The Law has been done away with?

Messianic Israelite · May 18, 2021

In my faith we pinpoint where this world has gone wrong to Chr-stianity claiming that the Law has been done away with. Robberies, murders, fornications etc. Isaiah 42:21 says: “It pleased Yahweh, for his righteousness’ sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable.” Satan has somehow got Chr-stianity to claim that the Law is obsolete. And I’m worried, because people are being hurt physically, emotionally and spiritually by those who have taken on this view. Faith is very dangerous without the Law of Yahweh to guide that faith. Yahshua the Messiah quoted back from the Law of Yahweh in Deuteronomy 6:16 when Satan told Yahshua to just have faith in Matthew 4:7. Without the Law of Yahweh, can we really call ourselves servants of Yahweh? Can we really call ourselves worshippers of Yahweh? Yahshua said right at the beginning of his ministry in Matthew 5: “17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

It's clear that Yahshua's example showed that it is possible through the power of the Holy Spirit to keep the commandments and the commandments of Yahweh are not a burden but a delight (1 John 5:3). Do you believe the Law of Yahweh has been done away with?

sun rise · May 18, 2021

God's fundamental law, the greatest commandments law of love upon which everything is based, will never be broken. It is at the core of the world's religions, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism as well as Christianity and is expressed in many different ways.

As long as the universe endures, the law of love will endure.

Altfish · May 18, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
In my faith we pinpoint where this world has gone wrong to Chr-stianity claiming that the Law has been done away with. Robberies, murders, fornications etc. Isaiah 42:21 says: “It pleased Yahweh, for his righteousness’ sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable.” Satan has somehow got Chr-stianity to claim that the Law is obsolete. And I’m worried, because people are being hurt physically, emotionally and spiritually by those who have taken on this view. Faith is very dangerous without the Law of Yahweh to guide that faith. Yahshua the Messiah quoted back from the Law of Yahweh in Deuteronomy 6:16 when Satan told Yahshua to just have faith in Matthew 4:7. Without the Law of Yahweh, can we really call ourselves servants of Yahweh? Can we really call ourselves worshippers of Yahweh? Yahshua said right at the beginning of his ministry in Matthew 5: “17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

It's clear that Yahshua's example showed that it is possible through the power of the Holy Spirit to keep the commandments and the commandments of Yahweh are not a burden but a delight (1 John 5:3). Do you believe the Law of Yahweh has been done away with?

Why is "Fornication" against the law?

exchemist · May 18, 2021

Altfish said:
Why is "Fornication" against the law?

I've always assumed it was because without reliable contraception it can lead to a lot of misery. The injunction against it has really only become out of date since the 1960s, arguably.

epronovost · May 18, 2021

Altfish said:
Why is "Fornication" against the law?

For an agrarian society with where wealth is not mobile and isn't related to hard currencies, inheritence laws are paramount to social stability and the transfer of wealth from one generation to the next. The fact that the State was very weak, often impotent and abscent of all effort of social welfare beside some basic infrastructures and policing duties made the stability of a family unit paramount to serve as a rampart against poverty. The development of a non-communal lifestyle also splintered society in family units instead of the wider tribal structure it used to have. In other word, fornication is an economical problem as there were no method of contraception. It also threatened the structure of power in that society which placed women and children at the service and command of the father/husband. In a highly rigid and authoritarian sociey, any threat to social order must be repressed.

9-10ths_Penguin · May 18, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Do you believe the Law of Yahweh has been done away with?

Seems to me that elsewhere in the New Testament, the author argues that the Old Law is still in effect, but it only ever applied to the living, and Christians have "died with Christ" through baptism and are therefore "dead" for the purposes of the law.

Of course, the Bible could very well have contradictory messages on this. I wouldn't expect every passage of the Bible to agree with every other passage.

metis · May 18, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Do you believe the Law of Yahweh has been done away with?

Are you referring to the entire Law? Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Altfish · May 18, 2021

epronovost said:
For an agrarian society with where wealth is not mobile and isn't related to hard currencies, inheritence laws are paramount to social stability and the transfer of wealth from one generation to the next. The fact that the State was very weak, often impotent and abscent of all effort of social welfare beside some basic infrastructures and policing duties made the stability of a family unit paramount to serve as a rampart against poverty. The development of a non-communal lifestyle also splintered society in family units instead of the wider tribal structure it used to have. In other word, fornication is an economical problem as there were no method of contraception. It also threatened the structure of power in that society which placed women and children at the service and command of the father/husband. In a highly rigid and authoritarian sociey, any threat to social order must be repressed.

It still is the case in many 'third world' countries, secular and irreligious countries appear to have overcome this problem.

stvdv · May 18, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Faith is very dangerous without the Law of Yahweh to guide that faith.

Of course this is not correct, bypassing so many other Faiths

Faith in Krishna is safe
Faith in Bahaullah is safe
Faith in Buddha is safe
Faith in yourself is safe
Faith in Sai Baba is safe
Faith in Allah is safe
Faith in Rama is safe
Faith in Zoroaster is safe
Faith in Humanism is safe
Faith in Shiva is safe
Faith in Love is safe
Faith in God is safe
Faith in Self is very safe
Faith in xxx is safe

Some talk about "safe sex"
Similar there is "safe faith"

1213 · May 19, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
...Do you believe the Law of Yahweh has been done away with?

No. And, if it would be, then there would be no sin. And if there is no sin, there would be no need for forgiveness and Jesus. Those who say Law is not valid, say also that Jesus is not valid.

But, even though I think the law is valid, I think there should be right reason to obey it. Obeying should not be based on that person tries to earn salvation by doing so, it should be based on that we love God.

If you love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:15

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

Messianic Israelite · May 19, 2021

sun rise said:
God's fundamental law, the greatest commandments law of love upon which everything is based, will never be broken. It is at the core of the world's religions, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism as well as Christianity and is expressed in many different ways.

As long as the universe endures, the law of love will endure.

Hi Sun rise. Good morning. The problem is, love needs to be defined and it is defined through the Law. Take for example the dietary laws. We believe in our faith that the dietary laws of Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 are beneficial to the human body. Some creatures and animals were not meant to be consumed by human beings, such as pork or shrimp, they were rather to be used as garbage collectors, waste disposers etc. Yahweh has revealed out of love the things that will help His people to have healthy bodies and healthy minds. By rejecting His Law, we do damage to ourselves. We may get diseases or ailments and our bodies can be weakened. Yahweh is love. He has revealed His Law to His people, and that Law was given out of love to His people who accept that Yahweh knows best.

Messianic Israelite · May 19, 2021

Altfish said:
Why is "Fornication" against the law?

Hi Altfish. Good morning. In the 10 commandments, we have "You shall not commit adultery". That's the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law is that we should abstain from all forms of lust and fornication. Yahshua proved this when he said that even lusting after a woman in our heart is committing adultery in Matthew 5:27-28. There is a spirit in the law and we can see that spirit when we magnify it as it was intended to be.

1 Corinthians 10:8 tells us that the Israelites commit fornication and Yahweh judged them severely for it. Jude 1:7 says that Sodom was judged because they had given themselves to fornication. But even in scriptures like Ezekiel 16:26, fornication is despised by Yahweh. Many times Yahweh uses the illustration of fornication to show how Israel have turned to idolatry and rejected the relationship with Him. And they are many instances in the NT where fornication is condemned as something evil in scriptures such as Ephesians 5:3.

The commandments of Yahweh don't teach us to be fleshly, but spiritually minded. Fornication is a violation of the spirit of the law. Galatians 5:18 says:
"But if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

When we follow the spirit of the law, we are not under the penalty of the law.

Romans 7:6 says:
"...so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter."

Messianic Israelite · May 19, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Seems to me that elsewhere in the New Testament, the author argues that the Old Law is still in effect, but it only ever applied to the living, and Christians have "died with Christ" through baptism and are therefore "dead" for the purposes of the law.

Of course, the Bible could very well have contradictory messages on this. I wouldn't expect every passage of the Bible to agree with every other passage.

Hi 9-10ths_Penguin. Good morning. I have found that mainly Paul is used as the main proponent for the doing away of the commandments of Yahweh. However, as Peter said, Paul's writings have been severely twisted by those who have taken his writings out of context. Peter says of Paul "15 And account that the longsuffering of our Master is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you; 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:15-17) Many times, all you have to do is read the quote in context and you'll find Paul wasn't advocating that the Law of Yahweh was done away with, but rather that animal sacrifice, ritual circumcision (the shedding of blood) and the penalty of the law has been done away with through Yahshua the Messiah.

Every Bible passage does harmonize. I believe that. It's one of the proofs that Yahweh authored this magnus opus that is the Bible.

Messianic Israelite · May 19, 2021

1213 said:
No. And, if it would be, then there would be no sin. And if there is no sin, there would be no need for forgiveness and Jesus. Those who say Law is not valid, say also that Jesus is not valid.

But, even though I think the law is valid, I think there should be right reason to obey it. Obeying should not be based on that person tries to earn salvation by doing so, it should be based on that we love God.

If you love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:15

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

Hi 1213. Good morning. Indeed. Salvation does not come through human effort; it is a free gift from Yahweh. No human can purchase his salvation with anything he might do. Obeying should be based on love, but it might start off with the fact that one simply wants to make it into the Kingdom and there's nothing wrong with that. As we start living the Kingdom way of life, we learn to love Yahweh more and more until our every action is motivated through love for Yahweh and our fellow men. 1 John 4:18 speaks of a 'perfect love'. Many fail to attain to that perfect love described.

Altfish · May 20, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Hi Altfish. Good morning. In the 10 commandments, we have "You shall not commit adultery". That's the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law is that we should abstain from all forms of lust and fornication. Yahshua proved this when he said that even lusting after a woman in our heart is committing adultery in Matthew 5:27-28. There is a spirit in the law and we can see that spirit when we magnify it as it was intended to be.

1 Corinthians 10:8 tells us that the Israelites commit fornication and Yahweh judged them severely for it. Jude 1:7 says that Sodom was judged because they had given themselves to fornication. But even in scriptures like Ezekiel 16:26, fornication is despised by Yahweh. Many times Yahweh uses the illustration of fornication to show how Israel have turned to idolatry and rejected the relationship with Him. And they are many instances in the NT where fornication is condemned as something evil in scriptures such as Ephesians 5:3.

The commandments of Yahweh don't teach us to be fleshly, but spiritually minded. Fornication is a violation of the spirit of the law. Galatians 5:18 says:
"But if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

When we follow the spirit of the law, we are not under the penalty of the law.

Romans 7:6 says:
"...so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter."

Ignoring the relevance of the 10 Commandments. They say you can't shop on a Sunday, and are mainly about an insecure and jealous god.

Fornication is not adultery. A man and wife can fornicate.

sun rise · May 20, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
The problem is, love needs to be defined and it is defined through the Law.

To me it's the reverse. Valid law is an intellectual consequence of love. For Christians it's clearly stated as such

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

For Jews who follow Kabbalah, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Why? Because every human being has a root in the Unity, and to reject the minutest particle of the Unity is to reject it all.” - Baal Shem Tov

Messianic Israelite · Jun 7, 2021

Altfish said:
Ignoring the relevance of the 10 Commandments. They say you can't shop on a Sunday, and are mainly about an insecure and jealous god.

Fornication is not adultery. A man and wife can fornicate.

Hi Altfish. Good evening. Indeed, fornication is not adultery, but in the same way magnifying the Law You Shall Not Steal suggests we should work for our livelihoods, so also the commandment You Shall Not Commit Adultery suggests we should only have sex within the confines of marriage. The Laws of Yahweh are not like the laws of man. They can be examined carefully and scrutinized and magnified, because every angle of the Law has something we can learn from. They are heaven sent laws.

In terms of Yahweh being insecure, I wouldn't call Him that at all. He is truthful. And He does become jealous because He knows that He is the true and living Mighty One and all other names and mighty ones are pagan in nature - figmentations of the human mind. If anything the fact that Yahweh is a jealous El helps to prove that He is indeed the true Creator. If you had created this world and everything in it, the birds, the animals, the flowers, the trees, and you saw people attributing your work to another (an idol), how would you feel? I don't know about you, but I would feel indignant.

In terms of the Sabbath Day, it is truly the best day of the week. It's not Sunday, but Saturday, Saturday being the seventh day of the week in which Yahweh rested. Sunday is the first day of the week. Without the Sabbath, I personally would probably be overworked and run down. But it's true, the Sabbath isn't a time for shopping, but for resting and studying the Word.

Altfish · Jun 8, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Hi Altfish. Good evening. Indeed, fornication is not adultery, but in the same way magnifying the Law You Shall Not Steal suggests we should work for our livelihoods, so also the commandment You Shall Not Commit Adultery suggests we should only have sex within the confines of marriage. The Laws of Yahweh are not like the laws of man. They can be examined carefully and scrutinized and magnified, because every angle of the Law has something we can learn from. They are heaven sent laws.

In terms of Yahweh being insecure, I wouldn't call Him that at all. He is truthful. And He does become jealous because He knows that He is the true and living Mighty One and all other names and mighty ones are pagan in nature - figmentations of the human mind. If anything the fact that Yahweh is a jealous El helps to prove that He is indeed the true Creator. If you had created this world and everything in it, the birds, the animals, the flowers, the trees, and you saw people attributing your work to another (an idol), how would you feel? I don't know about you, but I would feel indignant.

In terms of the Sabbath Day, it is truly the best day of the week. It's not Sunday, but Saturday, Saturday being the seventh day of the week in which Yahweh rested. Sunday is the first day of the week. Without the Sabbath, I personally would probably be overworked and run down. But it's true, the Sabbath isn't a time for shopping, but for resting and studying the Word.

Yahweh has a big problem communicating. His 'writings' can basically be interpreted how ever you want. When you, a follower, has to use phrases like "suggest" to explain a lines meaning; then it is time to give up.

Every day is Sabbath for me, I shop, play, eat, drink, when I want to.

Shakeel · Jun 8, 2021

Altfish said:
Why is "Fornication" against the law?

It's for animals.

9-10ths_Penguin · Jun 8, 2021

Messianic Israelite said:
Hi Altfish. Good evening. Indeed, fornication is not adultery, but in the same way magnifying the Law You Shall Not Steal suggests we should work for our livelihoods, so also the commandment You Shall Not Commit Adultery suggests we should only have sex within the confines of marriage. The Laws of Yahweh are not like the laws of man. They can be examined carefully and scrutinized and magnified, because every angle of the Law has something we can learn from. They are heaven sent laws.

I can't imagine the hubris involved in saying that the Ten Commandments are from God, yet in the same breath list off corrections to them.

The Law has been done away with?

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