What are your thoughts on Christianity?

Deeje said:

And this is what I have come to expect from you....complete lack of comprehension. The sites that I investigated all said that aging and death were caused genetically......that science knows that cells are programmed to age and eventually die, but they have no idea why they do it, since the process of cell renewal should theoretically go on forever. Death is in the genes....but there is no reason why it should be.

What does the Bible say causes death? "SIN".....but as a "Christian" you are supposed to know that. (Romans 5:12)



YET.....his death has granted forgiveness of our sins for now, but the reversal of the Edenic penalty will be accomplished by the rule of his Kingdom, still to come. That is when death "will be no more". (Revelation 21:2-4)
The Bible is not your strong point, is it?


How do you figure that? They can't even address all the genetically transmitted diseases.....let alone aging and death.....you don't seem to have a clue.

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Deeje said:

And this is what I have come to expect from you....complete lack of comprehension. The sites that I investigated all said that aging and death were caused genetically......that science knows that cells are programmed to age and eventually die, but they have no idea why they do it, since the process of cell renewal should theoretically go on forever. Death is in the genes....but there is no reason why it should be.

What does the Bible say causes death? "SIN".....but as a "Christian" you are supposed to know that. (Romans 5:12)



YET.....his death has granted forgiveness of our sins for now, but the reversal of the Edenic penalty will be accomplished by the rule of his Kingdom, still to come. That is when death "will be no more". (Revelation 21:2-4)
The Bible is not your strong point, is it?


How do you figure that? They can't even address all the genetically transmitted diseases.....let alone aging and death.....you don't seem to have a clue.

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Deeje said:

And this is what I have come to expect from you....complete lack of comprehension. The sites that I investigated all said that aging and death were caused genetically......that science knows that cells are programmed to age and eventually die, but they have no idea why they do it, since the process of cell renewal should theoretically go on forever. Death is in the genes....but there is no reason why it should be.

What does the Bible say causes death? "SIN".....but as a "Christian" you are supposed to know that. (Romans 5:12)



YET.....his death has granted forgiveness of our sins for now, but the reversal of the Edenic penalty will be accomplished by the rule of his Kingdom, still to come. That is when death "will be no more". (Revelation 21:2-4)
The Bible is not your strong point, is it?


How do you figure that? They can't even address all the genetically transmitted diseases.....let alone aging and death.....you don't seem to have a clue.

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Viker said:

I'm a former Christian. Even baptized at 11. But my experience with it was often nightmarish. I was mostly filled with heartbreak and disappointment. For a few years I lashed out against it. I've since grown and moved on with no hate or grudge to bear. Those will weigh someone down.

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Dan From Smithville said:

I think you are missing the point. If there is a sin gene or genes, the implications are tremendous. At the very least, these should be capable of being characterized to support a claim that sin is genetic. Is sin a dominant or a recessive trait? Which gene or genes is it? If they are known, the could be removed from the genome by some means. If you are born without these genes, why would you not be sinless? If sin is a gene and having it is unavoidable, what does that say about the necessity for the crucifixion of Christ? What does accepting Christ as your savior do to your genotype if sin is genetic? We should be able to detect the change.

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metis said:

We must die to make room for others. If life forms didn't die, the world would have been too overcrowded millions to even maybe billions of years ago. Thus, I really do not believe that "original sin" is not why we die, especially since life forms were dying long before us humans ever inhabited Earth.

However, dying is not high on my bucket-list, just to be clear.

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YoursTrue said:

Since you say you are Christian, why then do you believe we die? Is it genetic?

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YoursTrue said:

That's kind of what my very nice and likeable American history teacher told me in high school when I asked in my naivete, why do nations go to war? It saddened me to think about it. He said sometimes to make room for others. I thought what? That's kind of sad. I had my whole life ahead of me and I looked forward to it. With what I learned later from the Bible, however, God did not offer the opportunity for animals to decide whether or not they would about listen to him. He did so only with Adam and Eve when he told Adam to not eat from that tree.

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Dan From Smithville said:

What about Hela cells. They are human cells that are, for practical purposes, immortal. They must be sinless. So there may be technical ways out of sin based on your claims.

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Dan From Smithville said:

If Adam and Eve were perfect in God's image, then their genomes must not have contained the sin genes.

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Yet they sinned which would indicate sin is not of the genes. How is that possible under your model?

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I am not clueless, but I do not have all the clues and am looking for them. Seems there are less where I am looking now than is claimed.

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Deeje said:

Hmmm.....I am no scientist, but looking things up is quite easy.
What about HeLa cells?.....
“HeLa cells, like other cell lines, are termed "immortal" in that they can divide an unlimited number of times in a laboratory cell culture plate as long as fundamental cell survival conditions are met (i.e. being maintained and sustained in a suitable environment).”
HeLa - Wikipedia

So these cells need a suitable environment in which to keep replicating....but, what happens if that environment is altered? The word “immortal” hardly applies if the cells’ environment is not suitable, and they cease doing what they are programmed to do. If those cells were “immortal”, nothing would prevent them from doing their job.
So grasping at straws seems to be what you are doing here.

As a Christian, one is supposed to be a follower of Christ, and Jesus relied on God’s word to guide him in all that he did and all that he taught. Science does not, and cannot, alter what the Bible says, except in the minds of doubters or unbelievers. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

Theoretical science (that which is “believed” but cannot be “proven”) is a “belief” system.....a substitute for religion in the minds of doubters, IMO. (James 1:5-8)


There was no defect in the original models, so reproduction would have passed no defective genes onto succeeding generations. They were instructed to “fill the earth” with their perfect children, but they were genetically and environmentally altered before they conceived them. Each successive generation passed on the faulty genes. Heredity is genetic. (Romans 5:12)

The Bible explains that there was an external means of ensuring “everlasting life”, (which is not immortality as “immortal” means that something living can never die) and that every imaginable variety of fruit was available to them with no effort on their part to produce their food. They had a perfect start, with perfect food and a perfect environment.....and access to something that would ensure that they maintained their health and well being, forever.....so there was nothing in their environment or their genetics to cause death.

The only mention of death was as a penalty for disobedience. There are no details on how that death penalty would take place, but one thing that is detailed is that access to the external means to give them unending life, was withdrawn. (Genesis 3:22-24) And the circumstances of their lives changed completely, including their diet and surroundings. The very ground that would produce their food was also “cursed”. What did that mean in real terms? Death for the succeeding generations of the human race was assured. How many ways are there to die?

God went to the trouble of making sure that access to the only means of unending life was denied on a permanent basis. As I see it, the environment in which the human cells could go on replicating indefinitely, was altered by their having no way to go on living. But, death was not immediate...it was a slow decline over many generations into shorter and shorter lifespans.
Yet, in fulfillment of the Bible’s words, on “the day” that they ate of the forbidden fruit (no one knows what that fruit was, but that makes no difference to the penalty) they began to die both physically and spiritually, separated from their Creator by “sin”.....i.e. going against the only negative law that he gave them eventually resulted in death for all humans to come. Has anyone you know dodged the bullet so far?

2 Peter 3:8 explains that a “day” to God is as “a thousand years”, so the longest a human has lived, according to Genesis was 969 years. Every human has therefore died within that 1,000 year “day”.


Exercising their free will, they were led to disobey their Creator, despite the fact that the penalty was clearly stated. The environment in which they lived, now changed dramatically, as they were evicted from their idyllic home and forced to eke out an existence on ‘cursed ground’. The details of how that major change in their lifestyle affected their genetics is not disclosed, but no scientist has ever been able to extend human life much beyond the meager “three score and ten” (70 years) which so many fail to reach. Since all mankind was now sentenced to this limitation of life, it had to be genetic. How else could it be explained?


If you knew your Bible as well as you know your science (which so far suggests that it isn’t extensive) you might be able to rise above science’s stunted view to see that there is a much bigger picture than what scientists can imagine.....and “imagine” is what they do best.....IMO.

You can’t find the clues?......please don’t ever consider becoming a detective....

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Deeje said:

Hmmm.....I am no scientist, but looking things up is quite easy.
What about HeLa cells?.....
“HeLa cells, like other cell lines, are termed "immortal" in that they can divide an unlimited number of times in a laboratory cell culture plate as long as fundamental cell survival conditions are met (i.e. being maintained and sustained in a suitable environment).”
HeLa - Wikipedia

So these cells need a suitable environment in which to keep replicating....but, what happens if that environment is altered? The word “immortal” hardly applies if the cells’ environment is not suitable, and they cease doing what they are programmed to do. If those cells were “immortal”, nothing would prevent them from doing their job.
So grasping at straws seems to be what you are doing here.

As a Christian, one is supposed to be a follower of Christ, and Jesus relied on God’s word to guide him in all that he did and all that he taught. Science does not, and cannot, alter what the Bible says, except in the minds of doubters or unbelievers. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

Theoretical science (that which is “believed” but cannot be “proven”) is a “belief” system.....a substitute for religion in the minds of doubters, IMO. (James 1:5-8)


There was no defect in the original models, so reproduction would have passed no defective genes onto succeeding generations. They were instructed to “fill the earth” with their perfect children, but they were genetically and environmentally altered before they conceived them. Each successive generation passed on the faulty genes. Heredity is genetic. (Romans 5:12)

The Bible explains that there was an external means of ensuring “everlasting life”, (which is not immortality as “immortal” means that something living can never die) and that every imaginable variety of fruit was available to them with no effort on their part to produce their food. They had a perfect start, with perfect food and a perfect environment.....and access to something that would ensure that they maintained their health and well being, forever.....so there was nothing in their environment or their genetics to cause death.

The only mention of death was as a penalty for disobedience. There are no details on how that death penalty would take place, but one thing that is detailed is that access to the external means to give them unending life, was withdrawn. (Genesis 3:22-24) And the circumstances of their lives changed completely, including their diet and surroundings. The very ground that would produce their food was also “cursed”. What did that mean in real terms? Death for the succeeding generations of the human race was assured. How many ways are there to die?

God went to the trouble of making sure that access to the only means of unending life was denied on a permanent basis. As I see it, the environment in which the human cells could go on replicating indefinitely, was altered by their having no way to go on living. But, death was not immediate...it was a slow decline over many generations into shorter and shorter lifespans.
Yet, in fulfillment of the Bible’s words, on “the day” that they ate of the forbidden fruit (no one knows what that fruit was, but that makes no difference to the penalty) they began to die both physically and spiritually, separated from their Creator by “sin”.....i.e. going against the only negative law that he gave them eventually resulted in death for all humans to come. Has anyone you know dodged the bullet so far?

2 Peter 3:8 explains that a “day” to God is as “a thousand years”, so the longest a human has lived, according to Genesis was 969 years. Every human has therefore died within that 1,000 year “day”.


Exercising their free will, they were led to disobey their Creator, despite the fact that the penalty was clearly stated. The environment in which they lived, now changed dramatically, as they were evicted from their idyllic home and forced to eke out an existence on ‘cursed ground’. The details of how that major change in their lifestyle affected their genetics is not disclosed, but no scientist has ever been able to extend human life much beyond the meager “three score and ten” (70 years) which so many fail to reach. Since all mankind was now sentenced to this limitation of life, it had to be genetic. How else could it be explained?


If you knew your Bible as well as you know your science (which so far suggests that it isn’t extensive) you might be able to rise above science’s stunted view to see that there is a much bigger picture than what scientists can imagine.....and “imagine” is what they do best.....IMO.

You can’t find the clues?......please don’t ever consider becoming a detective....

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YoursTrue said:

It saddened me to think about it. He said sometimes to make room for others. I thought what? That's kind of sad.

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YoursTrue said:

He did so only with Adam and Eve when he told Adam to not eat from that tree.

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Deeje said:

@Dan From Smithville....it is a complete waste of time discussing anything with you. No matter what is presented to you, you always screw it up, turn it upside down and misinterpret what is told to you....then you start ranting about your own strawman.

Let me put this as simply as I can....Christian to Christian...OK?

God did not create defective humans...they were created absolutely sinless....’perfect’ by any definition of the word....got that?

He gave them moral qualities and certain abilities that are missing in the animal kingdom. (hence why unprovable macro-evolution is a complete contradiction of scripture, and why Christians will deny it)

Because of being the only creatures “made in God’s image and likeness”, they would use those qualities and abilities to fulfill their assignment to “fill the earth and subdue it”. All other creatures were to be “in subjection” to them. (a bit difficult if they were themselves, just evolved animals)

Their role here was to represent their Creator as caretakers and zookeepers, so that responsibility for their assignment was 100% on them. God could leave it all in their capable hands......but along with their assignment they were given the faculty of free will, a necessary element in decision making, along with the ability to foresee future outcomes of their activity. Humans alone possess the ability to imagine, along with a concept of past, present and future. No other sentient creature is like us in this respect. Our uniqueness is undeniable.

So we have this great staring point...perfect, free willed creatures given a perfect home, with perfect mortal bodies, and with the prospect of living forever on earth and extending the boundaries of their paradise home by increasing the workforce, and together, ‘subduing’ the world outside of it. There were two trees in the garden representing two options...life or death. As long as they maintained obedience, reliance and trust in their “Father”, nothing would take that idyllic existence away from them. Life from the very beginning, was conditional.

Do we have the picture so far? The prospects were wonderful.....but now we have a rebel spirit who entertained grandiose ideas about his own magnificence, who plotted a takeover. He tempted the woman to take something that did not belong to her, knowing the penalty.

Free will is under the control of its possessor, so that no one can force any human to disobey, or to do anything against their will.....hence why this rebel (identified in scripture as satan the devil) had to lie in order to temp her to commit an act that would not only separate her from her Creator, but would result in her death.

The woman was not his main target however, he used her lack of education to convince her of something that was not true, in order to coerce her husband to join her by dividing his loyalties....and it worked. As he hoped, the two were separated from their Creator and the death penalty was now implemented....in two ways apparently.

First of all, access to the physical means they had in the garden to live forever, (the tree of life) was denied (Genesis 3:22-24)....and secondly whatever means God used to ensure that his clearly stated death penalty was implemented, it was inherited by all their children, meaning that they were in some way genetically altered. There is no other way to transmit a terminal condition to all their offspring. (Romans 5:12)

So there you have it. There was no faulty genes in their creation.
The genes became faulty after they disobeyed....it was part of the penalty that has affected every single human being ever since.

Now, if you want to call yourself a “Christian” and deny all of that in order to adopt an unproven scientific theory, then that is entirely up to you. Our beliefs are our choice.

We have free will too, and we are free to exercise it....but like the original humans, we can be conned by the devil too. If people don’t believe in him, then IMV, they are sitting ducks for his lies and deceptions......it’s not like we have no warnings....the Bible is full of them.

So....that is what I believe the Bible teaches us about how it all went pear shaped, how we lost our perfection, and where the Bible goes to great lengths to explain how God gets us back to what he purposed in the beginning. (Isaiah 55:11) He always finishes what he starts, but how many will be there at the end? I believe that is up to each person’s exercise of their own free will.

Now please, can we stop this misrepresentation of what I said......?

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Dan From Smithville said:

What misinterpretation? What straw man? I asked questions about your claim that sin is 100% genetically transmitted and you go off on apoptosis and nothing about the genetics of sin. It is clear you have nothing to back up your claim.

If the humans were perfect than how could they sin? You do not have to answer. I have no time to meander into your thoughts on vaccines or the Australian cattle industry or whatever else you decide to answer with.

If the genes express sin, then how were they not faulty prior to sinning. This is just circular nonsense.

You have a beautiful rest of your day.

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Deeje said:

You did not hear a word I said...I give up....

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Dan From Smithville said:

Why do you think that I do not believe we die? I have never said that nor even alluded to it. Why do you think only a Christian would know we die?

Death is the red herring that was thrown out to distract from the fact that the original claim is that sin was in our genes. Sin was the claim. Not death. Death is the result of sin. Romans 6:23.

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YoursTrue said:

I am a little surprised that you thought I am asking you if we die. No, I'm not asking you if you believe we die. The question was, why do you believe we die? So again, why do you believe we die.

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Deeje said:

@Dan From Smithville....it is a complete waste of time discussing anything with you. No matter what is presented to you, you always screw it up, turn it upside down and misinterpret what is told to you....then you start ranting about your own strawman.

Let me put this as simply as I can....Christian to Christian...OK?

God did not create defective humans...they were created absolutely sinless....’perfect’ by any definition of the word....got that?

He gave them moral qualities and certain abilities that are missing in the animal kingdom. (hence why unprovable macro-evolution is a complete contradiction of scripture, and why Christians will deny it)

Because of being the only creatures “made in God’s image and likeness”, they would use those qualities and abilities to fulfill their assignment to “fill the earth and subdue it”. All other creatures were to be “in subjection” to them. (a bit difficult if they were themselves, just evolved animals)

Their role here was to represent their Creator as caretakers and zookeepers, so that responsibility for their assignment was 100% on them. God could leave it all in their capable hands......but along with their assignment they were given the faculty of free will, a necessary element in decision making, along with the ability to foresee future outcomes of their activity. Humans alone possess the ability to imagine, along with a concept of past, present and future. No other sentient creature is like us in this respect. Our uniqueness is undeniable.

So we have this great staring point...perfect, free willed creatures given a perfect home, with perfect mortal bodies, and with the prospect of living forever on earth and extending the boundaries of their paradise home by increasing the workforce, and together, ‘subduing’ the world outside of it. There were two trees in the garden representing two options...life or death. As long as they maintained obedience, reliance and trust in their “Father”, nothing would take that idyllic existence away from them. Life from the very beginning, was conditional.

Do we have the picture so far? The prospects were wonderful.....but now we have a rebel spirit who entertained grandiose ideas about his own magnificence, who plotted a takeover. He tempted the woman to take something that did not belong to her, knowing the penalty.

Free will is under the control of its possessor, so that no one can force any human to disobey, or to do anything against their will.....hence why this rebel (identified in scripture as satan the devil) had to lie in order to temp her to commit an act that would not only separate her from her Creator, but would result in her death.

The woman was not his main target however, he used her lack of education to convince her of something that was not true, in order to coerce her husband to join her by dividing his loyalties....and it worked. As he hoped, the two were separated from their Creator and the death penalty was now implemented....in two ways apparently.

First of all, access to the physical means they had in the garden to live forever, (the tree of life) was denied (Genesis 3:22-24)....and secondly whatever means God used to ensure that his clearly stated death penalty was implemented, it was inherited by all their children, meaning that they were in some way genetically altered. There is no other way to transmit a terminal condition to all their offspring. (Romans 5:12)

So there you have it. There was no faulty genes in their creation.
The genes became faulty after they disobeyed....it was part of the penalty that has affected every single human being ever since.

Now, if you want to call yourself a “Christian” and deny all of that in order to adopt an unproven scientific theory, then that is entirely up to you. Our beliefs are our choice.

We have free will too, and we are free to exercise it....but like the original humans, we can be conned by the devil too. If people don’t believe in him, then IMV, they are sitting ducks for his lies and deceptions......it’s not like we have no warnings....the Bible is full of them.

So....that is what I believe the Bible teaches us about how it all went pear shaped, how we lost our perfection, and where the Bible goes to great lengths to explain how God gets us back to what he purposed in the beginning. (Isaiah 55:11) He always finishes what he starts, but how many will be there at the end? I believe that is up to each person’s exercise of their own free will.

Now please, can we stop this misrepresentation of what I said......?

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Dan From Smithville said:

If the humans were perfect than how could they sin?

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