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Eve and her husband.

johannes

Member
did you know; only the man was in the garden in Eden and not Eve? why do we then preach that both of them was in this garden?
Gen.2:15; and the lord god took the man and put him into the garden in Eden.
and did you know only man was driven out of the garden in Eden and not Eve?
why do we then preach that both of them were driven out of this garden?
Gen;3:24; so he drove out the man.... (from the garden in Eden.)
you can now read all about this in chapter 2 by clicking here;
http://www.johanneserasmus-johan.blogspot.com
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
i moved your thread to the biblical debates part of the forum, the part that you previously posted it under was for discussing the beliefs and traditions of noepagan and revival religions. :)
 

krashlocke

Member
johannes said:
did you know; only the man was in the garden in Eden and not Eve? why do we then preach that both of them was in this garden?
Gen.2:15; and the lord god took the man and put him into the garden in Eden.

Gen 2:22
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [c] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man (in the garden).

johannes said:
and did you know only man was driven out of the garden in Eden and not Eve?
why do we then preach that both of them were driven out of this garden?
Gen;3:24; so he drove out the man.... (from the garden in Eden.)

It is generally assumed in Gen 4 that as he is carrying on his life with Eve after his removal from the garden that she is removed as well but it's not explicitly stated.
 

johannes

Member
krashlock;
we cant asume things we must go with wat the bible says; read the following;
Who is Eden?

Eden is your physical body described from one angle; let us see if I can prove this to you.

Gen 2: 8 and the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden.
Therefore: Eden is NOT a garden, but a “garden was planted” in Eden. This garden being your five senses or your brain/face. Eastward is your face, where all of your senses meet in your brain. East is the front of your body.

The Hebrew meaning of garden is: to fence or guard or protect (the senses are there to protect us) therefore the garden is symbolized by your senses.

Verse 8 continued: and there (in the garden) He put the man who He (already) had formed, for the bible says God first created man and then the woman, a body for the man.
Verse 15: the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden in Eden (your face) to dress it and to keep it.
What does this mean?

Dress(Hebrew) = to advance, accomplish, become, bear, bestow, bring forth, prepare, enslave, keep in bondage, execute, husbandman, servant, worshipper and many more, but it speaks for itself, namely to “evolve” the human body.

To keep = to preserve (until the resurrection, until we are intelligent enough to find the way to defeat the guard of the tree of eternal life)
I can assure you the way/road is now open.

We can therefore say the garden is your head/face, and God put this spiritual man/husband in your head/face/garden to be your husband/man to advance the human body (to bring it to perfection) and to keep it alive eternally, to feed it spiritually.

Verse 10: and a river went out of Eden (your body) to water the (this) garden (in your face)

River(Hebrew) = a stream, to sparkle, to be cheerful.

To water(Hebrew) = to irrigate, cause to drink, (to supply) semen (seeds) Water is a symbol of spirit.

It is clear from this that Eden, the human body, must feed the husband/man/spirit with knowledge (from the eye/seeds) and keep him alive to sparkle and be cheerful and to supply semen.

Verse 10 continues: and from thence (the garden/face/your head) it was parted, and became into four heads (streams).

The four heads = your spinal cord, your veins, your nose or breathing channel and your gullet.

Verse 11: the name of the first is Pison, that is it, which compasseth the whole land Havilah, where there was gold.

Pison(Hebrew) = fast flowing, scattered, disperse, to spread.

Havilah (Hebrew) = circular, twist or whirl, in a circular or spiral manner, it also implicates feeling of pain, fear, grief, hope etc.

This clearly describes your brain, spinal cord, nerve system, which is fast flowing, scattered, circular, a circle, spiral etc, too and from the brain and to make you aware of pain for instance.

Verse 13: the name of the second river is Gihon. The same is it that campasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

Gihon (Hebrew) = a fountain, to gush forth, a stream, a river of paradise.

Ethiopia (Hebrew) = territory (meaning the one in command.)

This is your heart as the fountain, and the veins through your body (a circulatory system) your soul is in your blood – your “river” of paradise – happiness. Also your blood/heart is the one in “command”.

Verse 14: the name of the third river is Hiddekel, which is it that goes toward the east of Assyria.

Hiddekel(Hebrew): to sting, prickly plant (the lungs look like the leafs of a prickly plant), and big river.

Assyria(Hebrew): to be straight, collect or inhabitant

Clearly this describes your respiratory system (air pipe and lungs, which run in the front of your body, namely the east = your front.)

Verse 14 continues: and the fourth river is the Euphrates.

Euphrates (Hebrew) = to break forth, rushing, river on the east, grow, increase, bring forth.

This is your digestive system (gullet, intestines and stomach that feeds/grow)

These “river” systems/organs feed the garden in Eden (your body).
I say; your body feeds your spirits and the spirits are there to protect and advance you.

Verse 9: out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Out of the ground means “out of the body” that’s created out of soil/ground.

These trees are your five senses – sense of sound, sight, taste, smell, and touch. All of them connected to the brain (in the garden.)
We discuss these trees later on.

However, let me add this:
The tree of knowledge of good and evil was not guarded; humans have the “free choice” to eat the fruit of this tree. All of us still eat this fruit each and every day.

However: the tree of life was guarded by cherubim, which were placed at the east of the garden of Eden where man has been before God replaced him, which is the front of your face, in your brain (forehead, front part of your brain)

Now you can understand and agree that Eve was not driven out of Eden, because Eden is Eve, your physical body.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Jesus believed in a literal Adam and Eve, real people, the first people. Paul believed it, too. I believe the Garden of Eden was a real place and Adam and Eve were real people. They sinned and were made to leave the Garden of Eden. The New Testament says that by one man, Adam, sin came into the world and death by sin. (physical and spiritual), and that one man Jesus brought life into the world by living a sinless life, paying for all our sins on the cross and rising again.
 

FatMan

Well-Known Member
johannes said:
krashlock;
we cant asume things we must go with wat the bible says;

Not assuming is exactly what was done. The quote from Gen 2:22 does exactly that. How much more explicit can the explanation be that Eve was in the Garden??
 

johannes

Member
joeboonda; of cause it is real people but the first mistake we make is to think that Adam = a male person; Adam has the meaning of human, therefore any human = Adam.
the Garden is a real place, it is your body where your spiritual husband was placed in your face/brain. all your senses and spirit meet each other in your brain, read what i wrote. after the sin God "replaced" the original husband with cherubum Gen. 3:24.
in otherwords he replaced the man with something else in the brain. johan.
 

krashlocke

Member
Interesting metaphor - write a book! Please note, however, that posting the same copy/paste reply as an answer to many different questions doesn't necesarily consitute a good answer.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Jesus would disagree, he said they were made male and female, Romans would disagree, it says over and over that Adam was the first man who brought sin into the world and thereby death. Adam was a real human, not any human, he was an actual person. Do not twist the word of God. It was written that we may believe in Jesus who paid for Adam's sin and all our sin as we were born with a sin nature inherited from Adam.
 

FatMan

Well-Known Member
johannes said:
joeboonda; of cause it is real people but the first mistake we make is to think that Adam = a male person;

I actually think the first mistake is taking an interpretation of the Bible and assuming that it is correct. While you think that the Garden of Eden represents your physical body, I can make an equally "adept" assumption that the Lord God was a farmer, and planting the Garden was a literal event.

I wouldn't make either of us right. In fact, neither of us would most likely be.
 

johannes

Member
Crashlocke; your quote;{ ____________ Interesting metaphor - write a book! Please note, however, that posting the same copy/paste reply as an answer to many different questions doesn't necesarily consitute a good answer.}

Yes you are right, but I will refer you shortly to my writings, which is a manuscript at this stage. Johan.
 

johannes

Member
Joeboona: your quote;{ ; Jesus would disagree, he said they were made male and female}

Absolutely, the human or adam = male and female where the flesh represents the female and the spirit the male.

Your quote;{ Adam was the first man who brought sin}
You are wrong; it doesn’t say he is a man you did not find that in the bible.

Your quote;{ Adam was a real human, not any human, he was an actual human}
Absolutely; a human but not a male the bible don’t say that.

Your quote:{ Do not twist the word of God.}
It is not me twisting the word, it is you, because you cant give me a verse in the bible to proof you are right.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
FatMan said:
I actually think the first mistake is taking an interpretation of the Bible and assuming that it is correct.

I couldn't agree more.:)
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
johannes said:
Your quote;{ Adam was the first man who brought sin}
You are wrong; it doesn’t say he is a man you did not find that in the bible.

Really? Your Bible doesn't have a book called Romans in it? You see, Romans clearly states that Adam was a man:

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. - Romans 5, 12-14

How can you possibly read that as Adam being anything other than a man? I'm pretty sure there are other quotations one could use to prove Adam was a man according to the Bible, but that was the one that sprang to mind.

James
 

johannes

Member
James the Persian; this is where we make the mistake and believe me that is why we don’t understand the bible.
Your quote;{ Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world,}
You cannot read this as a male person. The word man has in the first place the meaning of spirit. But this verse speak about Adam and therefore it means; through one human body.
Eve is the one who sinned, meaning it was the fleshly body that has sinned and also gave to her husband/man/spirtual companion to eat.

Please read the following.
Let us now look at the creation of Adam’s spiritual half, Man the “husband” and the physical half, women the “wife”.
I firstly want to draw your attention to Gen 5:2 male and female (God) created he THEM and blessed them, and called THEIR name Adam.
What does this say? It simply says the human body’s name = Adam because God called their (Man and women’s)name Adam.
God does not say, nor did He make any difference between Adam and Eve or the female and husband as we know it to be, but called THEM Adam. The name Adam only came after the creation of Eve, before that the bible spoke about Man and women.
Although you now understand that this Adam = a male and a female part, it is actually a unit called Adam.
Therefore you Peter = Adam = 2 halves
Mary = Adam = 2 halves
But: the two halves have been created separately.
Let us now explain the creation of these 2 halves.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed manof the dust of the ground.

Gen 2: 19 Out of the ground the Lord God Formed every beast of the field…and brought them unto Adam.
Before this “man” has not yet received the name Adam, because Adam = the completed human and at this stage man did not receive a body yet, he is a spiritual being called man, without a physical body.
The meaning of dust (Hebrew): powdered – ashes- dust’s light particles, to float away as vapor – volatile.
Man is formed out of dust, not out of ground as told to us all these years.
The Hebrew meaning of ground: Soil – earth – (from its redness), and the body have been created out of soil.

Dust symbolizes the spirit of the man (an earthly spirit)
Ground symbolizes the physical body formed out of clay or soil.
It is also clear that God calls the body (a) beast Gen 2:19.
Dust (spirit) and ground (body) therefore are the 2 halves of the human body. You will agree there is a distinct difference in meaning, namely man is not formed out of ground, but out of dust, that “floats as vapor”

I hope this might help. Johan.
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
johannes said:
James the Persian; this is where we make the mistake and believe me that is why we don’t understand the bible.
Your quote;{ Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world,}
You cannot read this as a male person. The word man has in the first place the meaning of spirit. But this verse speak about Adam and therefore it means; through one human body.
Eve is the one who sinned, meaning it was the fleshly body that has sinned and also gave to her husband/man/spirtual companion to eat.

Please read the following.
Let us now look at the creation of Adam’s spiritual half, Man the “husband” and the physical half, women the “wife”.
I firstly want to draw your attention to Gen 5:2 male and female (God) created he THEM and blessed them, and called THEIR name Adam.
What does this say? It simply says the human body’s name = Adam because God called their (Man and women’s)name Adam.
God does not say, nor did He make any difference between Adam and Eve or the female and husband as we know it to be, but called THEM Adam. The name Adam only came after the creation of Eve, before that the bible spoke about Man and women.
Although you now understand that this Adam = a male and a female part, it is actually a unit called Adam.
Therefore you Peter = Adam = 2 halves
Mary = Adam = 2 halves
But: the two halves have been created separately.
Let us now explain the creation of these 2 halves.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed manof the dust of the ground.

Gen 2: 19 Out of the ground the Lord God Formed every beast of the field…and brought them unto Adam.
Before this “man” has not yet received the name Adam, because Adam = the completed human and at this stage man did not receive a body yet, he is a spiritual being called man, without a physical body.
The meaning of dust (Hebrew): powdered – ashes- dust’s light particles, to float away as vapor – volatile.
Man is formed out of dust, not out of ground as told to us all these years.
The Hebrew meaning of ground: Soil – earth – (from its redness), and the body have been created out of soil.

Dust symbolizes the spirit of the man (an earthly spirit)
Ground symbolizes the physical body formed out of clay or soil.
It is also clear that God calls the body (a) beast Gen 2:19.
Dust (spirit) and ground (body) therefore are the 2 halves of the human body. You will agree there is a distinct difference in meaning, namely man is not formed out of ground, but out of dust, that “floats as vapor”

I hope this might help. Johan.

OK, I'm unconvinced. Might I make a small suggestion? If you're going to attempt to reinterpret the plain text of the NT, you might want to consider learning some Koine. Now I'm no expert, but what little I do know of the language renders your explanation completely untenable. You appear to know even less of the language than I do, so what makes you qualified to teach me how to interpret the Biblical text?

Might I also suggest that the reason I quoted three verses of Romans was because chopping it down into an even smaller fragment, such as you have done in your answer, is completely and utterly invalid. It allows you to twist the text to mean whatever you wish it meant rather than accepting the clear meaning as predicated by context. Whilst your minute fragment may not be completely clear, the larger one I supplied certainly is. Adam is clearly identified as a man, and not just as a man, but as an individual who is compared to other individuals and even to the Incarnate Christ. Your position is utterly untenable.

James
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Could the assumptions offered in this thread be any more convoluted and obscure?
This is the kind of stuff that gives esoterica a bad name.
:sheep:
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
johannes said:
did you know; only the man was in the garden in Eden and not Eve? why do we then preach that both of them was in this garden?
Gen.2:15; and the lord god took the man and put him into the garden in Eden.
and did you know only man was driven out of the garden in Eden and not Eve?
why do we then preach that both of them were driven out of this garden?
Gen;3:24; so he drove out the man.... (from the garden in Eden.)

I don't know what you are smoking but back in the day I sure would have wanted some of it. Now if you seriously believe these things you say and are discovering them yourself then I would suggest you find a good Bible teacher. If you have a teacher and you are being taught this nonsense then you should flee. Quickly. Don't even take the time to wipe the dust off your feet.

Now to address the stupidity you are offering. Perhaps you should ponder this from Genesis 3:8 (KJV), "And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden."

Now decide how Adam's wife hid herself from the presence of the Lord amongst the trees of the garden if she was not actually in the garden.
 

FatMan

Well-Known Member
sandy whitelinger said:
Now decide how Adam's wife hid herself from the presence of the Lord amongst the trees of the garden if she was not actually in the garden.

The trees must represent the body's own defenses:p

There has actually been a couple of people who are new posters on RF who have started topics about what Genesis is telling us. Half of me thinks they are the same and come back as someone different to show "support" for the nonsensical ideas.
 
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