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Question about God and Jesus

MatthewA

Active Member
That is a good question.

God through his Word created humans.

Humans messed up; God sent his Word in which God was able to reconcile the world unto Himself, by the Lord Jesus Christ whom was the Word ~ Died on the cross, for the entire populous of earth one time. ~ He was resurrected again three days later.

God had to send His Son, ~ His Word into the World ~ To Save the world from it's sin. ~ So now every new person who is born has had their sins already forgiven. That is a relief right?

The thing is for people who grow in the knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus Christ ~ Realize that as believers - we are baptized with Christ Jesus in his death - on the cross / we believers die to our flesh and being raised again as Christ was raised from the dead, being born again and made spiritually alive we now have access to God.

Jesus Christ paid for the sins of the entire earths population. Forever.
Jesus Christ taught about the Kingdom of God was coming, and those who believe would be indwelled by the holy spirit when they believe
Even though all the sin of the entire worlds population has been paid for. Not everyone is a believer, so not everyone is saved to the Kingdom of God. ~~~ According to the Christian Scriptures.


Though I possibly may be wrong about anything stated here so please go check the bible for anything that might be out of harmony with the bible.

Take care, thank you for the question Frank Goad.

God kept His Word from the Beginning; that is why it happened like it did. That is my only conclusion for your asking of another way of doing it.
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If God is all powerful.Why did Jesus have to die on the cross for us and go through so much pain?:confused:Why didn't God make our salvation happen a different way?:(:confused:
>I've just run a thread<, on this very question and with more than 400 replies already gone, I can tell you that no one has come up with an answer appropriate to a benevolent omnipotent God.

The only ones that come near to making sense drop the benevolence bit.

There was also a total failure to respond to the proposition that human sacrifice is a moral outrage, not to be countenanced in any civilized society.

One of the things that stood out was reliance on the idea that the Garden story in Genesis is about the Fall of Man. Of course if you've read it, you'll know it never once mentions sin, original sin, the Fall of Man, death entering the world, spiritual death, the need for a redeemer. Nowhere. Not even once. In the story God states his reasons for chucking Adam and Eve out, very clearly (at Genesis 3:22-23) and they have nothing to do with sin. The idea that sin in involved appears to have risen among the Jews of Alexandria late in the 2nd century BCE, is mentioned once by Paul, but only becomes a big deal when Augustine of Hippo picks up the idea and runs with it around 400 CE. Not just nonsense but a dang pity, if you ask me.

And if you think sin can be inherited, check out Ezekiel 18:20.
 
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Neuropteron

Active Member
If God is all powerful.Why did Jesus have to die on the cross for us and go through so much pain?:confused:Why didn't God make our salvation happen a different way?:(:confused:

Hi,
Whatever means of salvation God chooses, there will always be someone questioning his decision. Nonetheless his reason for using this means of salvation is fully explained in the Bible doctrine of the ransom sacrifice (not necessarily church doctrines).

We should also keep in mind that God uses his power in a discriminatory fashion and that it is guided by love, wisdom and justice.
Additionally God determined that his power be limited by his own laws and principles.
He expects us to strive toward understanding Him, instead that we presume that He acts according to our way of thinking.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Good question, Frank!

The simple answer:
Because, just as Jehovah expects us to follow certain standards, He holds Himself to those same standards. He doesn’t “cut corners.”

If you’d like more details, I can provide more.

I’d encourage you to search “ransom” on wol.jw.org.

Take care, my cousin.
 

Vahid

Member
Let me start by saying that although Christians believe that Christ was crucified and killed, the Qur'an says that God saved Jesus and did not allow evil people to kill him.
Any way,the system of existence is the system of causes and effects, which means that every phenomenon arises from a specific cause. On the other hand, it is impossible for the phenomenon to violate its complete cause unless a new cause is created and the previous perfect cause disappears.
God is wise, and His wisdom requires that every phenomenon occur through its causes. God the Wise does not disrupt the system of Ali so that such a phenomenon does not happen. The power is to have one thing and to do another. God should not interfere in everything and change it contrary to the causal system. What is happening in the world is in accordance with the causal system, and God has willed that every phenomenon occur through its causes and with free will.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Hi,
Whatever means of salvation God chooses, there will always be someone questioning his decision. Nonetheless his reason for using this means of salvation is fully explained in the Bible doctrine of the ransom sacrifice (not necessarily church doctrines).

We should also keep in mind that God uses his power in a discriminatory fashion and that it is guided by love, wisdom and justice.
Additionally God determined that his power be limited by his own laws and principles.
He expects us to strive toward understanding Him, instead that we presume that He acts according to our way of thinking.
I think you meant to say non-discriminatory.
If so, you can edit it, and I can give it a rating. :)
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
@blü 2.... in your other thread, you got two good answers, from @Bree & @Neuropteron !


You say the Tanakh doesn’t specifically mention “original sin”. Should it? It’s sort of obvious where it started: God told A&E, “don’t”, but they did anyway.

It doesn’t specifically say who was behind the talking Serpent either. Only in Ezekiel 28, are we informed how a “cherub of Eden” became corrupt. (Revelation 12 gives some detail.)

We aren’t specifically told who was behind the turning of Pharaoh’s magic priests’ staffs into snakes, either...but again, it’s sort of obvious, when taking the entire Bible context into account. When we read the book of Job, we’re given more information about God’s Enemy. (Even Job didn’t fully understand who was causing his suffering!)

What do you think sin is? It’s ‘missing the mark’, falling short of the standards set by Jehovah God.

And physically too, our bodies ‘fall short of the mark.’ Jehovah created Adam & Eve perfect, as His children. The fact that, if they had stayed obedient, then they could’ve lived forever, is revealed in the Bible record of the long lives their immediate offspring enjoyed, even 7 generations later living over 900 years! But it gradually diminished, their genetic makeup getting further and further away from A & E’s perfect DNA.

So sin is really imperfection.... physically and spiritually.

If you read Isaiah 33:24....why will the ‘residents’, mentioned there, not get sick anymore? Because they will “pardoned for their error.”


In understanding the Scriptures, you need all of it, IMO.
It’s a manual, sort of.

To understand the correct operation of, say, a Mazda3, you can’t just use the chapter on “transmission care”, you need the other chapters on “engine maintenance”, “using cruise control”, etc. All of it.

If this post of mine is sounding disjointed, I apologize. My thoughts get ahead of my typing! I’d much rather speak, than write! Maybe @Bree , @Deeje , @Neuropteron , @nPeace, @URAVIP2ME or @Vee could elaborate (if they care to). We all “speak in agreement.” 1 Corinthians 1:10



Take care, my cousin!
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I think you meant to say non-discriminatory.
If so, you can edit it, and I can give it a rating. :)
Hey hope you are well!

No, I think he meant ’discriminatory’ in another way, as in controlling oneself.

For example, we are discriminatory in how much strength we use in picking up a baby.....we don’t use all of our strength, we’d kill it!

Take care.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Mon brave! all well, I hope?
You say the Tanakh doesn’t specifically mention “original sin”. Should it?
If the claim is made that humans are tainted with "original sin" and that this is because of the sinful conduct of Adam and Eve in Genesis' Garden story, then it seems proper to point out that Genesis' Garden story says NOTHING of the kind.

And if the claim is made that sin is inheritable, Ezekiel 18 throughout, and not least Ezekiel 18:20, says no, sin is not inheritable.

So I'd answer your question, Yes, for this claim to be sustained, "original sin" needs to be specifically mentioned in the Garden story.
It’s sort of obvious where it started: God told A&E, “don’t”, but they did anyway.
But it's sort of obvious that since (as is clearly stipulated) at all relevant times they were deliberately deprived of knowledge of good and evil, it was impossible for either of them to form an intention to do wrong, and therefore each was incapable of sin at the time each ate the fruit.
It doesn’t specifically say who was behind the talking Serpent either. Only in Ezekiel 28, are we informed how a “cherub of Eden” became corrupt.
Ezekiel 28 refers to matters that simply aren't present in the Garden story. "Iniquity was found in you" ─ "you were filled with violence" ─ "so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God" ─ "I cast you to the ground, I exposed you before kings" ─ "by the multitude of your iniquities and the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries" "I brought forth fire from the midst of you; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth" ─ "all who know you among the people are appalled at you".

Nothing of that is in the Garden story. There, Adam has no trade, is not accused of iniquities, and of course there aren't supposed to be any other humans, kings or not, to look at him.

So I don't see how that might apply. Nor do I recall ever seeing it cited as the source of the "original sin" version.
What do you think sin is? It’s ‘missing the mark’, falling short of the standards set by Jehovah God.
"Good" is what I think favors me, my family, my team, my society, the causes I believe in. (As a human I've evolved with a lot of moral tendencies appropriate to success as a gregarious primate; thus I'll favor child nurture and protection, fairness and reciprocity, respect for authority, loyalty to my group ─ and I'll dislike the one who harms.) "Bad" is what disadvantages those. "Evil" is bad,more specifically as the result of human intent. "Sin" I take it, is "evil" plus God's view that it's evil. Unfortunately, either God is a sinner, or (according to the bible) invasive war, massacre of populations, mass rape, human sacrifice, murderous religious prejudice, slavery, women as property (and more), are all "good" since God ordains them,
And physically too, our bodies ‘fall short of the mark.’ Jehovah created Adam & Eve perfect, as His children. The fact that, if they had stayed obedient, then they could’ve lived forever, is revealed in the Bible record of the long lives their immediate offspring enjoyed, even 7 generations later living over 900 years! But it gradually diminished, their genetic makeup getting further and further away from A & E’s perfect DNA
I respectfully disagree. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden for the express purpose of preventing them from becoming immortal (Genesis 3:22-23 again); and that wouldn't have been necessary if they were already immortal.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Hey hope you are well!

No, I think he meant ’discriminatory’ in another way, as in controlling oneself.

For example, we are discriminatory in how much strength we use in picking up a baby.....we don’t use all of our strength, we’d kill it!

Take care.
Oh. English. :(
 

Vahid

Member
Unlike Christianity and Judaism, Islam does not believe in original sin. The Qur'an says that Adam was created from the beginning to live and die on earth. For this reason, before the creation of man, when God informs the angels of the creation of man, God introduces the place of man's residence as the earth. (30: 2)
According to the Qur'an, the story of Adam and Eve living in Paradise and eating from the forbidden tree and exposing their nakedness was just a stage in the path of man in the path of establishment and residence on earth. That is, man was created from the beginning to live on earth, and through his establishment on earth, he went through stages such as temporary residence in a material paradise (not the promised paradise) outside the earth.

Of course, the Qur'an mentions the prohibition of Adam and Eve from eating the fruit of a particular tree, but it does not consider it a sin that is inherited to all his children, but God says: O Adam, whenever you approach this tree From here you descend to the earth, of course I know that you will finally fall from the tree at your own will and descend. Perhaps with this prohibition, God wants to show Adam that he has a cunning enemy (Satan) who does not want his good, and before he fell to earth, he experienced the painful effects of disobeying God's commands and following Satan. And experience the way of repentance.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
If God is all powerful.Why did Jesus have to die on the cross for us and go through so much pain?:confused:Why didn't God make our salvation happen a different way?:(:confused:
not only that.......God and heaven stood back

when called upon.....WHERE ARE YOU?
WHY? ....have You forsaken Me?

and if God and heaven would stand back ......say nothing
do nothing

then WHAT?.....is your expectation in YOUR last hour?
 

1213

Well-Known Member
If God is all powerful.Why did Jesus have to die on the cross for us and go through so much pain?:confused:Why didn't God make our salvation happen a different way?:(:confused:

Actually, I have understood salvation means sins are forgiven and that didn’t require death, because it was possible to forgive sins before the death.

The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
Luke 5:21-25

I think the reason why he had to die was that it was predicted to happen. Also, one reason can be this:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9

And I believe one reason why it was allowed to happen was that hen he could be raised from death, which would give courage to his disciples after that to continue. Before it, they were afraid and couldn’t have continued.

Most assuredly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.
John 12:24
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
If God is all powerful.Why did Jesus have to die on the cross for us and go through so much pain?:confused:Why didn't God make our salvation happen a different way?:(:confused:
The Bible answers that question, but in my opinion it's better for you to find the answer for yourself.
I am willing to help, if you are willing to try. :)
Are you willing to try?
 
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