Elijah the Whirlwind and Second Coming

From the tanach we are told that elijah will be sent before the day of the lord.


Will Elijah return in a whirlwind as he went?


or will he reincarnate?


Malachi 3:23


malachi 4:5

Fool said:

From the tanach we are told that elijah will be sent before the day of the lord.


Will Elijah return in a whirlwind as he went?


or will he reincarnate?


Malachi 3:23


malachi 4:5

Click to expand...

That Elijah will return is meant spiritually. Elijah himself is dead. But John the Baptist represented Elijah, both had the same style of clothing.

Teritos said:

That Elijah will return is meant spiritually. Elijah himself is dead. But John the Baptist represented Elijah, both had the same style of clothing.

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reincarnation is the return of a spirit into carnal form


reincarnation (n.)
1829, "fact of repeated incarnation," from re- "back, again" + incarnation. Meaning "a new embodiment" is from 1854.


the spirit returns to god; when it releases the body


ecclesiastes 12:7

Fool said:

reincarnation is the return of a spirit into carnal form


reincarnation (n.)
1829, "fact of repeated incarnation," from re- "back, again" + incarnation. Meaning "a new embodiment" is from 1854.

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The reincarnation is not biblical.

Fool said:

the spirit returns to god; when it releases the body


ecclesiastes 12:7

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The spirit is the power of God that keeps all living beings alive. It is in our nose and blood and disappears when we die.

Fool said:

...Will Elijah return in a whirlwind as he went?
or will he reincarnate?
...

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I believe he already came in spirit, as told here:

He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, 'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,' and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
Luke 1:17

Fool said:

From the tanach we are told that elijah will be sent before the day of the lord.

Click to expand...

“Elijah” already came in the person of John the Baptist, who prepared repentant Jews for their awaited Messiah. He baptized them so that they were ready to accept the teachings of Jesus, who exposed the religious leaders of the day as true sons of their forefathers who murdered the prophets sent to correct them.

Matthew 3:7-10....said of John B....
“When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

Jesus also spoke of those “vipers” as the ones who silenced the prophets of old. (Matthew 23:33, 34, 37)

Will Elijah return in a whirlwind as he went?

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Why would he? The real Elijah was merely relocated in a whirlwind, after appointing Elisha as his successor......he wrote a letter to the King of Judah later, so he did not die and go to heaven as many assume. (2 Kings 2:11; 2 Chronicles 21:12-15)

or will he reincarnate?

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There is no reincarnation in the Bible....there is no immortal soul either.....there is only resurrection, which is a return to life, not a continuation of it.

Malachi 3:23

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I think you mean Malachi 3:1....?
John the Baptist fulfilled that role....

Matthew 11:12-14....
“From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. 13 For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is ‘E·liʹjah who is to come.’”

Fool said:

reincarnation is the return of a spirit into carnal form

reincarnation (n.)
1829, "fact of repeated incarnation," from re- "back, again" + incarnation. Meaning "a new embodiment" is from 1854.

the spirit returns to god; when it releases the body

ecclesiastes 12:7

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No sorry, Ecclesiastes 12:7 does not disagree with the rest of his book. Solomon also wrote....
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10...
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20....
“for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.”

The “spirit” that “returns to God” is “the breathe of life”.....the one thing that God gave Adam to bring his body to life. The base meaning of the word “spirit” is “breath”.....which is restored when a resurrection brings back life to those called from their graves. (John 5:28-29)

I believe that your interpretation argues with what the entirety of scripture teaches.

Teritos said:

The reincarnation is not biblical.

The spirit is the power of God that keeps all living beings alive. It is in our nose and blood and disappears when we die.

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actually regeneration = palingenesis = metamorphosis = reincarnation.

reincarnation is the newly coined word. The ancient Greek is palingenesi.

regeneration is used twice in the new testament.

And some jewish people believe in palingenesis the Pharisees believed in metempsychosis.

Don't you find it interesting that the last time Elijah was at the Jordan and the first time he sees the Lord is at the Jordan?

Matthew 19:28

Titus 3:5

Deeje said:

“Elijah” already came in the person of John the Baptist, who prepared repentant Jews for their awaited Messiah. He baptized them so that they were ready to accept the teachings of Jesus, who exposed the religious leaders of the day as true sons of their forefathers who murdered the prophets sent to correct them.

Matthew 3:7-10....said of John B....
“When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

Jesus also spoke of those “vipers” as the ones who silenced the prophets of old. (Matthew 23:33, 34, 37)


Why would he? The real Elijah was merely relocated in a whirlwind, after appointing Elisha as his successor......he wrote a letter to the King of Judah later, so he did not die and go to heaven as many assume. (2 Kings 2:11; 2 Chronicles 21:12-15)


There is no reincarnation in the Bible....there is no immortal soul either.....there is only resurrection, which is a return to life, not a continuation of it.


I think you mean Malachi 3:1....?
John the Baptist fulfilled that role....

Matthew 11:12-14....
“From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. 13 For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is ‘E·liʹjah who is to come.’”


No sorry, Ecclesiastes 12:7 does not disagree with the rest of his book. Solomon also wrote....
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10...
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20....
“for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.”

The “spirit” that “returns to God” is “the breathe of life”.....the one thing that God gave Adam to bring his body to life. The base meaning of the word “spirit” is “breath”.....which is restored when a resurrection brings back life to those called from their graves. (John 5:28-29)

I believe that your interpretation argues with what the entirety of scripture teaches.

Click to expand...

there is no eternal personality.

The Hebrew ruach = English Spirit literally is mind too.

Paul tells in the NT

Do you not know that your body is the temple of the holy spirit which is the Christ consciousness.

Colossians 3:11

Fool said:

there is no eternal personality.

Click to expand...

For humans there is no 'eternal' anything, if you want to be pedantic. No eternal personage has ever existed except God himself. (as it literally means 'no beginning or end') All other personages (both angelic and human) were created, including God's "firstborn", so all had a beginning. These were not granted immortality because of having free will. If free will was abused (as it was in Eden) then God would have no way of dealing with rebels. He had to be able to "destroy" that life in "gehenna" if necessary as Jesus said....

Matthew 10:28....
"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna."

Understanding what a "soul" is according to the Hebrew and Greek understanding of the words, is vital to gaining the truth about these twisted ideas. Souls are mortal, they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

Nowhere in any passage of scripture will you find these two words, "immortal soul", together.
A "soul" only ever describes "a living, breathing creature".....it is never used to describe a disembodied spirit. Therefore Jesus' words in Matthew 10:28 are telling us that "souls" are "destroyed" in "gehenna" not just that they are punished. There is no consciousness in death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) So in order to suffer, one must be conscious. I hope you are getting the picture....

John 3 :16 is also a scripture familiar to many Christians....
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

People dwell on the first part of that verse but ignore the second part as if its not even there.....that the opposite of everlasting life is destruction, not eternal torment in a fiery hell.

The Hebrew ruach = English Spirit literally is mind too.

Click to expand...

Both the Hebrew word (ruʹach) and the Greek word (pneuʹma) basically mean “breath” or “wind.” And the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin spiritus, which also means “breath.”

But the word translated "soul" in Greek is "psy·cheʹ" which, like the Hebrew, conjures up thoughts of a functioning mind. (its where we get 'psychiatry' or 'psychosis' in English) This agrees with the idea that a soul is a living breathing sentient creature, whilst a spirit is not the same thing at all. These words are not interchangeable as some people seem to think.

"Ruʹach" is used in Genesis to describe the "souls" which God created before humans....animals, birds and sea creatures. So it really does not convey the idea of a departing spirit that goes on living in another realm. It simply describes living things.

The Hebrew, Greek, and English words for “spirit” are used in many different ways. But in all their uses they have⁠ something in common: They all refer to something that is invisible to humans and that gives the evidence of force in motion—just like breath or wind.

Paul tells in the NT

Do you not know that your body is the temple of the holy spirit which is the Christ consciousness.

Colossians 3:11

Click to expand...

To quote things out of context is not the way to get to the truth.
What else did Paul say in that chapter?...who was he addressing? Verse 12....
"Accordingly, as God’s chosen ones, holy and loved, clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, humility, mildness, and patience. "

Who are "the chosen ones" here? What are they "chosen" for?
Paul also describes these in Hebrews 3:1....
"Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus."

Not all Christians have the "heavenly calling" because these are chosen for a specific role in the heavenly Kingdom. As Jesus said in Revelation 20:6....
"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years."

In Revelation 14:1-4, these ones are numbered, and are chosen from the earth as "firstfruits" meaning that there were others to be gathered as secondary fruits. He was speaking to agriculturalists who well understood the concept of "firstfruits"....and the later gathering of the secondary crop.

This makes perfect sense because Kings need subjects, and Priests need sinners for whom to perform their duties. These ones are mentioned in Revelation 21:2-4...
"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Do you see the purpose of the Kingdom is to rule over us and guide us back to God's first purpose in Eden.....to remove all causes of pain and suffering permanently, so as to have perfect sinless humans living forever in paradise on earth, as we were meant to do in the first place.....? God always finishes what he starts. (Isaiah 55:11)

Deeje said:

For humans there is no 'eternal' anything, if you want to be pedantic. No eternal personage has ever existed except God himself. (as it literally means 'no beginning or end') All other personages (both angelic and human) were created, including God's "firstborn", so all had a beginning. These were not granted immortality because of having free will. If free will was abused (as it was in Eden) then God would have no way of dealing with rebels. He had to be able to "destroy" that life in "gehenna" if necessary as Jesus said....

Matthew 10:28....
"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna."

Understanding what a "soul" is according to the Hebrew and Greek understanding of the words, is vital to gaining the truth about these twisted ideas. Souls are mortal, they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

Nowhere in any passage of scripture will you find these two words, "immortal soul", together.
A "soul" only ever describes "a living, breathing creature".....it is never used to describe a disembodied spirit. Therefore Jesus' words in Matthew 10:28 are telling us that "souls" are "destroyed" in "gehenna" not just that they are punished. There is no consciousness in death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) So in order to suffer, one must be conscious. I hope you are getting the picture....

John 3 :16 is also a scripture familiar to many Christians....
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

People dwell on the first part of that verse but ignore the second part as if its not even there.....that the opposite of everlasting life is destruction, not eternal torment in a fiery hell.



Both the Hebrew word (ruʹach) and the Greek word (pneuʹma) basically mean “breath” or “wind.” And the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin spiritus, which also means “breath.”

But the word translated "soul" in Greek is "psy·cheʹ" which, like the Hebrew, conjures up thoughts of a functioning mind. (its where we get 'psychiatry' or 'psychosis' in English) This agrees with the idea that a soul is a living breathing sentient creature, whilst a spirit is not the same thing at all. These words are not interchangeable as some people seem to think.

"Ruʹach" is used in Genesis to describe the "souls" which God created before humans....animals, birds and sea creatures. So it really does not convey the idea of a departing spirit that goes on living in another realm. It simply describes living things.

The Hebrew, Greek, and English words for “spirit” are used in many different ways. But in all their uses they have⁠ something in common: They all refer to something that is invisible to humans and that gives the evidence of force in motion—just like breath or wind.



To quote things out of context is not the way to get to the truth.
What else did Paul say in that chapter?...who was he addressing? Verse 12....
"Accordingly, as God’s chosen ones, holy and loved, clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, humility, mildness, and patience. "

Who are "the chosen ones" here? What are they "chosen" for?
Paul also describes these in Hebrews 3:1....
"Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus."

Not all Christians have the "heavenly calling" because these are chosen for a specific role in the heavenly Kingdom. As Jesus said in Revelation 20:6....
"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years."

In Revelation 14:1-4, these ones are numbered, and are chosen from the earth as "firstfruits" meaning that there were others to be gathered as secondary fruits. He was speaking to agriculturalists who well understood the concept of "firstfruits"....and the later gathering of the secondary crop.

This makes perfect sense because Kings need subjects, and Priests need sinners for whom to perform their duties. These ones are mentioned in Revelation 21:2-4...
"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Do you see the purpose of the Kingdom is to rule over us and guide us back to God's first purpose in Eden.....to remove all causes of pain and suffering permanently, so as to have perfect sinless humans living forever in paradise on earth, as we were meant to do in the first place.....? God always finishes what he starts. (Isaiah 55:11)

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You sound one of those Jews that took issue with Jesus using single quotes. Yet you're ok posting a whole camel and yet gag at gnat.

a spirit and a personality/human are not the same thing. The spirit takes on a carnal form. The person/human isn't eternal. The spirit is eternal and has no specific form.

A person, human, doesn't actively incorporate a spirit unless it's by possession. So humans are temporal. Spirit is eternal.

Fool said:

From the tanach we are told that elijah will be sent before the day of the lord.

Will Elijah return in a whirlwind as he went?

or will he reincarnate?

malachi 4:5

Click to expand...

Reincarnation is never mentioned in the bible.

Fool said:

You sound one of those Jews that took issue with Jesus using single quotes. You 'ok post a whole camel and gag at gnat.

Click to expand...

Who were those Jews who did that?
What camel did I post and what gnat did I gag on? Please use scripture....

Fool said:

a spirit and a personality/human are not the same thing.

Click to expand...

Never said they were. I said the meaning of the word "spirit" in Hebrew (ruʹach) and the Greek word (pneuʹma) basically mean “breath” or “wind.”

Why do we call our car tires "pneumatic"? Why is a lung infection called "pneumonia"? These pertain to air and that which fills the lungs, to keep us alive. Returning the breath to the lungs of a resurrected soul is what Ecclesiastes 12:7 means.

The spirit takes on a carnal form. The person/human isn't eternal. The spirit is eternal and has no specific form.

Click to expand...

The only spirits to take on carnal form were God's son and the angels whom God sent to bring messages to his earthly servants. Angels always materialized in human form. They ate and drank when hospitality was offered.
Jesus was the only spirit being to have his life transferred from heaven to be born as a sinless human child. This was a one off arrangement for the redeeming of the human race.

Fool said:

A person, human, doesn't actively incorporate a spirit unless it's by possession. So humans are temporal. Spirit is eternal.

Click to expand...

That is not what the Bible says.....the 'spirit' in Adam was the "breath of life"...the very same "spirit" that keeps every human breathing....the very same "spirit" that keeps animals alive as well. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

Deeje said:

Who were those Jews who did that?
What camel did I post and what gnat did I gag on? Please use scripture....


Never said they were. I said the meaning of the word "spirit" in Hebrew (ruʹach) and the Greek word (pneuʹma) basically mean “breath” or “wind.”

Why do we call our car tires "pneumatic"? Why is a lung infection called "pneumonia"? These pertain to air and that which fills the lungs, to keep us alive. Returning the breath to the lungs of a resurrected soul is what Ecclesiastes 12:7 means.


The only spirits to take on carnal form were God's son and the angels whom God sent to bring messages to his earthly servants. Angels always materialized in human form. They ate and drank when hospitality was offered.
Jesus was the only spirit being to have his life transferred from heaven to be born as a sinless human child. This was a one off arrangement for the redeeming of the human race.



That is not what the Bible says.....the 'spirit' in Adam was the "breath of life"...the very same "spirit" that keeps every human breathing....the very same "spirit" that keeps animals alive as well. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

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Spirit or pneuma in NT also means mind.

a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition,

Strong's G4151

Neuropteron said:

Reincarnation is never mentioned in the bible.

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The English word regeneration is the term used in lieu for Greek word palingenesis; which is the ancient term used for the idea of reincarnation. The word reincarnation wasn't coined until the mid 1800s.

Regeneration is found in the bible twice.

Fool said:

The English word regeneration is the term used in lieu for Greek word palingenesis; which is the ancient term used for the idea of reincarnation. The word reincarnation wasn't coined until the mid 1800s.

Regeneration is found in the bible twice.

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You are confusing reincarnation with resurrection.

Regeneration means to “generate again”....to bring something back to the way it was. To “regenerate” life is “resurrection” which does not involve belief in an immortal soul that leaves one body and lives on to inhabit another.....this is not the resurrection which was demonstrated by Jesus....who raised his friend Lazarus by restoring his life in a resurrected body.....his body, not someone else’s. (John 11:11-14)

He “restored” Lazarus’ former life by repairing his body, (which, after four days would have begun to decompose) giving him back the “breath of life”....and returning him to his family.

Deeje said:

You are confusing reincarnation with resurrection.

Regeneration means to “generate again”....to bring something back to the way it was. To “regenerate” life is “resurrection” which does not involve belief in an immortal soul that leaves one body and lives on to inhabit another.....this is not the resurrection which was demonstrated by Jesus....who raised his friend Lazarus by restoring his life in a resurrected body.....his body, not someone else’s. (John 11:11-14)

He “restored” Lazarus’ former life by repairing his body, (which, after four days would have begun to decompose) giving him back the “breath of life”....and returning him to his family.

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no, they were the same thing. Jesus told you that Elijah had come.

reincarnation is a modern day term. Prior to the 1800s another term was used. In ancient 1st century ce. Jesus told the Jews that Abraham was glad to see his day. He was melchizedek.

psalms 110:4

And like the Jews of Jesus time you are denying scripture

Fool said:

The English word regeneration is the term used in lieu for Greek word palingenesis; which is the ancient term used for the idea of reincarnation. The word reincarnation wasn't coined until the mid 1800s.

Regeneration is found in the bible twice.

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Thank you for this information.
palingenesis however when used in scriptural context can only refer to the doctrine of the resurrection, since the concept of reincarnation requires the belief that the human soul does not die with the body but is born again in a new incarnations.
An equivalent doctrine is to be found in Metempsychosis which refers to transmigration of the soul, especially in reincarnation after death.
The definition of these terms is generally derived from the context of ancient Greek philosophy not from the bible.

Neuropteron said:

Thank you for this information.
palingenesis however when used in scriptural context can only refer to the doctrine of the resurrection, since the concept of reincarnation requires the belief that the human soul does not die with the body but is born again in a new incarnations.
An equivalent doctrine is to be found in Metempsychosis which refers to transmigration of the soul, especially in reincarnation after death.
The definition of these terms is generally derived from the context of ancient Greek philosophy not from the bible.

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you don't know what you're talking about.

A person doesn't reincarnate, the Spirit does. And there is no immediate reincarnation.

the word regeneration literally means palingenesis. So yo sure claiming the scripture is flawed?

In early Christianity the Phoenix was used as a symbol of the resurrection. That is because the phoenix is a symbol of reincarnation.

Over time, extending beyond its origins, the phoenix could variously "symbolize renewal in general as well as the sun, time, the Empire, metempsychosis, consecration, resurrection, life in the heavenly Paradise, Christ, Mary, virginity, the exceptional man, and certain aspects of Christian life".