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Jonah and Jesus

firedragon

Veteran Member
^ this (plus a touch of Persian influence perhaps)

I would say that this is purely hellenisation and romanisation. Because you would note that taking into account Greek and Roman civilisation, it is predominantly "one subject". Also if you note the Greek and Roman mythology, only the names are different. Also you should note that the whole of the NT is written completely in Koine Greek, and the establishment of Christianity is completely Roman including the church fathers, anti nicene creeds, nicene creeds, borrowings from Philo, arias, nicene council, athanasian creed, you name it. Everything is Roman.

Maybe Persian influence is there as in every thing in the world is influenced by something. But directly and specifically we can easily understand the Greek and Roman influence. The Christians are gonna get offended of course but the question of the thread is absolutely calling for this response. This is the answer in my honest opinion.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
From the Bible, Jesus and the 11 faithful apostles were celebrating the Jewish Passover on the night of his arrest. The Jewish Passover is Nisan 14 so we have a date, being on or near the day of full moon, inasmuch as the first day of every month (Jews had a lunar calendar) was the day of the new moon, as determined by visual observation.
The new day began at sundown so "Friday" (the day of Jesus' execution) began at sundown, Thursday night. Jesus died on Friday (about 3pm) and his body interred before sundown, because the following day was a Sabbath.
He was in his tomb for parts of three days and nights....so he was in the tomb Friday, Saturday and raised in the early hours of Sunday morning....or parts of three days and nights. The Bible specifically states that Jesus rose "on the third day".



It wasn't the third day of the week. It was the third day after his death.
Is there any other proof that Nisan 14 was on Friday other than that the next day was a Sabbath. I believe the Jews have weekly Sabbaths and also annual Sabbaths which can fall on any day of the week. Do you believe Jonah was in the fish for three days and three nights?
 

Psalm23

Well-Known Member
Yes, as long as you worship Him. Which sets strong a-priori constraints on who you really are.

Otherwise, if you are not really like that, He will not raise a finger to avoid that you fry in hell for all eternity.

A bit like the Mafia, isn't it? They accept you as you are, as long you kiss their ring and accept them as the true godfather. If not, well...

Ciao

- viole

I don’t agree with this. I believe in eternal security. Once someone is in Christ, they are in the church and of the body of Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.
 

John1.12

Free gift
The story of Yonah gives a pretty simple message: Folks sin, God is about to punish them, folks repent, God relents. It's a pretty simple and effective system.

This in mind, what's the point of Jesus as understood in Christianity?
Jesus is the only way to heaven . There is no alternative. Well ,other than hell . Put in simple terms . ( according to the bible )
 

MatthewA

Active Member
And who needs that? I am doing great without any relationship with any god. The latter being considered by me just figments of people's imagination.

And honestly, I do not miss a close relationship with anyone into slavery and genocide.

Ciao

- viole

Okay.
 

MatthewA

Active Member
Thank God for the Freedom in Christ Jesus (Galatians 5:1) though it is not to use your freedom to have your own way, but it is to simply live your life the way you desire; though do not use the freedom of your flesh for selfish gain is what I believe the bible teaches, living by the spirit. We are free from the bondage of sin that plagues our heart that is changed when forming and having a relationship with God and the Lord Jesus Christ I believe. There is freedom and no constraints ; unless you call and view love as restraining thing to do towards God, and towards others. That is something I do not not know.
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I don’t agree with this. I believe in eternal security. Once someone is in Christ, they are in the church and of the body of Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.
And if someone is not in Christ?

ciao

- viole
 

Psalm23

Well-Known Member
And if someone is not in Christ?

ciao

- viole

I believe that Jesus is the only way to God and heaven. If someone is not in Christ, God can still draw the person to Jesus. I believe ultimately it is a person’s choice whether to accept Christ or not.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I believe that Jesus is the only way to God and heaven. If someone is not in Christ, God can still draw the person to Jesus. I believe ultimately it is a person’s choice whether to accept Christ or not.

Lets say there is a person who only believes in God the father, Ha Shem, the Tetragrammaton, how ever you wish to refer to him, but rejects Jesus as God completely, is this person condemned?
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Okay. So not "millions" like you said but "half a million". Anyway, that's not relevant.

I understand what you say about Jews, OT, etc etc. I am asking you why are you bringing that up? Whats your ultimate point?

I can't even remember what the conversation was about now.
I think someone was saying that the bible was influenced by
Greek thinking. And it wasn't.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Lets say there is a person who only believes in God the father, Ha Shem, the Tetragrammaton, how ever you wish to refer to him, but rejects Jesus as God completely, is this person condemned?
If Jesus is “the way, the truth and the life”, then we can only come to God through his Son. But interestingly, we can only come to the Son by invitation from the Father. (John 6:44, 65) So not just anyone can be regarded by God as a “Christian”. It requires more than just claiming Jesus as your “Lord” and then doing whatever you like. (Matthew 7:21-23) “Doing the will of the Father” is required.....so we need to ascertain exactly what that is, because “many” are apparently kidding themselves.....and will be rejected by Jesus at the judgment as “lawbreakers”.

There are also those who believe in the Father, (Yahweh) as “the only true God” (John 17:3) and who accept Jesus as “the Christ”, but who reject the idea that he was God incarnate. Jesus was always “with God” as “the Logos” (God’s unique spokesman) and it was the Logos who became flesh, not God himself. (John 1:1)
 

MatthewA

Active Member
Lets say there is a person who only believes in God the father, Ha Shem, the Tetragrammaton, how ever you wish to refer to him, but rejects Jesus as God completely, is this person condemned?

Hello Firedragon, I would like to say to answer your question if may with what Jesus Christ says about himself. A person who rejects Jesus Christ has no access to the Father according to (John 14:6) that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through him, which is found in the bible and is an objective truth when it come to the question of :

Can I get to the Father (Christian God the Bible) without believing in Lord Jesus Christ? No, because Jesus Christ in the bible is also the Son of God, The High Priest, the mediator between God and man. So the person who rejects Jesus Christ (wouldn't have access), and the offer of salvation which in Jesus is being redeemed by the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and believing in your heart that God raised Him again on the third day, you shall be saved: Saved to the kingdom of God; in which a person who is becoming a new born-again believer in God and the Lord Jesus is now allowing God to come into their life and to work on their heart as they grow in knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is all predicated on a person and if they make the choice to believe, or not; but the only way faith come is by hearing the truth about the word of God (The Bible). (Romans 10:17)((2 Corinthians 5:17))(Hebrews 11:1 - Faith)
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Is there any other proof that Nisan 14 was on Friday other than that the next day was a Sabbath. I believe the Jews have weekly Sabbaths and also annual Sabbaths which can fall on any day of the week. Do you believe Jonah was in the fish for three days and three nights?
When Nisan 14 (Jewish calendar) was observed as Passover day, rather than always holding to Friday because that was the weekday on which Jesus died, it was an anniversary, meaning that the date was more important than the day. So for Christians observing Christ’s Memorial supper, the observance is not always on a Friday. There is no Easter. (a totally pagan adoption with a thin veneer of Christianity)

Nisan 1 is determined by when the new moon nearest the spring equinox can likely be observed at sunset in Jerusalem. Counting 14 days from that occurrence brings one to Nisan 14, which usually corresponds to the day of the full moon.

Late on that Friday afternoon, the Sabbath of Nisan 15 began at sundown. Jesus’ body was hanging on the stauros, but the two robbers alongside him were still alive. The Romans broke their legs to hasten death. Jesus body was taken down and washed and wrapped, but there is no time for the customary burial practices, so the women determine that they will return after the Sabbath to prepare Jesus’ body properly.

Friday afternoon is called Preparation because this is when people prepare meals and complete any other pressing work that cannot wait until after the Sabbath. So they prepared Jesus’ body as best they could in the time they had. They never got to finish the job....

The Sabbath that was soon to begin was not only a regular Sabbath (the seventh day of the week) but also a double, or “great,” Sabbath. It is called this because Nisan 15, which is the first day of the seven-day Festival of Unfermented Cakes (and is always a Sabbath, no matter on what day of the week it comes), that year, it fell on the same day as the regular Sabbath.
 

Psalm23

Well-Known Member
Lets say there is a person who only believes in God the father, Ha Shem, the Tetragrammaton, how ever you wish to refer to him, but rejects Jesus as God completely, is this person condemned?

In Scripture, one cannot reject the Son without also rejecting the Father
( see 1 John 2:23).

I’m not completely sure if one has to believe in Jesus as God to be saved. I know from the Scripture that belief in Jesus as the Son of God is necessary. ( see 1 John 4:15)

John 8:24 in my opinion seems to imply the need to believe in Jesus as God ; however, I still feel unsure. I think of my experience as a child and I had believed in God and Jesus. I don’t think I came to believe in Jesus as God until later on.

I believe that God can lead those whose hearts are already inclined to him to Jesus as well as those whose hearts are far from God and don't want anything to do with God.
I believe that a person can accept or reject Jesus.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
If Jesus is “the way, the truth and the life”, then we can only come to God through his Son. But interestingly, we can only come to the Son by invitation from the Father. (John 6:44, 65) So not just anyone can be regarded by God as a “Christian”. It requires more than just claiming Jesus as your “Lord” and then doing whatever you like. (Matthew 7:21-23) “Doing the will of the Father” is required.....so we need to ascertain exactly what that is, because “many” are apparently kidding themselves.....and will be rejected by Jesus at the judgment as “lawbreakers”.

There are also those who believe in the Father, (Yahweh) as “the only true God” (John 17:3) and who accept Jesus as “the Christ”, but who reject the idea that he was God incarnate. Jesus was always “with God” as “the Logos” (God’s unique spokesman) and it was the Logos who became flesh, not God himself. (John 1:1)

That doesnt answer the question Deeje.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Not bible. Christianity. :)
Not bible. Christianity. :)

It's all down to definitions.
Apostolic Christianity (AC) or what I shall call for want of a better word, Catholic Christianity (CC)

CC differed wildly from AC in that it observed holy days, a physical altar, a priesthood,
political engagement, money and the like. CC didn't just follow Greek ideas, with its
monasteries, nuns and monks for instance it followed Oriental thinking. This was not
authorized in the New Testament.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Hello Firedragon, I would like to say to answer your question if may with what Jesus Christ says about himself. A person who rejects Jesus Christ has no access to the Father according to (John 14:6) that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through him, which is found in the bible and is an objective truth when it come to the question of :

Can I get to the Father (Christian God the Bible) without believing in Lord Jesus Christ? No, because Jesus Christ in the bible is also the Son of God, The High Priest, the mediator between God and man. So the person who rejects Jesus Christ (wouldn't have access), and the offer of salvation which in Jesus is being redeemed by the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and believing in your heart that God raised Him again on the third day, you shall be saved: Saved to the kingdom of God; in which a person who is becoming a new born-again believer in God and the Lord Jesus is now allowing God to come into their life and to work on their heart as they grow in knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is all predicated on a person and if they make the choice to believe, or not; but the only way faith come is by hearing the truth about the word of God (The Bible). (Romans 10:17)((2 Corinthians 5:17))(Hebrews 11:1 - Faith)

Thus, bottomline is, if someone believes in God and worships him with out going through Jesus he is condemned.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
In Scripture, one cannot reject the Son without also rejecting the Father
( see 1 John 2:23).

I’m not completely sure if one has to believe in Jesus as God to be saved. I know from the Scripture that belief in Jesus as the Son of God is necessary. ( see 1 John 4:15)

John 8:24 in my opinion seems to imply the need to believe in Jesus as God ; however, I still feel unsure. I think of my experience as a child and I had believed in God and Jesus. I don’t think I came to believe in Jesus as God until later on.

I believe that God can lead those whose hearts are already inclined to him to Jesus as well as those whose hearts are far from God and don't want anything to do with God.
I believe that a person can accept or reject Jesus.

Thanks for confirming.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
That doesnt answer the question Deeje.
You really can't see the answer clearly in my response?

You asked..."Lets say there is a person who only believes in God the father, Ha Shem, the Tetragrammaton, how ever you wish to refer to him, but rejects Jesus as God completely, is this person condemned?"
How did my response not answer that question?

There are those who reject the notion of "Jesus as God"....because he wasn't...."divine" yes....Almighty God? NO!

Those who think Jesus somehow replaced his Father as part of some adopted notion of a pagan trinity, are breaching the first Commandment by putting another "god" in place of the Father. Are these condemned as blasphemers? I believe so....as its the first and most important Commandment.

In so many words.....NO Jesus...NO salvation....and there is only one true God....who isn't Jesus. (John 17:3)
That's it.
 
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