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6 Weeks

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I don't think so. Trauma in general affects people's major life decisions. My brother is homeless because of childhood trauma but if he didn't have it, I'd assume he'd have a better handle on COVID, his job, and such cause he's a very smart fellow. Just his mental health needs to be attended to. Traumatic situations can cause a lot and when you have a last minute decision such as abortion, it doesn't quite help the problem given the time restraint.

I can see that emphasizing women as only concerned with childbearing and having no other major life decisions as men do (if I read that right). But trauma does affect all life decisions. Abortion is pretty big given it has to do with the life of a child (finances as well as general health decisions like ending one's life to not deal with pain from a terminal illness). It does affect both parties.
What I mean is that this hyperfocus on abortion in your argument conceals that wome have many, many other life decisions to make, which are just as far reaching, but which seemingly don't warrant this handwringing over unsound minds being affected by trauma.

Do you feel women are aborting as the first resort to their problem?
I see no basis in reality to this allegiation.

The way many make it seem is as if women just all of the sudden say "I've been raped. Abort! Get it done with." I'm sure women (at least most?) who have gone through that doesn't make that decision on their own morals but out of what they feel as a necessity (assuming they abort not because of the child's father).
I feel that is an infantilization of women. We never say that a man is too traumatized, to wracked with grief etc. to do anything, regardless of what they've been through; we don't place male rape victims, male war survivors etc. under custody because they are "traumatized" and thus, by your argument, incapable of making life choices on their own. Yet, curiously, female minds are alleged to be too fragile to make free decisions on their own accord.

I also feel like you are overrating the effects of trauma on people's everyday lives.
Trauma can manifest in different forms, and can have different degrees of severity; some people may indeed become temporarily incapable of making their own life decisions, but this should be assessed by a professional psychologist or psychotherapist who specializes on such diagnoses, and not simply be assumed because of her gender.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
The Governor Of Texas Has Signed A Law That Bans Abortion As Early As 6 Weeks

"Most people don't even know if they are pregnant at six weeks... WTF." (My wife)

"The Texas law effectively prohibits any abortion after around six weeks of pregnancy, before many women are even aware that they are pregnant.

The bill, which takes effect in September, makes no exception for pregnancies that are the result of rape or incest but does include a rare provision that allows individual citizens to sue anyone they believe may have been involved in helping a pregnant individual violate the ban. The provision cannot be used against pregnant people, but reproductive rights advocates warn it can be used to target abortion providers and abortion-rights activists."

apparently, Pennsylvania is voting to fine you if you even miscarry. Beat those chips
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
The Governor Of Texas Has Signed A Law That Bans Abortion As Early As 6 Weeks

"Most people don't even know if they are pregnant at six weeks... WTF." (My wife)

"The Texas law effectively prohibits any abortion after around six weeks of pregnancy, before many women are even aware that they are pregnant.

The bill, which takes effect in September, makes no exception for pregnancies that are the result of rape or incest but does include a rare provision that allows individual citizens to sue anyone they believe may have been involved in helping a pregnant individual violate the ban. The provision cannot be used against pregnant people, but reproductive rights advocates warn it can be used to target abortion providers and abortion-rights activists."
This law is an abomination of humanity. It's also blatantly misogynistic. Texas itself will strike it down.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I would have an abortion regardless of if you or the law agreed with it, were I to get pregnant today. (Which would be pretty surprising since I use multiple birth controls).

This is kinda the point, though, right? It's your decision. Equally, my wife and I wouldn't abort (and didn't, when we had a BIIIIIG surprise recently). And that's our choice. Legislation like this takes away female body autonomy.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I would have an abortion regardless of if you or the law agreed with it, were I to get pregnant today. (Which would be pretty surprising since I use multiple birth controls).
I respect that.

But it illustrates the fact that this bill would just limit reproductive rights to those who have the resources to find an out of State doctor, to travel, take time off work, and pay for the procedure. Some can’t do that.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Apart from take the baby to full term whilst recovering from being raped, you mean...
Your view on 'anything' clearly differs from mine, given that I get pissy when forced to fill out some meaningless piece of paper for administrative purposes.

Legally, I would say let the mother choose. Morally, I disagree with abortion in itself. Letting the mother choose is fine but it doesn't change how I feel about abortion.

Personally, if I were in the mother's situation I would not make the decision (that's against my morals) but let say would be wife or if I trust say a family member to make the decision for me.

Also, rape isn't justification for abortion. Let the mother choose is fine, but I'd have a problem with mother's treating and seeing their child as some "rape baby." The decision should be made with full consciousness and if it were me I would not be of sound mind to make it. I'd rather the child to live and give it to the hospital. That's me. But not abort it cause of rape.

If the baby would die anyway, That would be hardest because I'd have no choice. My mother had an abortion cause she couldn't take care of the child. Then she had my three other children. She knew. So I wouldn't have agreed legally and morally. My brother has been messed up over this most his life. I'd assume our lives would be different if she carried it to term.

Its not just abortion. It's CP and anything that compromises the life, potentional or not. I can't change my morals over disagreements so it is what it is.

Why would my disagreement matter if legally it were admissable?

I'm not one to do what Catholics do here with picket signs and get people's businesses shut down cause it conflict with their morals.

So it's not forcing to have a disagreement. If I said legal, than yes, it would.

So...
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Legally, I would say let the mother choose. Morally, I disagree with abortion in itself. Letting the mother choose is fine but it doesn't change how I feel about abortion.
Then you're pro-choice. Thank you.

Pro-choice means letting each pregnant person follow their conscience. Sounds like your conscience wouldn't guide you to abortion for yourself, and that's fine. As long as you support the right of others to follow their consciences too, then you're pro-choice.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Then you're pro-choice. Thank you.

Pro-choice means letting each pregnant person follow their conscience. Sounds like your conscience wouldn't guide you to abortion for yourself, and that's fine. As long as you support the right of others to follow their consciences too, then you're pro-choice.

Thanks. I don't support it personally. Legally, I'm not one to make political stances to fight against it. Pro-choice legally not morally.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
If a woman is raped, the baby can still live regardless who takes care of him or her-adoption, the other father or mother, or so have you. It's not forcing the mother to do anything. Many states let the mother give the child to the hospital I think within a week or month after pregnancy. So, I don't how killing a growing child (case in point) overrides just giving the baby to those who can take care of it.

Edit. Here's more about it Birth Mother Parental Rights - Texas Adoption | Adoption Choices of Texas
Not forcing the woman to do anything?

How about forcing her to be pregnant???
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
......... If a person was raped, I'm sure she wouldn't be in her right state of mind to decide if she wanted to have the child. ........
You're sure?
How could you possibly have any idea about how a raped person feels?

And you did not answer my question which asked if you would be prepared to support taxation in order to provide full medical services, education to degree level and subsistence for all rape-childten.

Well?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You're sure?
How could you possibly have any idea about how a raped person feels?

And you did not answer my question which asked if you would be prepared to support taxation in order to provide full medical services, education to degree level and subsistence for all rape-childten.

Well?

I don't "know." However, I do feel any traumatic experience would influence someone mentally.

I probably didn't know how the question related to the topic. Yes. I would. I don't see how this relates to abortion, though. If the mother carried the baby to term, yes. I would.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
As far as abortion goes, I don't like it but think it's up to a woman to choose before viability. I also am totally in favor of real health care including for pregnant women, job training/education for women, day care and everything else that's a barrier that leads a woman to feel she has no choice but abortion.

And that's where the right draws the line. They're concern ends post uterus!
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Legally, I would say let the mother choose. Morally, I disagree with abortion in itself. Letting the mother choose is fine but it doesn't change how I feel about abortion.

I have no issue with people making their own moral judgements on this. As stated, I can't envisage my wife and I ever having aborted, short of life and death.
I simply want people to have the right to make their own choice.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I have no issue with people making their own moral judgements on this. As stated, I can't envisage my wife and I ever having aborted, short of life and death.
I simply want people to have the right to make their own choice.

It's a sad choice to make and I'm sure it's not done as lightly as perceived in this thread. My question would be why anyone all rape victims make sound decisions about abortions. We make many decisions in trauma and regret it later.

Quick lookup

Abortion may cause more trauma for rape victims - Sidney Daily News

I mean,maybe some women heal faster than others, but honestly that doesn't make sense.

As for holding the baby to term, that's a rock in a hard place. If of sound mind,I'd carry it to term but everyone's different in their morals.
 
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