Who searches mind and heart?

Teritos · May 25, 2021

God in the OT,
I, Yahweh, search the heart, I test the mind, to give to each person according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds. Jeremiah 17:10

Jesus in the NT,
And all the churches will know that I am He who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your deeds. Revelation 2:23

To me, all these connections between the God of the OT and Jesus in the NT are much more powerful than if Jesus would just say "I am God". Is it not clear enough that the Bible wants to tell us that Jesus is God himself? The most common name in the OT is Yahweh and the most common name in the NT is Jesus. Jesus is Yahweh.

Rival · May 25, 2021

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Numbers 23:19.

Teritos · May 25, 2021

Rival said:
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Numbers 23:19.

Jesus is not a man who lied and repented, so this passage does not contradict anything.

Rival · May 25, 2021

Teritos said:
Jesus is not a man who lied and repented, so this passage does not contradict anything.

The passage literally says God is not a man.

Again, here in Job, about God,

For He is not a man, as I am, that I might answer him, that we should come to trial together.

Teritos · May 25, 2021

Rival said:
The passage literally says God is not a man.

Again, here in Job, about God,

For He is not a man, as I am, that I might answer him, that we should come to trial together.

Not a man that he lies or repents. Please note the whole context, it refers to the sinful nature of man. But God's incarnation is perfect and sinless.

Rival · May 25, 2021

Teritos said:
Not a man that he lies or repents. Please note the whole context, it refers to the sinful nature of man. But God's incarnation is perfect and sinless.

God is not a man, it's plain as day. God in the Torah says it, and Job straight up says 'He is not a man'.

I know your Christianity forces you to argue against this, but it is right there.

There's also the issue of Jesus being baptised by John, which is an outward sign of repentance and cleansing.

MatthewA · May 25, 2021

Hello; Here are some scriptures about the heart and mind is read by Christ, and God. There is also more information around the surrounding text if you desire to learn more about the context of these provided scriptures.

Proverbs 15:11 (NAS)
11 Sheol and Abaddon lie open before the Lord , How much more the hearts of men!

Jeremiah 20:12 (NAS)
12 Yet, O Lord of hosts, You who test the righteous, Who see the mind and the heart; Let me see Your vengeance on them; For to You I have set forth my cause.

Matthew 12:25 (NAS)
25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.

Matthew 22:18 (NAS)
18 But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, "Why are you testing Me, you hypocrites?

Mark 2:8 (NAS)
8 Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, *said to them, "Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts?

Luke 6:8 (NAS)
8 But He knew what they were thinking, and He said to the man with the withered hand, "Get up and come forward!" And he got up and came forward.

Luke 11:17 (NAS)
17 But He knew their thoughts and said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls.

Luke 16:15 (NAS)
15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.

John 2:25 (NAS)
25 and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man.

Acts 15:8 (NAS)
8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

Teritos · May 25, 2021

Rival said:
God is not a man, it's plain as day. God in the Torah says it, and Job straight up says 'He is not a man'.

I know your Christianity forces you to argue against this, but it is right there.

Job also refers to the sinful nature of man. I don't understand why people are so hard against the incarnation of God? What is so bad about God becoming a man and living a sinless life?

Rival said:
There's also the issue of Jesus being baptised by John, which is an outward sign of repentance and cleansing.

Jesus did not baptize himself to repent, he baptized himself so that "righteousness might be fulfilled" (Matthew 3:14-15). Jesus did not sin, according to the Bible he is "the only one without sin" as many apostles testify. Considering the context, the baptism of Jesus cannot be used to infer a made sin by Jesus at all.

Shakeel · May 25, 2021

Teritos said:
Jesus in the NT,
And all the churches will know that I am He who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your deeds. Revelation 2:23

20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. 24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25 except to hold on to what you have until I come.’ 26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.

The last bit is strange, isn't it?

Teritos · May 25, 2021

Shakeel said:
The last bit is strange, isn't it?

Jesus, as the second person of the Trinity, was always eternal, divine, and thus had all authority over everything. Yet, in love for us and submission to the Father, He humbled Himself and also became a man. As a man, He was the son of David, the rightful king of Israel. Yet, like David, who was anointed King yet spent many years of suffering and exile before He formally took His throne, Jesus spent many years as a servant “with no place to lay His head,” the authorities seeking and finally taking His life. Only after His death and resurrection did Jesus, in His humanity, claim the kingly authority over the nations which were already His right and ascend in the flesh to be seated at the right hand of the Father not only as God but also as man. Only then, after His resurrection, did He send His followers out to all nations to proclaim His name to all peoples. Only then did He elevate even His human nature to the place above that of the angels. In this, He sealed our salvation, and these otherwise vexing passages are pointing to this truth.

If you want it in more detail, here's the rest: If Jesus was already God, what does it mean that He was “given” authority (carm.org)

MatthewA · May 25, 2021

Shakeel said:
The last bit is strange, isn't it?

To me this is speaking against those who were of the Children of Israel whom God was going to afford his wrath upon for their willful disobedience; and believe that this wrath for a reason. If the destruction of Jerusalem never happened in 70ad. My perception is that our world would have been a very completely different place. Reading that scripture you added there are specific people whom are being written to in this Letter that is known as the Revelation; to the seven churches from a long time ago during heavy persecution of the end of age for them at the time; in which their hope was the return of Christ to get the 1st church bride up out of there before the destruction had came.

Those are just some my own thoughts and it is possible for me to be wrong, thank you for adding the rest of the scriptures, Shakeel.

Rival · May 25, 2021

Teritos said:
Job also refers to the sinful nature of man.

This is a Christian reading. Judaism does not have a concept of 'Original Sin' or man's sinful nature in the way Christianity has, so this already doesn't work.

Teritos said:
I don't understand why people are so hard against the incarnation of God? What is so bad about God becoming a man and living a sinless life?

Because it's a foreign concept to Judaism. It is never alluded to in any books in the Tanakh.

Teritos said:
esus did not baptize himself to repent, he baptized himself so that "righteousness might be fulfilled" (Matthew 3:14-15). Jesus did not sin, according to the Bible he is "the only one without sin" as many apostles testify. Considering the context, the baptism of Jesus cannot be used to infer a made sin by Jesus at all.

18...Through the waters of Baptism those who are born into this world dead in sin are not only born again and made members of the Church, but being stamped with a spiritual seal they become able and fit to receive the other Sacraments.

From Mystici corporis Christi - Wikipedia

The biggest issue here is that, from what we can see, Jesus did sin. However when this is pointed out to Christians the answer is inevitably, 'He can do it because he's Jesus'. Things such as allowing his disciples to pick corn on Shabbat; abandoning his family; using violence around the Temple and asking his disciples to drink wine as his blood and bread as his body, are sins.

MatthewA · May 25, 2021

All I know is what scriptures say about Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 5: 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Jesus Christ knew no sin. Yet, Jesus Christ took on our infirmities (Matthew 8:17) ~ Our sin, and that is what killed Him. Jesus Christ took our sins and died, allowing for us to to die to sin that is in our own life and hearts from my understanding. Being resurrected like Christ ~ being raised again in the spiritual sense and walking by and through the spirit. (Colossians 3:1) (Galatians 5:20-24)

Very Glad the Lord Jesus Christ did pay for the sins of all the entire world otherwise we would not be in a good standing position right now, I believe. People may believe differently and that is okay and fine with me; though my stance will be that Jesus Christ never sinned either.

SigurdReginson · May 25, 2021

Then there's the whole "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" Thing in Matthew 27:46.

Was he talking to himself, or...?

John1.12 · May 25, 2021

Teritos said:
God in the OT,
I, Yahweh, search the heart, I test the mind, to give to each person according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds. Jeremiah 17:10

Jesus in the NT,
And all the churches will know that I am He who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your deeds. Revelation 2:23

To me, all these connections between the God of the OT and Jesus in the NT are much more powerful than if Jesus would just say "I am God". Is it not clear enough that the Bible wants to tell us that Jesus is God himself? The most common name in the OT is Yahweh and the most common name in the NT is Jesus. Jesus is Yahweh.

Agreed

Teritos · May 25, 2021

SigurdReginson said:
Then there's the whole "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" Thing in Matthew 27:46.

Was he talking to himself, or...?

If Jesus is God, then who did He pray to? | carm.org

John1.12 · May 25, 2021

Rival said:
The passage literally says God is not a man.

Again, here in Job, about God,

For He is not a man, as I am, that I might answer him, that we should come to trial together.

For He is not a man,( as I am)

Rival · May 25, 2021

Barry Johnson said:
For He is not a man,( as I am)

You are not a girl, like I am.

Does that mean you are a girl, just not one like me?

Nope. It's an emphasis for comparison.

MatthewA · May 25, 2021

SigurdReginson said:
Then there's the whole "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" Thing in Matthew 27:46.

Was he talking to himself, or...?

That is a good question @SigurdReginson. Would like to share my view point on this is that because in the presence of sin is not allowed in front of God.

So that word: forsaken means: Strong's Greek: 1459. ἐγκαταλείπω (egkataleipó) -- to leave behind, i.e. (in a good sense) let remain over or (in a bad sense) desert

I believe that ( God resides in the body of the Son of God Jesus Christ - by The spirit of God.)

Jesus Christ took on the entire sin of the world which (Sin leads to death) ~ Jesus died; taking on the populations sin. God could not dwell in the presence of sin. So Jesus Christ gave up the spirit; which to me means that God had left, and sin had been paid for. Jesus Christ died, and went to Sheol/Hell. Proclaimed a message while in the heart of the earth to the souls who had perished in the flood. Afterwards 3 days on earth passed and it came to fruition of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, by God. Raised from the dead. Fulling the promises Jesus Christ had told his disciples previously in the Gospels.

I find it interesting, and it might be confusing to other people; ( I have no problems with any of it personally.)

Very good question though.

John1.12 · May 25, 2021

Rival said:
You are not a girl, like I am.

Does that mean you are a girl, just not one like me?

Nope. It's an emphasis for comparison.

Its still the negative inference fallacy.

Who searches mind and heart?

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