• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is Catholicism a Christian religion ?

rational experiences

Veteran Member
the Catholic religion is a product of at least three religious traditions: Biblical Christianity, Greek philosophy and the pagan religions of the Middle East and Europe.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is the Word of God, However it's theologians are strongly influenced by the philosophies of the ancient pagan Greeks, and this colored their teachings. For example, the doctrine of the inherent immortality of the human soul does not appear in the Bible. It was taught by the Greek philosophers and is now sanctified by their adoption into the Church as a fundamental doctrine of Catholicism.

Other pagan beliefs are Christmas, Easter, Saints, Mariology, use of the cross, images in ritual, and the worship of a Trinity.
All these doctrine come not from the Bible, but from pagan religions. The mainstream pew sitters have been told these teachings are biblical, but there not.

John Henry Cardinal Newman in An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine gives a long list of traditional practices, including “incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings, holy water; holidays . . .” he then says that they “are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.”

Additionally there is the practice or acceptance of spiritism, witchcraft, tarot cards, worship of the dead. If this surprises you, then think about Halloween.

In cemeteries, Haitians (Christians) gather after church to ask "the spirit of death" for any number of desires and petitions during the traditional Day of the Dead. Christian participate in these festivities, which combine elements of Christianity and voodoo.

The question: If above is true, can Catholics claim to be true Christians ?
The human teaching for all humans is one.

One earth God planet as a mass.
One earth heavens gods stone history as mass.

One life teaching preaching a human life.

One the teaching.

Then nations irradiated by satanic UFO occult fallout quoted DNA genesis my nation is a self owned teaching. Teaching basic principles one planet but depicting my new human lineage by nation.

Science said hence one God as a theme is medical science advice why genetics self expression changed by nation.

All human life equal as one earth God teaching.

So don't allow nuclear satanic influences to false preach egotism actually.

Titles are fake. Human is first equal.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why would you have to understand a conclusion to reach it? I referenced dark matter earlier, can we not come to the conclusion that dark matter exists in some unknown form because we don't understand it?
'Dark matter' is the name of a problem, not of an 'understanding' that answers the problem. We don't even known whether dark matter is a thing, a force or a misunderstanding of the laws of gravity. That is, we understand only that we don't understand.
Because, we take it as axiomatic that [5]there is only one God. So we have to come to an understanding where all five axioms(marked) are maintained.
I see no connection at all between your premise and your conclusion.
"He made all things, and without Him was made nothing that was made." Did Jesus create Himself?
Since he took material form, something the author of Mark would never expect God to do, he would indeed have created his own material form. (I infer that the form was an ordinary zygote conceived between a Jewish couple, and that his 'spirit' occupied the zygote. That seems the simplest hypothesis.)
Because, He is God. :)
So this is the Jesus-the-Inveterate-Liar model you're urging?
Agreed. The NT doesn't cohesively wrap the pieces up into a single concept. The pieces when taken in totality without thinking you should suborn some passages to others leaves only a Triune diety.
What 'triune deity'? If there was an historical Jesus he never heard of such a thing. His God was the monogod of the Jews.
No, I don't. Th Trinitarian view is that the Father is indeed the one and only true God. Amen.
No, the Trinity doctrine says that there are three 'persons' in the 'godhead' and that the Father is only one of them, Jesus and the Ghost being the other two. Hence the 'tri' part of 'triune'
No it is not, certainly not anymore that saying "before Abraham was, I am" is a strict claim of divinity.
Jesus says to the Father, "You're the only true God. And I'm not" ─ a message maintained consistently in all the other quotes I set out. So I don't think your answer is available on the evidence and I'll assume accordingly that only your faith thinks so.
Nowhere is there a strict denial of divinity just like there is no strict claim.
You're playing games with the word 'divinity', trying to shade 'divinity' means 'associated with heaven' into 'divinity' means 'god-status'. Pheep! Off side!
You seem to be under the misapprehension that there is a contest, a conflict between the verses and we're looking for the preponderance of the text to decide which one is right.]
I don't need a preponderance. At the very very least I have (a) John 17:3 (b) your acknowledgement above that the Trinity doctrine isn't found in the NT and (c) The Trinity doctrine is incoherent anyway.
Jesus is axiomatically the uncreated Creator God, the God of Israel who led the Jews out of Egypt, and the Father is axiomatically the one and only true God. Along with a few other statements, the Trinity is the answer to question of how to bring those undeniable facts into harmony.
*Chuckle*
You're not just rejecting the Trinity, you refusing to even understand it on its own terms.
That would put me in the same boat as Jesus, who'd never even heard of it.

And since the churches think, correctly, that it's incoherent, there's nothing coherent to be understood ─ 1+1+1=3 and 1+1+1≠1. Something which "cannot be cogently demonstrated by reason once it has been revealed" may correctly be called a nonsense (and more forceful synonyms, but 'nonsense' will serve).
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
He did once directly say "I and my Father are one",...
Come on...so John 17 was a prayer to himself?

What did Jesus mean at John 10:30? Read John 17:20-22, and you'll see. 'Unity in action and thought', maybe? You know that...right?

...and when Thomas called Him "my God", Jesus didn't rebuke him, but told him that people who believed [that Jesus is our God] without seeing are blessed.

No, no, no. Jesus told Thomas that those who believed that Jesus was resurrected without seeing, would be blessed.

You're twisting. Why?

John also includes the story where Jesus says "before Abraham was, I am" and they promptly attempted to stone Him for blasphemy because Jesus was clearly claiming to be God with that statement.

Again, no! They were going to stone Him because of stating He was over 1800 years old.
How do we know it wasn't for claiming to be God? Because at the Sanhedrin trial, which all 4 gospels record, the accusers never accused Him of claiming Godship! Only that He said He was "the Son of God."

Since, grammatically, John 1:1 can be rendered "....and the Word was a god", that fits with the context...."the Word was with God", and a few verses later, "no one has ever seen God."
 
Last edited:

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
'Dark matter' is the name of a problem, not of an 'understanding' that answers the problem.
Dark Matter is an unknown that answers the problem of why the observed effects of gravity on galaxies and such doesn't match the observed mass of the universe. Matter that only interacts with gravity is the reasoned conclusion of where the evidence leads. What dark matter is, remains a mystery.

I see no connection at all between your premise and your conclusion.
I get that you have some difficulty in understanding. I'd be interested if you can come to a different understanding for how Jesus can be God, the Father can be God, the Holy Spirit can be God, they are all distinct and not identifiable with each other, and there is only one God.

So this is the Jesus-the-Inveterate-Liar model you're urging?
If you could point out where, if He is God, He lied, sure. You haven't done that yet.

Since he took material form, something the author of Mark would never expect God to do, he would indeed have created his own material form.
You're playing obtuse, and no thank you to that. In the context of John, did Jesus create Himself totally or is Jesus uncreated?

No, the Trinity doctrine says that there are three 'persons' in the 'godhead' and that the Father is only one of them, Jesus and the Ghost being the other two. Hence the 'tri' part of 'triune'
Yes. Again, the Father is the one and only true God. Trinitarians believe in one God, not three. You can accept or reject that belief, but don't misrepresent it.

Jesus says to the Father, "You're the only true God. And I'm not
You're falsely adding the "I'm not". It doesn't exist.

You're playing games with the word 'divinity', trying to shade 'divinity' means 'associated with heaven' into 'divinity' means 'god-status'. Pheep! Off side!
There is only one divinity. There is only one God. That's monotheism.

*Chuckle*
It's unfortunate when people can't just acknowledge they don't have a response.

That would put me in the same boat as Jesus, who'd never even heard of it.
If you want to discuss whatever nonsense you imagine in your head instead of the Trinity, why didn't you say that in the first place. I thought we were having an honest discussion on a doctrine.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
the Catholic religion is a product of at least three religious traditions: Biblical Christianity, Greek philosophy and the pagan religions of the Middle East and Europe.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is the Word of God, However it's theologians are strongly influenced by the philosophies of the ancient pagan Greeks, and this colored their teachings. For example, the doctrine of the inherent immortality of the human soul does not appear in the Bible. It was taught by the Greek philosophers and is now sanctified by their adoption into the Church as a fundamental doctrine of Catholicism.

Other pagan beliefs are Christmas, Easter, Saints, Mariology, use of the cross, images in ritual, and the worship of a Trinity.
All these doctrine come not from the Bible, but from pagan religions. The mainstream pew sitters have been told these teachings are biblical, but there not.

John Henry Cardinal Newman in An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine gives a long list of traditional practices, including “incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings, holy water; holidays . . .” he then says that they “are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.”

Additionally there is the practice or acceptance of spiritism, witchcraft, tarot cards, worship of the dead. If this surprises you, then think about Halloween.

In cemeteries, Haitians (Christians) gather after church to ask "the spirit of death" for any number of desires and petitions during the traditional Day of the Dead. Christian participate in these festivities, which combine elements of Christianity and voodoo.

The question: If above is true, can Catholics claim to be true Christians ?
Yes they can. Christianity is already a pagan savior religion spin on Judaism. Bit more here and there..what does it matter.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Come on...so John 17 was a prayer to himself?
That's not what any Trinitarian believes.

You're twisting. Why?
No I'm not, that's the context. Jesus asked Thomas who he thought Jesus was. Thomas responded. Jesus responded to Thomas's answer.

Again, no! They were going to stone Him because of stating He was over 1800 years old.
Yes. They tried to stone Him because He claimed to be the burning bush that spoke to Moses.

Since, grammatically, John 1:1 can be rendered "....and the Word was a god", that fits with the context...."the Word was with God", and a few verses later, "no one has ever seen God."
A God, the God, God... there's only one God.

Are you saying you're a polytheist, that there are multiple gods?
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
@Deeje

Regarding the body of Christ, I recall my last in person interaction with a Witness evangelist. I told them I was happy in my relationship with God and Christ, but that I wished him well in bringing people to turn to Christ as their savior. We ended the short discussion by agreeing that if we both love God, seek to come closer to Him in honesty, and trust in Jesus for salvation we could expect that whether I am right and we end up in heaven, or he is right and we end up in a non-heaven paradise(a new Earth? is that right?) we would both end up on the right side of things.

I feel that we both accepted each other, even through our doctrinal differences, as members of that singular body of Christ. Was he wrong to do so, in your opinion or according to Jehova's Witness orthodoxy?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes. Again, the Father is the one and only true God.
So Jesus, you say. is also the only true God? And the Ghost is the only true God?

And Father is not Son or Ghost and Son is not Ghost?

Then exactly as the churches have said, and I affirm, the Trinity doctrine is incoherent, a nonsense ─ and the title 'mystery' is merely a euphemism.

But I respect your right to believe whatever you like as long as you're a decent person.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
So Jesus, you say. is also the only true God? And the Ghost is the only true God?

And Father is not Son or Ghost and Son is not Ghost?
Yes. Of course, the way in which they are all one God and the way in which they are distinct are different. Shared ousia, distinct hypostases. So there's no violation of the law of identity as we understand it.

Then exactly as the churches have said, and I affirm, the Trinity doctrine is incoherent
Well, my Church doesn't say that, it only says it is unknown and unknowable.

But I respect your right to believe whatever you like as long as you're a decent person.
Same to you.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
A God, the God, God... there's only one God.

Are you saying you're a polytheist, that there are multiple gods?
I only worship Jesus’ Father, as Jesus said to do (John 4:23-24).
Paul wrote, “there are many gods and many lords’. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6) Was Paul a polytheist? No. For Paul there was only “one God, the Father.” He didn’t add anybody else to it.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
No, I think the body of Christ is the body of Christ. It is only Catholicism in the strictest theological/metaphysical sense that all participation in the body is through the one single Church Christ.
According to my research, that is clearly untrue in the strictest biblical evidence. You ignore the fact that an apostasy was foretold by Christ and his apostles (Matthew 13:24-30; 2 Peter 2:1-3; 1 Timothy 4:1-3)......and history attests to the fact that it happened. Denial will not alter what is recorded concerning the conduct of the church over many centuries. Forced conversions, heinous acts of torture and bloodshed are not indicative of any conduct advocated by Jesus or the apostles who represented him after his death.

Accumulating wealth and power, against all the teachings of Christ, led to conduct that was identified as anti-Christian. “The anti-Christ” has been around a very long time....and the conduct of this church, recorded in the history of many nations, has never been a true reflection of genuine “Christianity”....just the opposite in fact.

Again, in the strictest sense that all Christians are members of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church played its part in recognizing the inspired writings, collecting them, accurately choosing them from among many false claimants, and preserving them. Of course, I believe they did so under a divine protection, the sort you would deny existed for the Church. If I didn't, I'd certainly be amazed to find I agreed they happened to be perfectly successful in only this one instance.

I have covered these issues already.....no church can claim to serve God whilst their conduct is anti-Christian. If your conduct does not match your claims to be a follower of Christ, then why would Jesus ever accept those who bring reproach on him, and his disciples? (Matthew 7:21-23)

If it was time to bring the complete scriptures into the world, God could use whomever wished to do so, but looking at the church’s failure to abide by the scripture that they claimed to have based their beliefs upon, how could anyone question the church, who never allowed anyone but the clergy to read the Scriptures and punished anyone who did, with death?

Keeping the masses in ignorance and with fear as the basis, their captive audience had little choice but to comply and believe whatever they were told. Who was allowed to question? Only the brave dared to speak up....but the “wheat” were always there.

None......
Please provide your scriptural evidence that any of the points I raised in post #70 are backed by the Bible and are not just the product of a corrupt church?

I am happy to discuss them....are you?
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
According to my research, that is clearly untrue in the strictest biblical evidence.
What Biblical research do you have that shows there is more than one Church, more than one body of Christ?

You ignore the fact that an apostasy was foretold by Christ and his apostles
Certainly not, we had lots of apostasies. Judaizers, gnostics, Montanism, Docetism, Psilanthropism...

who never allowed anyone but the clergy to read the Scriptures and punished anyone who did, with death?
That's nonsense, a farcical fiction.

I don't pretend that the earthly organization of the Church has been perfect, but if we're going to act like has to be... the Watchtower uses cult tactics like family estrangement and shunning to force people in line, your church covered up child sex abuse just like the Catholic hierarchy did. The Watchtower is fallible as an organization comprised of humans because it is made up of sinful fallible humans. I doubt you look at that as a reason not to be a member of the Jehova's Witnesses, or that it reflects upon the revealed truths that have been presented to you.

You're being hyperbolic. I believe God loves me. I believe that Jesus is my savior. I find that those beliefs are very much found in the Bible :)

By the way, did you see post #108 where I try to better express what I mean by the catholic nature of the body/Church of Christ.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
@Deeje

Regarding the body of Christ, I recall my last in person interaction with a Witness evangelist. I told them I was happy in my relationship with God and Christ, but that I wished him well in bringing people to turn to Christ as their savior. We ended the short discussion by agreeing that if we both love God, seek to come closer to Him in honesty, and trust in Jesus for salvation we could expect that whether I am right and we end up in heaven, or he is right and we end up in a non-heaven paradise(a new Earth? is that right?) we would both end up on the right side of things.

I feel that we both accepted each other, even through our doctrinal differences, as members of that singular body of Christ. Was he wrong to do so, in your opinion or according to Jehova's Witness orthodoxy?

We are commanded by Christ to deliver his message about the Kingdom to all who will listen.....(Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) It wasn't an option...it was a life saving commission given to all of Christ's disciples, so it carried responsibilities. The messenger would not be a lawbreaker or an immoral person. If one was found to be guilty of any conduct that was in opposition to God's laws, the duty of the Congregation elders was to disfellowship (excommunicate) such a person after careful examination of the situation. (1 Corinthians 5:9-13; 2 John 10-11) We do not expect any humans to be perfect, but when God's laws are broken, we do expect consequences in accordance with the Bible's directives.

So when the message is received and someone expresses interest in the Kingdom message, we are to stay and instruct that person, as Jesus commanded. (Matthew 10:11-14) But if the message is rejected, then we are to move on....allowing that person to reap the consequences of their own decisions.

You see, if someone is content to remain in Christendom, then that is their choice to make, but we do not believe that staying with any self-confessed "Christian" body who teaches what Jesus did not teach, can expect his nod of approval. (Matthew 7:21-23)

In just one doctrine alone, (upheld by the majority of the churches of Christendom) we can see that the First of the Ten Commandments is broken....
Exodus 20:3....(NRSVCE)
" I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 3 you shall have no other gods before (besides) me."

Christendom has another god in place of the Father.....yet there is not one single verse of scripture that even suggests that there is a "godhead" (a made up word) or that Jesus is God Almighty, or that he shares any equality with his Father at all. He is a servant of his God, (Acts 3:13) as he always has been.

There is a command in Revelation that is applied to "the Lord's Day" or as we believe, the time we are living in now....
Revelation 18:1-5...
"After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority; and the earth was made bright with his splendor. 2 He called out with a mighty voice,

“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!
It has become a dwelling place of demons,
a haunt of every foul spirit,
a haunt of every foul bird,
a haunt of every foul and hateful beast.
3 For all the nations have drunk
of the wine of the wrath of her fornication,
and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her,
and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxury.”

4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,

Come out of her, my people,
so that you do not take part in her sins,
and so that you do not share in her plagues;
5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities."
(NRSVCE)

Some have wrongly assumed that "Babylon the great" has no relationship to the church today....but that is not what the Bible indicates.
The original city of Babylon was built by the first rebel after the flood of Noah's day...Nimrod.

Babylon is connected to the false religious ideas that were promoted by those post flood rebels and taken into all the world when God confused the language at Babel....this means that the "greater Babylon" mirrors the original, which was the springboard for all the false religious ideas that permeate all the religions of the world..... multiplicities of gods, belief in an immoral soul, hellfire, mother goddess worship, idols, and everything that God finds detestable in all of them. They all have the same author.

The warning for God's people is to "come out of her" because God is going to bring judgment upon her....so that is the decision for all who want to be saved when God brings her down......'her sins and iniquities are as high as heaven', so he does not hold back from meting out his justice. Anyone remaining associated with false worship of ant sort, will go down with that torpedoed ship.

We have to have obeyed that directive, which encompasses all the world's religion who demonstrate that they practice the worship of ancient Babylon. That is what my studies have revealed and as one who was raised in Babylon the great, I have heeded the directive and separated myself entirely from all connection to her.

Revelation 18:21...
"Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying,

“With such violence Babylon the great city
will be thrown down,
and will be found no more"
. (NRSVCE)

Once it is gone, we will never see false worship practiced in the world again. This will be God's doing, according to scripture.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What Biblical research do you have that shows there is more than one Church, more than one body of Christ?
There is only "one body of Christ"...but Roman Catholicism has never been a part of it. Jesus' words at the judgment are...
"‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’"

So the "weeds" that Jesus foretold, who would take over in the world of Christianity, would never be recognized as belonging to him. NEVER means 'not ever".

I don't pretend that the earthly organization of the Church has been perfect, but if we're going to act like has to be...
Who said it had to be perfect? Not us. But those who purport to serve the interests of the God of the Bible as disciples of his son, will not be found as "evildoers'. If they break God's laws they will be booted out of the brotherhood just as it says to do in the Bible. "A little leaven ferments the whole lump."

Just for your information.....the Watchtower is a Bible Society that prints our Bible literature. We are not the Watchtower. We are Jehovah's Witnesses, because that is what we do.....we are to bear witness to God's name and Kingdom as Jesus instructed. Can you see any other Christian body doing what we have done continuously for over a hundred years? That witness was to be given in all the inhabited earth, right to "the end" as Jesus said...(Matthew 24:14) The message is about God's Kingdom? Can the Catholic church even give you a definition of what they believe the Kingdom of God is, and what it will do for those who serve the interests of the Christ on earth...?
How would you answer?

the Watchtower uses cult tactics like family estrangement and shunning to force people in line, your church covered up child sex abuse just like the Catholic hierarchy did. The Watchtower is fallible as an organization comprised of humans because it is made up of sinful fallible humans. I doubt you look at that as a reason not to be a member of the Jehova's Witnesses, or that it reflects upon the revealed truths that have been presented to you.
Are you serious? Cult tactics? I guess that makes the first Christians cult members too then? We take all our beliefs and practices from the scriptures, as I have shown you many times. Did you read 1 Corinthians 5:9-13? or 2 John 10-11?
Of course our brotherhood is made up of imperfect men and women, but if they break God's laws, they are not permitted to remain and make a mockery of them. Nor are they permitted to spread their corruption in the congregations.

Our organization did not cover up child sex abuse.......conviction wasn't easy because such crimes were almost always without witnesses. Biblically speaking we are not permitted to pass judgment on someone who claims to be innocent, and has no witness or evidence against him, except the word of a child......but we had faith that God would root out these disgusting people from our brotherhood in his own way and time, which he did, time and again. We are not the police and the family members were free to take the offender to court if that was their desire.

But in past decades, child abuse was not acknowledged as the heinous and destructive crime that it is today. The judicial system handled it very differently, and the lawyers for the defense were ruthless in their cross examinations. The victims often had to face their abusers in court, so the judicial process was often more traumatic for the victim, than the actual assault.

The one thing that made child abuse so difficult to predict was the grooming and building of trust, of not only the victim(s), but also of their parents. We have no separation of our children from their parents by having Sunday School or Youth camps where such conduct was often carried out....even the Boy Scouts were infiltrated by these monsters. No organization was immune to them. When we found evidence against them, we kicked them out, and now we have a very good child protection policy in place. And the judicial system handles these cases in a very different way now.

In no way were we ever even a close reflection of the systemic child abuse that took place in Catholic institutions around the world. The church became a haven for child molesters and homosexuals because their victims were too afraid to speak up. Who would defend orphans from those predators? They were defenseless.

It always puzzled me that these sex offenders almost always chose young boys to sodomize them and perform other gross sex acts on them until I saw an interview with a convicted Catholic pedophile in prison, who had abused many children. When asked why, his answer shocked me.....he said that in Catholic teaching sex was only prohibited with women, so they didn't think that sexually abusing boys was a sin.....think about that justification for a moment.....
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
So when the message is received and someone expresses interest in the Kingdom message, we are to stay and instruct that person, as Jesus commanded. (Matthew 10:11-14) But if the message is rejected, then we are to move on....allowing that person to reap the consequences of their own decisions.

You see, if someone is content to remain in Christendom, then that is their choice to make, but we do not believe that staying with any self-confessed "Christian" body who teaches what Jesus did not teach, can expect his nod of approval.
Pardon me for needing further clarification, are you saying that someone with an honest faith in God and reliance on Jesus for salvation but who is incorrect will be consigned to death(I think that's what you all believe, death, right?) And the missionary was therefore incorrect to discuss with me us both being honest faithful Christians who can expect the mercy of Christ on the last day?

Who said it had to be perfect?
Fair enough, I was hyperbolic.

Can you see any other Christian body doing what we have done continuously for over a hundred years? That witness was to be given in all the inhabited earth, right to "the end" as Jesus said...
Yes. The Catholic Church has been witnessing for 2000 years, Catholic missionaries have had their blood shed on every populated continent for the sake of Christ.
The Mormons have also been doing it for over a century as well.

Are you serious? Cult tactics?
Yes. If you require, and therefore threaten, familial estrangement on the basis of whether someone stay a Jehova's Witness or not. Control of family connections/relationships is one of the most common cult techniques.

Our organization did not cover up child sex abuse.....
The judgements levied against them, settlements they agreed to pay out, and that they took a multi million dollar fine rather than follow a court order and turn over the documents detailing their knowledge of sexual predators say otherwise.

No organization was immune to them.
No, no one is immune to them. And, I wasn't trying to single your church out for its failings in this regard

Not only is no organization immune, they also find the ways to weasel out, whether there is a hierarchy to corrupt and protect them or there is no structure. I used to be a Baptist, and with no leadership there was an issue of dangerous pastors just going across the country and popping up at new churches whenever they got caught; with no central authority there was no system to warn the next Church about it.

The point was not to attack the Watchtower organization, or its members. It was exactly the quoted statement. No organization is immune to monsters. No organization is immune to people who care more about their image than taking care of victims. No organization is immune to people who will use the power that organization gives, in whatever way they can.

I saw an interview with a convicted Catholic pedophile in prison
I'd like to see that interview. The vows of celibacy and chastity that priests take do not only cover women.
 

Ashoka

श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
What evidence is there that the Catholic Church accepts these things?

Former Catholic here; none of those practices are accepted by the Church. They are considered to be demonic. There are specific prayers against such practices.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Jesus created one Church, not 30,000, and that Church started out with the Twelve, and from there the Apostles selected others to continue on preaching the Gospel. If this Church supposedly fell into "apostacy", then what Jesus promised never came to fruition.

Are the JW's that Church? Well, since it's only a couple hundred years old, how could it be? Did Jesus start it? Was the Governing Boards appointed by the appointees of the Apostles? Did the JW's select the cannon of the Bible they themselves use? Are they somehow perfect themselves?

ALL groups, including even the early Church itself, will have or have had some who walk-the-walk and some who won't. Sometimes those who don't will even will be the leaders. Were the Apostles perfect? Jesus certainly didn't think so.

Thus, the JW position is totally unwarranted when considering the facts.
 
Top