What does it actually mean to be saved in Christianity?

Conscious thoughts said:

Well i am sure that it is not what the Bible means by being saved

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I am sure I could do some mental gymnastics, write up a huge wall of text explaining how it DOES say that and finagle my way into as sufficient a position as many taken by actual Christians, honestly. It highly doubt it would be all that difficult.

Tzephanyahu said:

The true gospel is to turn from your ways to Yahweh's ways, as detailed throughout the Torah and expounded upon by the Messiah.

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The Torah gives 633 commandments to be followed lest we cheese Yahweh off and he smites us. Jesus said he didn’t come to destroy the Law or set it aside but to fulfill it. I recently read that what he meant by fulfill was to live up to it, to be a shining example. Yet, and as much as I think Jesus is a cool dude for much of what he taught, he didn’t abide by many of them. There are no reports of him making the required sacrifices, he worked on the Sabbath, he refused to stone the adulterous woman. So, I don’t know.

Salvation is a gift of grace freely given by the Creator for all those who seek Him in truth and recognise that Yeshua is indeed His Son. However, thereafter we are to walk in His ways. Not to keep salvation but to honour Him in our obedience. We're not to continue sinning or go by modern Christianity's definition of what is and isn't sin - but be led by the Word and Spirit.

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So even though I’m not “Christian”, but I believe Jesus existed as a teacher, prophet, messenger, sage, guru, yogi, jivanmukta (someone self-realized and “liberated” while in the body), maybe even aṃśāvatara (anshavatar, a partial incarnation, but I’m iffy on that), am I saved according to Christian teachings? We’re all children of God, so that part goes without saying.

If I live my life being devoted to (my image and view of) God to the best of my ability and with all my heart, soul and strength; live as righteous a life as possible; help and love others (that love others part is a challenge at times); don’t hurt others, don’t steal, kill, commit adultery or worship idols; if I hope that on my deathbed or as that tractor trailer is bearing down on me I remember God, am I saved according to Christian teachings? What else do I need to do?

If this is correct, then almost 2 billion Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains are theoretically saved per Christian teachings. It should work even removing Jesus from the equation because they simply don’t know of him but have their own version of a teacher of his caliber. The word ‘savior’ isn’t used, but if it means being saved from ignorance, unrighteousness, and darkness by those teachers then it’s as good a word as any.

This is what makes me wonder why Christianity is so special. Gandhi (whom I think is neither wholly a hero nor wholly a villain as some people paint him) said “After long study and experience, I have come to the conclusion that [1] all religions are true*; [2] all religions have some error in them; [3] all religions are almost as dear to me as my own Hinduism, in as much as all human beings should be as dear to one as one's own close relatives. My own veneration for other faiths is the same as that for my own faith; therefore no thought of conversion is possible.”

*My addition is that they are true for their followers. I think he did say that elsewhere.

Conscious thoughts said:

Well i am sure that it is not what the Bible means by being saved

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He said saved from Christianity, not saved in Christianity. Lots of atheists have been saved from Christianity.

Trailblazer said:

He said saved from Christianity, not saved in Christianity. Lots of atheists have been saved from Christianity.

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The thread is about christian being saved and how

Conscious thoughts said:

Is there no inward change that must happen for a Christian to be saved?

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Yes. In Christianity to “be reborn” is to deeply be changed and to “be saved” is to have changed and then choose to live by those changes.


Humbly
Hermit

Conscious thoughts said:

The thread is about christian being saved and how

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Yes I know.

Salvation has occurred once you see your past deeds in a new, clear light and understand why they were sinful. Then, you will not want to live as you used to and you will change.

But the pain of rebirth will also be followed by you learning to forgive yourself for your previous blindness. You will learn to be humble towards your old self, as well as towards those who remain as what you were and still may fail or harm themselves and others.

We are humble towards the shortcomings of ourselves and others because we have faith that we will relearn and change.


Humbly
Hermit

When I was 12 I had a born-again experience, accepted Jesus as my savior.

I immediately started doing the traditional that the newly saved seem to do in this country...and I hurt some people doing it.

Jesus promptly told me to shut up, sit down, and actually look, listen, and above all THINK before saying anything else.

So I did. I haven't renounced it in the five decades since.

HOWEVER...I am not sure what it means. First, I don't accept the cosmology and cosmogony that fundamentalists seem to believe in.

Second, for Jesus' death and resurrection to mean anything at all to me, Jesus had to be fully human, with actual experience at sinning and in doubt, not knowing whether his actions would be successful or not...and there had to be a very real chance that he would fail, that the forces of darkness would win....'sacrifice' by a perfect divine being who faces no chance of losing seems pretty meaningless in my book...

I still haven't resolved this...

Jainarayan said:

The Torah gives 633 commandments to be followed lest we cheese Yahweh off and he smites us. Jesus said he didn’t come to destroy the Law or set it aside but to fulfill it. I recently read that what he meant by fulfill was to live up to it, to be a shining example. Yet, and as much as I think Jesus is a cool dude for much of what he taught, he didn’t abide by many of them. There are no reports of him making the required sacrifices, he worked on the Sabbath, he refused to stone the adulterous woman. So, I don’t know.

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Hello friend,

Then you have misunderstood. But so have many millions of others and myself included. This happens when we just take the New Testament alone as the message of Yahweh. We miss the context of the whole Word and have a dichotomy of Law and Grace.

But, in truth, there is unity in both Torah and Grace. One cannot be without the other or you get Judaism or Modern Christianity. The truth is the path between these mountains - not on either one of them.

As for Messiah breaking the commandments there is no evidence for this. Had it done so His detractors, who watched His every move carefully to accuse Him, would have pounced. Doing good on the Sabbath, to bless others, is permitted. It is always permitted to do good and this kindness, love, charity and mercy supercedes Torah - even thr Sabbath. This was the Messiah’s point. However, doing vocational work on the Sabbath is still forbidden and switching days to Sunday is of man, not God.

I don't blame you for getting this wrong idea though. Christianity in general has done a poor job in the last century in communicating the Word of God. The OT has been practically thrown out in a lot of churches leaving them with a skewed message.

Peace

Conscious thoughts said:

Often Christians say they are saved. But what is it?

How are they saved? and i would think it is in the christian bible somewhere, but does it actually letter by letter say, All you have to do is to believe Jesus died on the cross, and that make you saved?? It is this part i can not understand.

As long as you believe you can do anything you want, even sin and be immoral?
Is there no inward change that must happen for a Christian to be saved?

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A Christian put their faith in Jesus for the salvation that He gives as a gift from God, but true faith is dead without being accompanies by good works. These good works include loving works for our neighbour and repenting of wrong doing and allowing God to work in us to change our behaviour and the ways we think.
Salvation does not come from just doing the works because we all fail in being 100% righteous, so we cannot rely on our works because they will never be perfect.

Conscious thoughts said:

Often Christians say they are saved. But what is it?

How are they saved? and i would think it is in the christian bible somewhere, but does it actually letter by letter say, All you have to do is to believe Jesus died on the cross, and that make you saved?? It is this part i can not understand.

As long as you believe you can do anything you want, even sin and be immoral?
Is there no inward change that must happen for a Christian to be saved?

Click to expand...

Salvation = saved from sin and hell, have eternal life.

What is necessary for salvation? Faith.

"Whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

What is faith? Here lies the difference in protestant/evangelical and catholic teaching (the endless "faith alone vs. faith with works" debate). Some say it's just believing (and confessing) what Christ did, other say it's also forgiving, keeping commandments, cooperation with grace, purifying the heart... - a path, an ongoing process.

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him." (John 3:36)

"As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." (James 2:26)

"First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance." (Acts 26:20)

How can you say you turned to God if you are not changing anything in heart and everyday life?

Tzephanyahu said:

Hello friend,

Then you have misunderstood. But so have many millions of others and myself included. This happens when we just take the New Testament alone as the message of Yahweh. We miss the context of the whole Word and have a dichotomy of Law and Grace.

But, in truth, there is unity in both Torah and Grace. One cannot be without the other or you get Judaism or Modern Christianity. The truth is the path between these mountains - not on either one of them.

As for Messiah breaking the commandments there is no evidence for this. Had it done so His detractors, who watched His every move carefully to accuse Him, would have pounced. Doing good on the Sabbath, to bless others, is permitted. It is always permitted to do good and this kindness, love, charity and mercy supercedes Torah - even thr Sabbath. This was the Messiah’s point. However, doing vocational work on the Sabbath is still forbidden and switching days to Sunday is of man, not God.

I don't blame you for getting this wrong idea though. Christianity in general has done a poor job in the last century in communicating the Word of God. The OT has been practically thrown out in a lot of churches leaving them with a skewed message.

Peace

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I haven’t misunderstood. I was baptized Catholic and raised as such. I attended what we called catechism, i.e. Sunday School, made my First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

I agree with the doing good on the Sabbath, but his enemies did pounce on him every chance they got. If they didn’t, he would have had no need to say the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. They wouldn’t have tried to stone him when he refused to stone the woman and said her sins, and others’ sins were forgiven.

I think who misunderstood were the Pharisees and many modern Christians. I don’t think Jesus was being a hypocrite or was himself confused when he said he didn’t come to abolish the Law. Rather, I think he came to live it by its spirit not literally by the letter. And that includes what looks like breaking it.

As I review and rethink what I wrote, or rather clarify, he knew what he was doing, they didn’t. Even his disciples had oatmeal between their ears until late in the game. The Paul came along and peed all over it.

I maintain that everyone who lives a righteous life lives Jesus’s way, regardless of whom and how they worship or what “religion” they’re affiliated with. That echoes the Bhagavad Gita 4.11: Sri Krishna said centuries before “In whatever way people surrender unto me, I reciprocate with them accordingly. Everyone follows my path, knowingly or unknowingly,” Righteousness (dharma), devotion to God (bhakti), love (prema) doesn’t belong to any one religion.

For me "being saved" means being saved from from false beliefs. So, I do not believe in existence of any God, soul, ideas of heaven or hell, last day (or the whole 1,000 years in case of Bahais) and judgment.

Aupmanyav said:

For me "being saved" means being saved from from false beliefs.

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Same for me. God save me from false beliefs!

beenherebeforeagain said:

When I was 12 I had a born-again experience, accepted Jesus as my savior.

I immediately started doing the traditional that the newly saved seem to do in this country...and I hurt some people doing it.

Jesus promptly told me to shut up, sit down, and actually look, listen, and above all THINK before saying anything else.

So I did. I haven't renounced it in the five decades since.

HOWEVER...I am not sure what it means. First, I don't accept the cosmology and cosmogony that fundamentalists seem to believe in.

Second, for Jesus' death and resurrection to mean anything at all to me, Jesus had to be fully human, with actual experience at sinning and in doubt, not knowing whether his actions would be successful or not...and there had to be a very real chance that he would fail, that the forces of darkness would win....'sacrifice' by a perfect divine being who faces no chance of losing seems pretty meaningless in my book...

I still haven't resolved this...

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Christ did despair on the cross, didn’t he?
“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
That tells me he was human. Perhaps also, more than that; but certainly human.
The agony in the garden of Gethsemane also confirms his humanity imo.

RestlessSoul said:

Christ did despair on the cross, didn’t he?
“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
That tells me he was human. Perhaps also, more than that; but certainly human.
The agony in the garden of Gethsemane also confirms his humanity imo.

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some versions show him as more human, others more or essentially divine...and for most of the born again crowd I experienced and have observed all through my life...Jesus might have been all human and all divine...but the human part never sinned, never ever got dirty, never even pooped, because, well, God can't be dirty...

That's not MY Jesus...

Conscious thoughts said:

Often Christians say they are saved. But what is it?

How are they saved? and i would think it is in the christian bible somewhere, but does it actually letter by letter say, All you have to do is to believe Jesus died on the cross, and that make you saved?? It is this part i can not understand.

As long as you believe you can do anything you want, even sin and be immoral?
Is there no inward change that must happen for a Christian to be saved?

Click to expand...

To be saved in Christianity is to have eternal life through the Lord Jesus. It includes being saved from hell. People may also use the term saved to say being in a bad situation in life and God turned things around for them.

My understanding is that when someone believes on Jesus( his identity as God, his death on the cross to pay for sin and bodily resurrection) and asks Jesus to forgive their sins and/or be their Savior, then Jesus becomes their Savior. Also in Christianity, their is something called a “ sinner’s prayer” . It is a prayer to ask Jesus to save you and often times people use the phase “ ask Jesus into your heart” which is another form of that prayer. In the Bible however, there is not a mention of sinner’s prayer. That is just tradition. Scripture however states in Romans 10:13 “..whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

My understanding is that when a person receives Jesus then God works in the person life to make their character more like Jesus and produce in their heart and life more of the fruit of the Spirit as described in Galatians 5:22-23. The work of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer is said to be progressive. It is often said in so many words that the believer does not produce this fruit through their own efforts or will but through God working in them.

To me to have faith in Jesus is to trust in him and be committed to him. It isn’t about performing or perfection. If for example one believes until trials or hardships come then completely abandons faith, that doesn’t sound like true faith in my opinion.

Psalm23 said:

To be saved in Christianity is to have eternal life through the Lord Jesus. It includes being saved from hell.

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That still doesn’t answer the question. Just how does one obtain that eternal life? What do you do to get it? What about the person in Greece in 353 BCE, over 300 years before Jesus appeared. Or the person in Sumeria in 1513 BCE? That person couldn’t know of him. Is that person condemned to hell? How does that person get eternal life?

Jainarayan said:

Is that person condemned to hell?

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No.