That might sound a little bad. I dont know really how else to say it.

What you have given is a faith statement. Because Matthew 7 says about good fruit, it is Gods word. First, one has to establish Matthew 7 is in order to hold on to it.

I hope you understand.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
If you know Quran and Arabic, you know it's God words. But if you know neither, it's hard.

You can not define the reality of anyone but yourself. For me I believe the Quran is the Word of God and the available English translations are sufficient to enable me to confirm that it is. My faith is not conditional on knowing Arabic.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Clearly not, but they convey spiritual truths revealed by God through Jesus.

One can not prove the Words of Jesus contained in the Gospels were Revealed by God anymore than the Words Spoken by Muhammad and recorded in the Quran can be proved to be Revealed by Allah.

But this thread is not about the Quran. If you wish, another thread could used to discuss the Quran.

Hope you understand.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you study Shinto for example, sky/reality and God and spirits in all things, which of their divine texts are not confirmed in Quran?

It's one thing not to know and is another thing to claim knowledge texts are not from God. I talk about other texts, because to me, Quran talks about Nubuwa in a way that teaches us God knows how to speak and prove himself through signs and prove things, if we listen properly.

Not only that, but he knows how to talk miraculously in a way we know it's from him. This is belief in Nubuwa.

Nubuwa is all around the earth, in every land. There was not a town and city before Mohammad (s) but a warner had passed by. Quran claims this yet we don't want to study and say Quran is the only book from God left on earth.

If you don't want study other then Quran, don't. But different then to say books not from God out of ignorance.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You can not define the reality of anyone but yourself. For me I believe the Quran is the Word of God and the available English translations are sufficient to enable me to confirm that it is. My faith is not conditional on knowing Arabic.

I said earlier the miracle nature of Nubuwa it stays with translations. Quran is best miracle form in Arabic, but in translations, it's still a miracle.

But some people know neither Quran nor Arabic, and talk non-sense about Quran, it's sad right?

So to me, I don't want to do same mistake with other divine texts like the Gospels. I didn't assume from God, but when studied, I know them to be.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
If you don't want study other then Quran, don't. But different then to say books not from God out of ignorance.

So have you studied the Gospels? It seems like that's what you are insinuating. Well, that's great.

Maybe you might have a good response to this.

If you analyse the Gospel of Matthew, which is the first book of the NT, the oldest manuscript is P1. Its not a full text of the gospel but has about 37 lines in it. The significance of this manuscript is that it contains the inscriptio.

Now as we know in modern times the Gospel of Matthew is called "Gospel of Matthew", but if you look at this manuscript which is the oldest so far found, it does not begin with that title. It begins with "Book of genealogy of Jesus Christ son of David son" which is in fact the title. Which means there is no authorship attributed to this writing. So it is much later that we find the Kata Matthew emerging. Thus, someone, some centuries later started calling it "Gospel", and not only that, began calling it "Matthew". Well hold on, Matthew the name emerged few centuries later according to manuscript evidence, and the word "Gospel" emerged even later.

So can you explain how this book would even be called a Gospel? How do you know it is supposed to be called a Gospel? We can leave the name Matthew aside for now.

Can you explain?
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Well, you must understand that it is not a valid proof for me. Lol. That might sound a little bad. I dont know really how else to say it.

What you have given is a faith statement. Because Matthew 7 says about good fruit, it is Gods word. First, one has to establish Matthew 7 is in order to hold on to it.

I hope you understand.


I do understand. And you are right, I can offer only a statement of faith. I cannot prove the truth of the Gospels to you, any more than I can prove the existence of God to an atheist.

As for the words of Matthew, or John, or of any other scripture including the Baghavad Gita or the Quran (of which, however, I do I admit my ignorance), I would argue that an individual can test the truth of these against the God Consciousness within us all.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So have you studied the Gospels? It seems like that's what you are insinuating. Well, that's great.

Maybe you might have a good response to this.

If you analyse the Gospel of Matthew, which is the first book of the NT, the oldest manuscript is P1. Its not a full text of the gospel but has about 37 lines in it. The significance of this manuscript is that it contains the inscriptio.

Now as we know in modern times the Gospel of Matthew is called "Gospel of Matthew", but if you look at this manuscript which is the oldest so far found, it does not begin with that title. It begins with "Book of genealogy of Jesus Christ son of David son" which is in fact the title. Which means there is no authorship attributed to this writing. So it is much later that we find the Kata Matthew emerging. Thus, someone, some centuries later started calling it "Gospel", and not only that, began calling it "Matthew". Well hold on, Matthew the name emerged few centuries later according to manuscript evidence, and the word "Gospel" emerged even later.

So can you explain how this book would even be called a Gospel? How do you know it is supposed to be called a Gospel? We can leave the name Matthew aside for now.

Can you explain?

The same way I been explaining to you, you know signs of God from God in form of words to be from God through belief in Nubuwa. Nubuwa Mohammad (s) is the last, but not the only.

Do you know what all Messengers were told when they threatened their cities with destruction? This is just stories of the past, nobody been destroyed, this even when destroyed cities are on open roads close by.

History is one of the arguments Pharaoh argued against Moses, he is saying where all these Messengers in history like you?

It's a classic thing despite all the records all over the earth, whether destroyed cities or texts about miracles in journals if people won't believe in scriptures, to call them stories of the past by historians of the time who most probably are of magog, and nothing has changed. The only thing this century has ample of evidence of destroyed cities and proofs of miracles in history and proofs of Nubuwa all over the earth, but act ignorant, and historians especially are the worse like ostriches who put their hands in the sand and talk non-sense.

You show me when history was ever reliable that I should trust it now.

The way to truth never been to approach it this way.

Nubuwa is independent of rules humans invent in studying authenticity of texts and history.

More over, Resalah is words of the person sent by God paraphrasing God's teachings, and even that is not subject to games of ilmej rijall and historical authenticity. It's light and compliments Nubuwa in a way that you don't need man made rules to know Rasool spoke those words. Sunnah is a miracle in itself - but Quran and Nubuwa way higher miracles as the latter is God's way speaking in proofs and ways that prove insights and miraculous form.

Leave all that history rubbish aside and just read the text itself and let God speak to you because Nubuwa needs listeners and attentive hearts.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
The same way I been explaining to you, you know signs of God from God in form of words to be from God through belief in Nubuwa. Nubuwa Mohammad (s) is the last, but not the only.

Do you know what all Messengers were told when they threatened their cities with destruction? This is just stories of the past, nobody been destroyed, this even when destroyed cities are on open roads close by.

History is one of the arguments Pharaoh argued against Moses, he is saying where all these Messengers in history like you?

It's a classic thing despite all the records all over the earth, whether destroyed cities or texts about miracles in journals if people won't believe in scriptures, to call them stories of the past by historians of the time who most probably are of magog, and nothing has changed. The only thing this century has ample of evidence of destroyed cities and proofs of miracles in history and proofs of Nubuwa all over the earth, but act ignorant, and historians especially are the worse like ostriches who put their hands in the sand and talk non-sense.

You show me when history was ever reliable that I should trust it now.

The way to truth never been to approach it this way.

Nubuwa is independent of rules humans invent in studying authenticity of texts and history.

More over, Resalah is words of the person sent by God paraphrasing God's teachings, and even that is not subject to games of ilmej rijall and historical authenticity. It's light and compliments Nubuwa in a way that you don't need man made rules to know Rasool spoke those words. Sunnah is a miracle in itself - but Quran and Nubuwa way higher miracles as the latter is God's way speaking in proofs and ways that prove insights and miraculous form.

Leave all that history rubbish aside and just read the text itself and let God speak to you because Nubuwa needs listeners and attentive hearts.

You didnt respond to my query brother.
 
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