How Jesus Fulfills the Law and How Jesus Does Not

Faithofchristian said:

First of all..in case you didn't know..
There two groups of Jews in Israel..

One being the True Jew of Israel,..
And the other Jew is a false Jew trying to steal the true Jews of Israel birth right.

As disciple Paul written in
Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God has taken none effect, for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"

The false Jews of Israel are the ones that had The Lord Jesus Christ crucified..

In Israel there is only two tribes left in Israel.
The tribe of Israel and the tribe of Judah.
The other 10 tribes broke away from Israel and went over the Caucasus mountains and settled in what is called today..
The European countries.

As written in
James 1:1--"James are servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad greetings"

So here we find the 12 tribes of Israel.
Which 10 of the tribes of Israel broke away from Israel and were scattered abroad..

Have you any clue or idea where those
10 tribes of Israel are at in the world?
It's easy to find out where exactly those
10 tribes are at in the world..

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This would take a whole thread on its own. I think there is a fig leaf, there, for saying 'Not all Jews are false' but at the same time its a heavy charge to accuse some Jews of being false Jews. Its also a very difficult subject for you to discuss here. I don't view Jews as false or true myself, and Jesus death is thousands of years ago not something from modern times. It seems a little unfair to accuse modern Jews of killing him, and this kind of language once got a lot of Jews hurt. I think I've met enough Jewish people that I see them as people, and I've met many of their constellations. Its difficult to pin them into specific groups even when they are in groups.

Brickjectivity said:

This would take a whole thread on its own. I think there is a fig leaf, there, for saying 'Not all Jews are false' but at the same time its a heavy charge to accuse some Jews of being false Jews. Its also a very difficult subject for you to discuss here. I don't view Jews as false or true myself, and Jesus death is thousands of years ago not something from modern times. It seems a little unfair to accuse modern Jews of killing him, and this kind of language once got a lot of Jews hurt. I think I've met enough Jewish people that I see them as people, and I've met many of their constellations. Its difficult to pin them into specific groups even when they are in groups.

Click to expand...

Maybe on Judgement day you can tell the Lord Jesus Christ how wrong he is..

Even The Lord Jesus Christ came across such Jews who was trying to proclaim to be of Israel..
Even disciple Paul of the tribe of Benjamin. Said in Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"

Therefore there are Jews in Israel that are not of the true Israel.
Even The Lord Jesus Christ said in his book of Revelation 2:9--"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan"

Revelation 3:9--"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee"
It seems your having problem with what The Lord Jesus Christ reveals in his word..
Maybe you should confront The Lord Jesus Christ on Judgement day and set him straight how wrong he is and your so right.. that there is no false Jews of Israel..
But yet the Lord Jesus Christ shows emphasis two times in his book of Revelation there are false Jews of Israel..

Matthew 12:36-37--
36--"But I say unto you, that Every idle Word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
37--"For by your words you shalt be justified, and by your words you shalt be condemned"

And by what shall men be Judge by,
As written in Revelation 20:12--"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works"

Those books being opened are the bible/scriptures and the book of life and the book of remembrance that everything that a person has done in their life that on Judgement day everything will be brought back to their remembrance.

As written in the book of
Malachi 3:16--"Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name"
Therefore on Judgement day
Matthew 12:36-37--
36--"But I say unto you, that Every idle Word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
37--"For by your words you shalt be justified, and by your words you shalt be condemned"
Therefore remember that every idle word that you may speak are recorded in the Lord's book of remembrance...

Faithofchristian said:

Maybe on Judgement day you can tell the Lord Jesus Christ how wrong he is..

Click to expand...

I'm serious when I say this should be in its own thread not this thread. It a different topic for the reason that its enormous.

Faithofchristian said:

Even The Lord Jesus Christ came across such Jews who was trying to proclaim to be of Israel..
Even disciple Paul of the tribe of Benjamin. Said in Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"

Therefore there are Jews in Israel that are not of the true Israel.
Even The Lord Jesus Christ said in his book of Revelation 2:9--"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan"

Revelation 3:9--"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee"
It seems your having problem with what The Lord Jesus Christ reveals in his word..
Maybe you should confront The Lord Jesus Christ on Judgement day and set him straight how wrong he is and your so right.. that there is no false Jews of Israel..
But yet the Lord Jesus Christ shows emphasis two times in his book of Revelation there are false Jews of Israel..

Matthew 12:36-37--
36--"But I say unto you, that Every idle Word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
37--"For by your words you shalt be justified, and by your words you shalt be condemned"

And by what shall men be Judge by,
As written in Revelation 20:12--"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works"

Those books being opened are the bible/scriptures and the book of life and the book of remembrance that everything that a person has done in their life that on Judgement day everything will be brought back to their remembrance.

As written in the book of
Malachi 3:16--"Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name"
Therefore on Judgement day
Matthew 12:36-37--
36--"But I say unto you, that Every idle Word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
37--"For by your words you shalt be justified, and by your words you shalt be condemned"
Therefore remember that every idle word that you may speak are recorded in the Lord's book of remembrance...

Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying I think.

Paul and Peter in Acts both say that their generation of Jews is corrupt, but they don't say this applies to future generations. (Acts 2:40) According to something written in Deuteronomy Jews rebel in cycles and then repent, so there's a good generation then a bad one and so on in some unpredictable cadence. The LORD is like an eagle teaching its chicks to fly, so they fall until they fly. (Deut 32:11, Deut 32:35-36) There is also the proverb that says "for though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes." (Pro 24:16) There is a very, extremely important idea that the Jews undergo sufferings in order to purify them, as silver is refined in the old way; and this suffering happens with repetition. "This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold..." (Zech 13:9) They are going to have some success then fail until they succeed. That is the strength of the promise they have, and the Torah is part of that. It can't be separated from them as far as I know.

Peter and Paul in Acts say nothing about modern Jews, because they specify its their generation that is corrupt. Also modern Jews appear to be at peace with Christians, and Jesus says to his disciples "Whoever is not against us is for us." (Mark 9:40)

Even so they can't kill him, because he's not here. I don't understand why you'd say that they have killed him. It must be a figure of speech.

Faithofchristian said:

Therefore remember that every idle word that you may speak are recorded in the Lord's book of remembrance...

Click to expand...

I am suspicious that you are saying this to make me feel more important than I am. Maybe in ten minutes you'll have me believing I can fly out of windows. The world is already on fire, so I can't set it alight. Its like you're complaining about me flicking a bic after a nuclear bomb has gone off. As if my sneeze is annoying when we're under a hail of bullets. Are you aware of how confused people are? I am. These are confusing times.

Brickjectivity said:

There is an explanation that can help with some of the seeming ambiguity. A Christian is part of a new creation, and in faith that creation has been spoken into existence from the Christian's perspective but not from everyone's perspective. For example despite Christ's work being in faith finished now, there is a scripture which says there is a time in the future in which everything will be finished. Is it finished now or in the future? It is finished now to those who are privileged to see it, however they must continue to live in a world where it is not finished.

Not all of the ambiguity is so easy to explain away, but the burden of explanation is not only on me. While you mention "Christ is the end of the law," Paul says that there is much benefit to circumcision -- which is keeping the law! Paul says yes. Paul says no. Which is it? The same Paul attributed with saying Christ is the end of the law says that there is much benefit to circumcision and that the Jews are entrusted with the oracles of God -- as opposed to non-Jews. The implication is that things are not quite so simple. Also Paul continues to obey the law according to Acts. So the ambiguity that you mention is difficult. In Romans 7 he says divorce from the law. Overall he says this, but sometimes he says that. Christians also are charged with keeping parts of the law but not other parts, so how is it the end of the law now, today? Also it may not be the end of the Mosaic law but the end of the gentile laws, particularly since the LORD promises that the Jewish Torah is eternal. It would seem ironic to me if that promise could be erased. The covenant of Noah, however, has an expiration given in Genesis 8:22 which says as long as the earth endures the covenant with Noah does, too; but Christians believe they are in a new creation, implying it may be that law of Noah that Paul believes is done away with but not the Mosaic law.

Click to expand...

Hi,
As you said there are ambiguities and things that are hard to understand.
However the fact that the Mosaic Law is abolished is not one of them.
Eph 2:15 "...He (Christ) abolished the law..."

Perhaps you are referring to text such as Rom 13:9. Paul explains what being freed from the letter of the Law mean.
It does not mean that Christians can murder, steal and covet, but rather that these issues are covered in the new Law that requires Christian to "love their neighbor as themselves".
It does not follow that because it is wrong to steal or murder a person is "under the Mosaic Law" but rather means being under a principle of conduct.

1Tim 1:9 "...the law is made, not for a righteous man, but for person lawless...murderers, fornicators, men who lie with males, kidnappers, liars...and whatever other things is in opposition to healthful teaching".

Since a "true Christian would not do any of these things, he/she does not need a written law to tell him not to. Nonetheless the Mosaic Law's principles still apply.

Brickjectivity said:

I'm serious when I say this should be in its own thread not this thread. It a different topic for the reason that its enormous.


I understand what you're saying I think.

Paul and Peter in Acts both say that their generation of Jews is corrupt, but they don't say this applies to future generations. (Acts 2:40) According to something written in Deuteronomy Jews rebel in cycles and then repent, so there's a good generation then a bad one and so on in some unpredictable cadence. The LORD is like an eagle teaching its chicks to fly, so they fall until they fly. (Deut 32:11, Deut 32:35-36) There is also the proverb that says "for though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when calamity strikes." (Pro 24:16) There is a very, extremely important idea that the Jews undergo sufferings in order to purify them, as silver is refined in the old way; and this suffering happens with repetition. "This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold..." (Zech 13:9) They are going to have some success then fail until they succeed. That is the strength of the promise they have, and the Torah is part of that. It can't be separated from them as far as I know.

Peter and Paul in Acts say nothing about modern Jews, because they specify its their generation that is corrupt. Also modern Jews appear to be at peace with Christians, and Jesus says to his disciples "Whoever is not against us is for us." (Mark 9:40)

Even so they can't kill him, because he's not here. I don't understand why you'd say that they have killed him. It must be a figure of speech.


I am suspicious that you are saying this to make me feel more important than I am. Maybe in ten minutes you'll have me believing I can fly out of windows. The world is already on fire, so I can't set it alight. Its like you're complaining about me flicking a bic after a nuclear bomb has gone off. As if my sneeze is annoying when we're under a hail of bullets. Are you aware of how confused people are? I am. These are confusing times.

Click to expand...

The Lord Jesus Christ himself came across such Jews that were saying that they were of seed of Abraham and were not..
These sect of Jews were cross breed and not fully blooded Jew's..

In the book of
John 8:37-44,
here you will find Jesus Christ speaking to these that call themselves Jews and not a full blooded Jew.

In Verses 37-38,
We find The Lord Jesus Christ speaking, saying, ( I know that you are Abraham's seed, but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you, I speak that which I have seen with my Father, and you do that with you have seen with your father)
Okay so who's the father of these sect of Jews??
In Verse 39, here we find these sect of Jews saying to Jesus Christ, ( They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father, Jesus said unto them, if you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham)
What is being said here by Jesus Christ, they are not the children of Abraham's..

Verses 40-41,
( But now you seek to kill me, a man that has told you the truth, which I have heard of God, this did not Abraham...You do the deeds of your father, then said they to him, we be not born of fornification, we have one father, even God)

The Greek translation for
Fornification.is having Incest with someone who's a close relative...like a sister or brother ect----?

Verses 42-43,
( Jesus said unto them, if God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself, but he sent me,. Why do you not understand my speech, even because you cannot hear my word)

Here in Verse 44, we find who their father really is and it's not Abraham at all..
Verse 44, ( You are of your father, the devil, and the lust of your father you will do,
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him, when he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it)
So who exactly was the murderer from the beginning, Why naturally that would be Cain that killed his brother Able.

Therefore these sect of Jews are the children of Cain's and the father of Cains is the devil, Satan.
As written in 1 John 3:12--"Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother, and wherefore slew he him, because his own Works were evil, and his brothers righteous"
Another name for Satan is (Wicked One)

Therefore these sect of Jews being
the sons of Cain's, which became to be known as Kenites throughout the
Bible/Scriptures. Unto which Satan is their real father..
Even The Lord Jesus Christ pointed these sect of Jews out in his book of
Revelation 2:9--"I know your works, and tribulation, and property, (; but you are rich) and I know the blasphemy free of them would say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan"

This meaning they are of the seed of Satan.....Unto which are the sons of Cain's, which have come to be known as the Kenites throughout the
Bible/Scriptures.

Revelation 3:9--"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, would say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you"

This also being the sect of Jews who are the seed of Satan's. Unto which are the sons of Cain's, which have come to be known as the Kenites throughout the
Bible/Scriptures.

Notice that many times that the Lord Jesus Christ will say..He that has an ear, Let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches...
What this means is...having Spiritual discernment to understand what the Spirit of God is saying..
As written in
1 Corinthians 2:14--"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned"

Spiritual discernment only comes by God...to those who honestly are seeking the Truth of the Word of God..

There are those people who follows man's teachings and doctrines in the churches..
And there are those who strictly only follows The Lord Jesus Christ teachings and doctrines..

Neuropteron said:

Hi,
As you said there are ambiguities and things that are hard to understand.
However the fact that the Mosaic Law is abolished is not one of them.
Eph 2:15 "...He (Christ) abolished the law..."

Click to expand...

The greater text is "..He abolished the law in his flesh..." which adds "In his flesh." That is the atonement for the non-Jew being mentioned. Its significant to me that he adds "In his flesh." The death of Jesus is his perfection. Based on this accomplishment of his, the death of a Christian dying to themselves to be alive only in Christ is similar. The Christian offers himself a living sacrifice. Does this mean the law is abolished for Jews? I doubt that would even cross the mind of Paul or anyone. For me Galatians is the most challenging of Paul's arguments, because its possible that he claims abolishment of the law even for Jews. But he can't do that in a bible-based church, because that puts him at odds with all of scripture. If he does then he's going against himself, against the bulk of scripture and against things Jesus says. It is significant to me here in Ephesians that he says "In his flesh" which delineates since under this the Christian is required to be more extreme than the Jew. Where Jews are to keep the Torah, the disciples of Jesus must go further. The Christian is to do more, to die to themselves.

Neuropteron said:

Perhaps you are referring to text such as Rom 13:9. Paul explains what being freed from the letter of the Law mean.
It does not mean that Christians can murder, steal and covet, but rather that these issues are covered in the new Law that requires Christian to "love their neighbor as themselves".
It does not follow that because it is wrong to steal or murder a person is "under the Mosaic Law" but rather means being under a principle of conduct.

1Tim 1:9 "...the law is made, not for a righteous man, but for person lawless...murderers, fornicators, men who lie with males, kidnappers, liars...and whatever other things is in opposition to healthful teaching".

Since a "true Christian would not do any of these things, he/she does not need a written law to tell him not to. Nonetheless the Mosaic Law's principles still apply.

Click to expand...

That is much less contentious. No, a Christian must not do these things; but the Christian must be a living sacrifice, being more righteous than Jews. Paul says the Christian ought to make Jews jealous (Romans 11:11) which implies more personal sacrifice not less. More is required than a circumcised heart, more effort. The Jewish person is by comparison like a civilian while the Christian must be like a soldier, uninterested in civilian matters. How does this square with Jesus saying "My yoke is easy?" Not sure about that one, but you must be aware of how many Christians live like monks and eating very little, skipping entertainments and delights, even sex. I think this is because they are attempting to live as Paul describes. Whereas the Jewish person can have entertainments, smoking, dancing and other civilian things. How backslidden, then, we probably all are who live lives of luxury.

Faithofchristian said:

The Lord Jesus Christ himself came across such Jews that were saying that they were of seed of Abraham and were not..
These sect of Jews were cross breed and not fully blooded Jew's..

Click to expand...

We can stop right there. That is the most backward statement. Jews don't believe in genetic purity at all. There is no 'Fully blooded' Jew. Its not even a thing. That is something the nations are concerned with and interested in: breeding. Not Jews and not their scripture.

They do believe that a Jewish child comes from a Jewish home, and they have laws about inheritance. When it comes to inheritance, a non Jewish child can inherit property except in the ancient land of Israel; but if they aren't from a Jewish home they aren't Jewish. Fathers are about inheritance, thus their lines are tracked; but this does not affect ethnicity. Mothers are about Jewishness and are the basis of Jewish ethnicity, but their blood lines are not tracked. A non Jew may inherit from a Jewish father, and a Jewish child may have a non-Jewish father. It does happen. A woman can be adopted to become a Jew. So can a man. Their blood lines do not matter.

This is how it has always been.

So then why are the priests always Levites? Following the laws as I read them in Leviticus it is because Levites aren't under inheritance law permitted to own land, so their bloodlines are tracked for that purpose, to prevent them from breaking this law. However if a man becomes a servant of a Levite and joins his family then he also may not inherit. His children become Levites, blood mattering not at all. Why? Because he has married a Jew given to him by the Levite father, and whether she be an adopted daughter or not she is a Jew. Therefore the Levites also are not of any blood linneage. The geneologies track who may or may not own land.

But what of the Levite priests? They may only marry virgins who are Levites, however they may have grandparents that were not Levites. There is no blood linneage.

There is no Jewish blood linneage, and there never was. How is that for a derail?

Brickjectivity said:

We can stop right there. That is the most backward statement. Jews don't believe in genetic purity at all. There is no 'Fully blooded' Jew. Its not even a thing. That is something the nations are concerned with and interested in: breeding. Not Jews and not their scripture.

They do believe that a Jewish child comes from a Jewish home, and they have laws about inheritance. When it comes to inheritance, a non Jewish child can inherit property except in the ancient land of Israel; but if they aren't from a Jewish home they aren't Jewish. Fathers are about inheritance, thus their lines are tracked; but this does not affect ethnicity. Mothers are about Jewishness and are the basis of Jewish ethnicity, but their blood lines are not tracked. A non Jew may inherit from a Jewish father, and a Jewish child may have a non-Jewish father. It does happen. A woman can be adopted to become a Jew. So can a man. Their blood lines do not matter.

This is how it has always been.

So then why are the priests always Levites? Following the laws as I read them in Leviticus it is because Levites aren't under inheritance law permitted to own land, so their bloodlines are tracked for that purpose, to prevent them from breaking this law. However if a man becomes a servant of a Levite and joins his family then he also may not inherit. His children become Levites, blood mattering not at all. Why? Because he has married a Jew given to him by the Levite father, and whether she be an adopted daughter or not she is a Jew. Therefore the Levites also are not of any blood linneage. The geneologies track who may or may not own land.

But what of the Levite priests? They may only marry virgins who are Levites, however they may have grandparents that were not Levites. There is no blood linneage.

There is no Jewish blood linneage, and there never was. How is that for a derail?

Click to expand...

So you say there's no fully lineage of Jews.
That's where your wrong at..
As The Lord Jesus Christ to be born had to come from a Jew who was a full blooded Jew.
From Abraham to Isaac to Jacob to king David to Mary the great granddaughter of King David to the birth of Jesus Christ...
Matthew 1:1-18,
1--"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham"

In John 4:5--"Then comes he ( Jesus)
To a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph"

Verse 6--"Now Jacobs well was there, Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sad himself on the well, and there was about the 6-hour"
Verse 12--"Are are you greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drink there of himself and his children, and his cattle"
The Samaritan woman was not a full blooded Jew..but a half breed.
Part Jew and part Egyptian.
And how do we know this..
Because in Genesis 37, We find Joseph the son of Jacob and the other sons of Jacob took Joseph and sold sold him to the ishmaelites and ishmaelites brought Joseph into Egypt.
Which later Joseph Married an Egyptian woman named As-e-nath, which gave birth to two sons and Joseph called their names Manasseh, Ephraim,
Genesis 41:50-52.
Unto to which these two sons of Joseph were not full-blooded Jews of Israel.
But half breeds being part Jew and part Egyptian.
Therefore the Samaritan woman at the well with Jesus was part Jew and part Egyptian.
Because her father was Joseph and her grandfather was Jacob being Jews of Israel and her mother As-e-nath being Egyptian. Thereby making the woman a Samaritan, which is part Jew and part Egyptian.
Therefore not all Jews are full blooded Jew of Israel... But half breeds Jews of Israel..which are called Samaritans..
Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God has taken none effect, For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"
As there are two groups of Jews in Israel.
One being the true seed of Abraham and the other being the seed of the Egyptian woman wife of Joseph...the son of Jacob..

Faithofchristian said:

So you say there's no fully lineage of Jews.

Click to expand...

I'm not blowing smoke. The Psalms celebrate it. [Psa 19:7 NKJV] 7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple;

I have attempted to explain how, in the Jewish laws, adoptions are full and complete. Genetics do not matter. Its much like in the USA when a person becomes a citizen. They no longer need a green card and are full citizens, and any children they have are citizens. It works like that. There is no Jewish gene, and there never was. This is foundational, very important. When you are adopted you leave behind and wash away all other connections to join your new family the Jews, and you are fully Jewish, not a half breed. This is conversion.

Faithofchristian said:

As The Lord Jesus Christ to be born had to come from a Jew who was a full blooded Jew.
From Abraham to Isaac to Jacob to king David to Mary the great granddaughter of King David to the birth of Jesus Christ...
Matthew 1:1-18,
1--"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham"

Click to expand...

Genealogies in scripture track inheritance, not blood. If you scrutinize the genealogies I think you will find adoptions and also name changes. This impacts the church. If we are joint heirs with Christ then we are fully siblings of Jesus, not half siblings. His father becomes our father. We receive something called the spirit of adoption mentioned in three of Paul's letters. This is the same as the Holy Spirit, and this spirit of adoption is what makes Ruth, Jewish.

A famous and fully Jewish convert in scripture is Ruth the Moabite. Notice that Ruth is called Naomi's daughter. She is Naomi's daugher in truth, having received the spirit from Naomi, not a bloodtype. What matters is not her blood but the way she raises her children. She has committed that Naomi's people will be her people. She will teach the children as Naomi would passing along the same spirit.

The idea of blood inheritance is foreign to Judaism.

Brickjectivity said:

I'm not blowing smoke. The Psalms celebrate it. [Psa 19:7 NKJV] 7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple;

I have attempted to explain how, in the Jewish laws, adoptions are full and complete. Genetics do not matter. Its much like in the USA when a person becomes a citizen. They no longer need a green card and are full citizens, and any children they have are citizens. It works like that. There is no Jewish gene, and there never was. This is foundational, very important. When you are adopted you leave behind and wash away all other connections to join your new family the Jews, and you are fully Jewish, not a half breed. This is conversion.


Genealogies in scripture track inheritance, not blood. If you scrutinize the genealogies I think you will find adoptions and also name changes. This impacts the church. If we are joint heirs with Christ then we are fully siblings of Jesus, not half siblings. His father becomes our father. We receive something called the spirit of adoption mentioned in three of Paul's letters. This is the same as the Holy Spirit, and this spirit of adoption is what makes Ruth, Jewish.

A famous and fully Jewish convert in scripture is Ruth the Moabite. Notice that Ruth is called Naomi's daughter. She is Naomi's daugher in truth, having received the spirit from Naomi, not a bloodtype. What matters is not her blood but the way she raises her children. She has committed that Naomi's people will be her people. She will teach the children as Naomi would passing along the same spirit.

The idea of blood inheritance is foreign to Judaism.

Click to expand...

Nope not at all it's more like someone who's adopted into a family.
That's not their biological family.
They're just adopted in..

The same with Jacob son Joseph.
Joseph's wife was Egyptian, making Joseph sons not a full blooded Jew of Israel.
Unto which the Samaritans are not full blooded Jew of Israel.
This is why the Samaritan woman being at the well with Jesus Christ said to him
John 4:9--"Then said the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that you, being a Jew, asks drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria, For the Jews have no dealings with a Samaritans"

That s because the Samaritans are half breeds, because of Joseph being a Jew of Israel and Joseph wife being a Egyptian.

Which the Samaritans are The offspring of Joseph and Joseph's wife.
Jew of Israel and Egyptian.

If you notice back in John 4:5--"Then comes he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph"

Seeing that Joseph sons were part Egyptian and part Jew..the parcel of ground was given to Joseph and then to his son's which are called Samaritans..being half breeds.

Therefore as Disciple Paul written in
Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God has taken none effect, For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"

Therefore because of Joseph sons being part Jew and part Egyptian.
Were not all Israel...but half breeds part Jew and part Egyptian. Samaritans..

Faithofchristian said:

Nope not at all it's more like someone who's adopted into a family.
That's not their biological family.
They're just adopted in..

The same with Jacob son Joseph.
Joseph's wife was Egyptian, making Joseph sons not a full blooded Jew of Israel.
Unto which the Samaritans are not full blooded Jew of Israel.
This is why the Samaritan woman being at the well with Jesus Christ said to him
John 4:9--"Then said the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that you, being a Jew, asks drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria, For the Jews have no dealings with a Samaritans"

That s because the Samaritans are half breeds, because of Joseph being a Jew of Israel and Joseph wife being a Egyptian.

Which the Samaritans are The offspring of Joseph and Joseph's wife.
Jew of Israel and Egyptian.

Click to expand...

I've already said why I think that is creative and a pet theory.

Brickjectivity said:

The greater text is "..He abolished the law in his flesh..." which adds "In his flesh." That is the atonement for the non-Jew being mentioned. Its significant to me that he adds "In his flesh." The death of Jesus is his perfection. Based on this accomplishment of his, the death of a Christian dying to themselves to be alive only in Christ is similar. The Christian offers himself a living sacrifice. Does this mean the law is abolished for Jews? I doubt that would even cross the mind of Paul or anyone. For me Galatians is the most challenging of Paul's arguments, because its possible that he claims abolishment of the law even for Jews. But he can't do that in a bible-based church, because that puts him at odds with all of scripture. If he does then he's going against himself, against the bulk of scripture and against things Jesus says. It is significant to me here in Ephesians that he says "In his flesh" which delineates since under this the Christian is required to be more extreme than the Jew. Where Jews are to keep the Torah, the disciples of Jesus must go further. The Christian is to do more, to die to themselves.

That is much less contentious. No, a Christian must not do these things; but the Christian must be a living sacrifice, being more righteous than Jews. Paul says the Christian ought to make Jews jealous (Romans 11:11) which implies more personal sacrifice not less. More is required than a circumcised heart, more effort. The Jewish person is by comparison like a civilian while the Christian must be like a soldier, uninterested in civilian matters. How does this square with Jesus saying "My yoke is easy?" Not sure about that one, but you must be aware of how many Christians live like monks and eating very little, skipping entertainments and delights, even sex. I think this is because they are attempting to live as Paul describes. Whereas the Jewish person can have entertainments, smoking, dancing and other civilian things. How backslidden, then, we probably all are who live lives of luxury.

[Rom 12:1 NIV] 1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.
[2Ti 2:3-5 NIV] 3 Join with me in suffering, like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer. 5 Similarly, anyone who competes as an athlete does not receive the victor's crown except by competing according to the rules.​

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Hi,

Brickjectivity:The greater text is "..He abolished the law in his flesh..." which adds "In his flesh." That is the atonement for the non-Jew being mentioned.
***
Yes, this statement can lead to confusion.
This has to do with translation issues.

What helps is considering different translation and using the overall context to arrive at a correct meaning.

For instance the KI, which is a word for word translation states:
"the enmity in the flesh of him, the Law of the commandments having made ineffective ..."
Since Coine Greek and most other language have a completely different structure the translator has to re-arrange the words to correspond to the meaning he decided upon, which should be based upon the context (but not always is).

The understanding that the Law of Moses was in Jesus is not rational or scriptural. The fact that this Law is referred to as an enemy however point to the fact that it was a wall (vs 14) stopping those adhering to it attain to eternal life. It was the situation of life unobtainable by Law that was the enemy [in Jesus's flesh], not the Law itself.

Thus other translation read:
"by means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments..."
Heb 10":1 " For since the Law is a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of it, it can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make those who approach perfect.

Instead of Paul statement contradicting the scriptures it is a fulfillment of bible prophesy.
Ps40"6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, ...I have come to do your will...(Christ).

Jer:2 "Look!The days are coming, declares Jehovah, when I will make with the house of Israel a new covenant 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made [with Moses]."

Brickjectivity said:

I've already said why I think that is creative and a pet theory.

Click to expand...

Brickjectivity said:

I've already said why I think that is creative and a pet theory.

Click to expand...

That s because the Samaritans are half breeds, because of Joseph being a Jew of Israel and Joseph wife being a Egyptian.

Which the Samaritans are The offspring of Joseph and Joseph's wife.
Jew of Israel and Egyptian.

If you notice back in John 4:5--"Then comes he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph"

Seeing that Joseph sons were part Egyptian and part Jew..the parcel of ground was given to Joseph and then to his son's which are called Samaritans..being half breeds.

Therefore as Disciple Paul written in
Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God has taken none effect, For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"

Therefore because of Joseph sons being part Jew and part Egyptian.
Were not all Israel...but half breeds part Jew and part Egyptian. Samaritans..

I believe God is the law and not that the law is God.

Teritos said:

Fulfill means done. Jesus has done everything that the law requires. And so he fulfilled the law. The law is like a contract with conditions and when you have fulfilled it you are released from it.
No one has to circumcise their children anymore. Circumcision is the signature, whoever circumcises himself because he thinks it is God's commandment, binds himself to the law and has to fulfill the law.
He lost the grace of Jesus.

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I believe Paul is speaking more about belief in the law as a whole when he says that. I certainly believe in keeping the ten commandments without having to believe I have to sacrifice sheep.

Faithofchristian said:

Nope not at all it's more like someone who's adopted into a family.
That's not their biological family.
They're just adopted in..

Click to expand...

What I'm hearing from you and correct me if I'm wrong is that you have an opinion based upon a story about Jesus and the Samaritans, and you infer that there is an objection to Samaritan genetics.

That theory says the laws of inheritance do not say in Leviticus that anyone may be adopted, converted and marry into the Jewish lineage despite what the text of Leviticus says and which I am basing my opinion on. You're implying to me that what Leviticus says to me is incorrect, that blood is so important to a Jew that they'd actually avoid each other because of blood. It is a heavy charge to make, and I feel I have explained that the laws debunk it. There are other explanations for the problems with the Samaritans. Blood cannot be one of them, nor breeding. The laws don't allow this. Orphans are what matter. Adoption is what matters. This is what the laws say, and each child is guaranteed some sort of inheritance if the father is known. If the father is not known then a child may have no inheritance at all and will probably have to rely upon some help from the temple...or from an adopted father.

Its interesting that there is some kind of problem between the Samaritans and these people, but the laws still invalidate any special blood lines. If a single Samaritan did ask to convert I bet that they'd be converted easily and married in ten seconds.

Faithofchristian said:

If you notice back in John 4:5--"Then comes he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph"

Click to expand...

I will remember that and if it rings a bell in the future I'll give it further consideration.

Faithofchristian said:

Therefore as Disciple Paul written in
Romans 9:6--"Not as though the word of God has taken none effect, For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"

Click to expand...

This could relate to the heart. There is a command in Deuteronomy to circumcise the heart, but this is not physical but is basically saying that there is something more than the physical to the laws, that they must be internalized and mean something more than hand motions.

Neuropteron said:

The understanding that the Law of Moses was in Jesus is not rational or scriptural.

Click to expand...

I wish to clarify that is not what I think about it.

Neuropteron said:

Hi,

Brickjectivity:The greater text is "..He abolished the law in his flesh..." which adds "In his flesh." That is the atonement for the non-Jew being mentioned.
***
Yes, this statement can lead to confusion.
This has to do with translation issues.

What helps is considering different translation and using the overall context to arrive at a correct meaning.

For instance the KI, which is a word for word translation states:
"the enmity in the flesh of him, the Law of the commandments having made ineffective ..."
Since Coine Greek and most other language have a completely different structure the translator has to re-arrange the words to correspond to the meaning he decided upon, which should be based upon the context (but not always is).

The understanding that the Law of Moses was in Jesus is not rational or scriptural. The fact that this Law is referred to as an enemy however point to the fact that it was a wall (vs 14) stopping those adhering to it attain to eternal life. It was the situation of life unobtainable by Law that was the enemy [in Jesus's flesh], not the Law itself.

Click to expand...

To gain perspective I think its good to example another of Paul's letters: Romans. He makes this pivotal comment: "But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in my every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead."
In my opinion he's using imagery from the Garden of Eden where Adam eats from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Paul's opinion seems to be, here, that there is a conflict between the clay and the spirit breathed into that clay, a conflict which the law reveals to the person. The Law is a lamp which shines into the dark world of Paul internals exposing some evil in there. Now Paul knows good from evil, but this causes his flesh to desire evil whereas before the evil slept in darkness. Now his flesh and spirit must war against each other. This is what I understand his comments to be about both here an also in Ephesians 2:15 (the verse you bring up originally).

Neuropteron said:

Instead of Paul statement contradicting the scriptures it is a fulfillment of bible prophesy.
Ps40"6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, ...I have come to do your will...(Christ).

Click to expand...

That is unfortunately a contested translation. The translators in most editions say so. I can't rely on it by itself, and I don't think its needed either to explain Ephesians 2 and Romans 7.

We know that the LORD doesn't desire sacrifice, that the sacrifice is for a purpose. The Psalm is merely celebrating this among other good things. It also says lots of good things the LORD has done for every Jew. "He lifted me out of the slimy pit!" These are things Christians also sing, too; because Christians believe that Christ has opened the same benefits...but there are differences.

Neuropteron said:

Jer:2 "Look!The days are coming, declares Jehovah, when I will make with the house of Israel a new covenant 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made [with Moses]."

Click to expand...

It is a renewed covenant technically speaking, because in Deuteronomy Moses tells the Jews that they will fail and break the covenant repeatedly but that the LORD will always bring them back at least some of them. The prophets Jeremiah Zechariah and Ezekiel envision a much closer relationship for the Jews...thus impacting the world and not only themselves. This follows from the great plan, the plan from Moses in the book Exodus that they will be an entire nation of kings and priests but not kings of horses and men and of armies. I gather that the plan, the eternal plan, is that they'll lead in righteousness which seems to be what they are attempting. Christians also are attempting this in our own way.

Christians also embrace that plan for ourselves, and we consider that its a hidden mystery (not plainly expressed in scripture) that Christians will also be a nation of kings and priests. What we are discussing is whether this implies the end of the practice of the law for Jews. I still don't see how that can be the case, because the promises are ironclad. We'd have to unwrite them.

Brickjectivity said:

What I'm hearing from you and correct me if I'm wrong is that you have an opinion based upon a story about Jesus and the Samaritans, and you infer that there is an objection to Samaritan genetics.

That theory says the laws of inheritance do not say in Leviticus that anyone may be adopted, converted and marry into the Jewish lineage despite what the text of Leviticus says and which I am basing my opinion on. You're implying to me that what Leviticus says to me is incorrect, that blood is so important to a Jew that they'd actually avoid each other because of blood. It is a heavy charge to make, and I feel I have explained that the laws debunk it. There are other explanations for the problems with the Samaritans. Blood cannot be one of them, nor breeding. The laws don't allow this. Orphans are what matter. Adoption is what matters. This is what the laws say, and each child is guaranteed some sort of inheritance if the father is known. If the father is not known then a child may have no inheritance at all and will probably have to rely upon some help from the temple...or from an adopted father.

Its interesting that there is some kind of problem between the Samaritans and these people, but the laws still invalidate any special blood lines. If a single Samaritan did ask to convert I bet that they'd be converted easily and married in ten seconds.

I will remember that and if it rings a bell in the future I'll give it further consideration.

This could relate to the heart. There is a command in Deuteronomy to circumcise the heart, but this is not physical but is basically saying that there is something more than the physical to the laws, that they must be internalized and mean something more than hand motions.

[Deu 10:16 NIV] 16 Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer.
[1Sa 16:7 NIV] 7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."​

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Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
And Jacobs son Joseph was way before the book of Leviticus was written..
Why are you bringing up the book of Leviticus when the book of Leviticus was not even written at the time of Jacob and
Jacobs son Joseph Married
As-e-nath the Egyptian and had two sons by her and their names were
Manasseh and Ephraim.
Genesis 41:50-52.

Faithofchristian said:

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
And Jacobs son Joseph was way before the book of Leviticus was written..
Why are you bringing up the book of Leviticus when the book of Leviticus was not even written at the time of Jacob and
Jacobs son Joseph Married
As-e-nath the Egyptian and had two sons by her and their names were
Manasseh and Ephraim.
Genesis 41:50-52.

Click to expand...

Jews follow the laws in Leviticus, so Jews do not object to particular bloodlines such as the Samaritan bloodline. That is why I bring it up. If there are Jews who don't like Samaritans it has nothing to do with bloodlines. I bring up Leviticus to point this out.

Brickjectivity said:

Jews follow the laws in Leviticus, so Jews do not object to particular bloodlines such as the Samaritan bloodline. That is why I bring it up. If there are Jews who don't like Samaritans it has nothing to do with bloodlines. I bring up Leviticus to point this out.

Click to expand...

Well if Jews do not object to particular bloodlines..
As you say..
Then the Samaritan woman must have lied telling Jesus Christ that the Jews have no.dealing with the Samaritans..

There's a reason why the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
It's quite obvious when the Samaritan woman said to Jesus Christ our father Jacob which gave us the well..
And it shows plainly that the Samaritan woman is not a full blooded Jew.
the Samaritans father being Joseph the son of Jacob..
Which Joseph wife is a Egyptian and having two sons by the Egyptian woman.

Therefore making the Samaritans part Jew and part Egyptian..
Other than that what other reason would the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans..
So either your right and the Samaritan woman and The Lord Jesus Christ stands to be corrected..
So who do you think will right ????
Good luck on Judgement day trying to explain that to The Lord Jesus Christ at his Judgement seat..
Matthew 12:36-37--
36--"But I say unto you, that Every idle Word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
37--"For by your words you shalt be justified, and by your words you shalt be condemned"
And by what shall men be Judge by,
As written in Revelation 20:12--"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works"
Those books being opened are the bible/scriptures and the book of life and the book of remembrance that everything that a person has done in their life that on Judgement day everything will be brought back to their remembrance.

As written in the book of
Malachi 3:16--"Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name"
Therefore on Judgement day
Matthew 12:36-37--
36--"But I say unto you, that Every idle Word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
37--"For by your words you shalt be justified, and by your words you shalt be condemned"
Therefore remember that every idle word that you may speak are recorded in the Lord's book of remembrance...