Mediaeval Thread

Hi folks!

This thread is for all discussions Mediaeval; for dispelling myths and common misunderstandings about the European Mediaeval period. This is in General Discussion, so please no debating. I would like this to be a friendly exchange of information if we can keep it that way. Feel free to make posts about anything Mediaeval related; it needn't necessarily follow the conversation.

For the purposes of this thread, the definition of Mediaeval will cover from the fall of the Western Roman Empire (you can define this for yourself) to 1500.

This is a huuuuuuge swath of time and area to cover!

I think a common misconception about medieval Europe was that it's martial arts was slow, clumsy, and basic. This video is cheesy and dramatic, but it showcases some of the reconstructed techniques we actually find in old fighting manuals, so it's a little eye opening into how medieval martial arts would have been more like.


There are new organizations that try to reconstruct that martial arts, too, with varying success.

SigurdReginson said:

This is a huuuuuuge swath of time and area to cover!

I think a common misconception about medieval Europe was that it's martial arts was slow, clumsy, and basic. This video is cheesy and dramatic, but it showcases some of the reconstructed techniques we actually find in old fighting manuals, so it's a little eye opening into how medieval martial arts would have been more like.

There are new organizations that try to reconstruct that martial arts, too, with varying success.

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It is always interesting to learn of real sword fighting techniques and methods. What we're used to seeing on Hollywood just doesn't match. And the real thing so much more fun to watch than hacking and slashing that would be brutal torture and murder for a sword.

People in the middle ages were generally fairly hygenic and washed fairly regularly.

I am also fascinated learning people then weren't as superstitious like we often think. Sure, there were some witch trials and burnings, but much of the church did not agree with Heinrich Kramer and condemned his Malleus Maleficarum. And England was much quicker to diminish Church rule and power than typically portrayed.

"Christian Dark Ages" (just no)

The church was against science and learning (it was the largest supporter of both)

The church systematically destroyed pagan texts leading to a loss of ancient knowledge (it did more to save them than any other institution)

That we have ancient Greek texts only because Muslims saved them (there are no texts that were recovered via translation from Arabic only. Scholars from the Islamic world did make many advances on the ideas from the ancient texts that were influential though)

That it was rare to reach 50+ years of age (as long as you survived childhood it was probable)

Augustus said:

That we have ancient Greek texts only because Muslims saved them (there are no texts that were recovered via translation from Arabic only. Scholars from the Islamic world did make many advances on the ideas from the ancient texts that were influential though)

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Also it's like folks forget the Byzantines, who never 'lost' anything, relatively spekaing.

Psalm23 said:

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That actually is said to be one of the better and more accurate portrayals. Like the scene where it shows the filth and dirt that Arthur rides through, and someone remarks he must be a king because he doesn't have **** all over him.

Shadow Wolf said:

there were some witch trials and burnings, but much of the church did not agree with Heinrich Kramer and condemned his Malleus Maleficarum.

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For most of the medieval period the church teaching was that witches didn't exist.

The witch trials were mostly during the early modern period, post Reformation.

Augustus said:

"Christian Dark Ages" (just no)

The church was against science and learning (it was the largest supporter of both)

The church systematically destroyed pagan texts leading to a loss of ancient knowledge (it did more to save them than any other institution)

That we have ancient Greek texts only because Muslims saved them (there are no texts that were recovered via translation from Arabic only. Scholars from the Islamic world did make many advances on the ideas from the ancient texts that were influential though)

That it was rare to reach 50+ years of age (as long as you survived childhood it was probable)

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You have beaten me to it on every category.

Rival said:

Also it's like folks forget the Byzantines, who never 'lost' anything, relatively spekaing.

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And the Christian Monks who wrote and preserved what they could and did are the real heroes of history, and deserving of sainthood that far exceed the prestige of "regular sainthood."

Augustus said:

New "Christian Dark Ages" (just no)

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Dark Ages is appropriate, but it seems not many know what is actually meant and said by "Dark Ages."
Dark Ages (historiography) - Wikipedia

The concept of a "Dark Age" originated in the 1330s with the Italian scholar Petrarch, who regarded the post-Roman centuries as "dark" compared to the "light" of classical antiquity.[1][2] The term employs traditional light-versus-darkness imagery to contrast the era's "darkness" (lack of records) with earlier and later periods of "light" (abundance of records).[1]

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Shadow Wolf said:

It is always interesting to learn of real sword fighting techniques and methods. What we're used to seeing on Hollywood just doesn't match. And the real thing so much more fun to watch than hacking and slashing that would be brutal torture and murder for a sword.

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Four years ago at Castelnaud there was a display by the chief historical armourer of the Tower of London. It included different aspects of the life and times of mediaeval knight, their squires and the average soldier. The equipment was great. And the demonstrations of sword fights, one on one and mass fights several per side. You are correct, Hollywood just does not come close.

Peasants ate fairly healthy food. At the time processed food couldn't be mass produced so things like white flour and processed sugar was mostly eaten by the aristocratic class, where peasants ate things like fresh caught fish with an herb salad and low alcohol ales, whole breads and lots and lots of peas.

The term 'upper crust' came from communal bread ovens where the most desirable bread was furthest from the sooty, sometimes overcooked base of the bread. So upper crust = wealthy.

Veal was popular because every level of social class ate cheese due to its easy keep and variety. But vegetable based rennet wasn't available, so the only enzyme used to start the cheese process was from the unweened stomachs of calfs and lamb.

Most people didn't own a lot of cutlery and dishware. Food was served in hard, inedible bread shells and eaten by hand. Large gatherings usually used stale bread 'trenchers' as plates, which absorbed the juices of the meal. These trenchers were usually collected and donated to the poor.

Aromatic herbs were very popular and many medieval houses would smell quite lovely because people thought disease was caused by 'bad miasma.' So people went to lengths to keep their houses smelling good. Some of these herbs were also scattered on the floor as natural insect repellents.

Most castles did not have bare stone walls. Lime whitewashing was very popular because it was better insulated and white bounced around more light, making candles less necessary. The walls also often had very colorful painted murals. The washing needed to be repeated though so most castle remains these days have lost their whitewash due to natural wear.

Shadow Wolf said:

Dark Ages is appropriate, but it seems not many know what is actually meant and said by "Dark Ages."
Dark Ages (historiography) - Wikipedia

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I personally cannot stand the Dark Ages/Renaissance/Enlightenment periodisation as it is hugely self-congratulatory on behalf of the later scholars who were basically saying 'look how great we are".

Also the "Renaissance" was in part a reaction to the "vulgarity" of Gothic styles like this monstrosity

Augustus said:

I personally cannot stand the Dark Ages/Renaissance/Enlightenment periodisation as it is hugely self-congratulatory on behalf of the later scholars who were basically saying 'look how great we are".

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They're basically all that way, from the Stone Age to today.
(I love the Gothic style of architecture, by the way, and find that a very beautiful church)

Rival said:

Also it's like folks forget the Byzantines, who never 'lost' anything, relatively spekaing.

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They lost Constantinople to the Turks (because of the Venetians/4th Crusade)

ADigitalArtist said:

Peasants ate fairly healthy food. At the time processed food couldn't be mass produced so things like white flour and processed sugar was mostly eaten by the aristocratic class, where peasants ate things like fresh caught fish with an herb salad and low alcohol ales, whole breads and lots and lots of peas.

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They also ate a TON of calories by our standards. I don't remember the range estimates, but we'd all be severely obese eating what they did.

Augustus said:

They lost Constantinople to the Turks (because of the Venetians/4th Crusade)

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It didn't fall until Mehmed II/the Conqueror sacked it int he mid 15th century.

Shadow Wolf said:

They're basically all that way, from the Stone Age to today.
(I love the Gothic style of architecture, by the way, and find that a very beautiful church)

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It's the wonderful Salisbury Cathedral.

It's quite funny to think of some Renaissance fops looking at buildings like that the way we would look at some concrete tower block from the 1960s