What does your scripture say about non dual source of all?

Following view is articulated by the author of this page: Which Vedic claim is neither in Bible or Quran?

“Meister Eckehart of the 13th century was charged with heresy and excommunicated and the Persian Sufi Al-Hallaj of the 10th century was killed. Both had realised that they were one with the ultimate truth.

It’s really a pity that the two most powerful religions on earth do not allow any debate on what is true, but rigidly stick to their books. If they would allow a genuine debate, they might realise that the essence in all of us is indeed the same and eternal.”

Do you believe that the Bible and the Quran teach absolute dualism?

Dharmic religions have no problem with realization/liberation/mukti.

But the Bible does have one sentence, Matt 5:48, which speaks to becoming perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect which to me is a clear statement of non-dualism

sun rise said:

Dharmic religions have no problem with realization/liberation/mukti.

But the Bible does have one sentence, Matt 5:48, which speaks to becoming perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect which to me is a clear statement of non-dualism

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I always took that to be figurative, the 'Father' not being a tangible human figure.

atanu said:

Following view is articulated by the author of this page: Which Vedic claim is neither in Bible or Quran?

“Meister Eckehart of the 13th century was charged with heresy and excommunicated and the Persian Sufi Al-Hallaj of the 10th century was killed. Both had realised that they were one with the ultimate truth.

It’s really a pity that the two most powerful religions on earth do not allow any debate on what is true, but rigidly stick to their books. If they would allow a genuine debate, they might realise that the essence in all of us is indeed the same and eternal.”

Do you believe that the Bible and the Quran teach absolute dualism?

Click to expand...

Why are you trying to find Hindu concepts in an entirely unrelated family of religions??? It's okay that religions have different teachings, you know.

And Abrahamics probably are the world's biggest debaters. What do you think church councils are? We've been arguing amongst ourselves and with others since Jews came into existence, so whoever wrote that quote has no clue what they're talking about.

atanu said:

Following view is articulated by the author of this page: Which Vedic claim is neither in Bible or Quran?

“Meister Eckehart of the 13th century was charged with heresy and excommunicated and the Persian Sufi Al-Hallaj of the 10th century was killed. Both had realised that they were one with the ultimate truth.

It’s really a pity that the two most powerful religions on earth do not allow any debate on what is true, but rigidly stick to their books. If they would allow a genuine debate, they might realise that the essence in all of us is indeed the same and eternal.”

Do you believe that the Bible and the Quran teach absolute dualism?

Click to expand...

No, I don't believe that the Bible teaches absolute dualism. It does however present God in dualistic terms, as well as anthropomorphic terms. That doesn't mean however it defines or limits one's understanding of God to that mode of perception, or that those are the only ways God is presented in their scriptures. Those are like the lower rungs on a ladder to climb to higher rungs one uses on the way. Or like training wheels on a bike to give a 'sense' of what balance looks like.

Balance is a good example. You can't really teach rationally what balance is. It's experiential in nature. Same thing with nonduality. It's not an intellectually attained realization. It has to be 'sensed' by the whole being. But the problem comes when those who see themselves as in charge of the teachings themselves take these pointers as definitions of the Divine, when someone comes riding by using balance alone, instead of support wheels holding up the bike, they become disturbed and upset that others might not see what they are saying as the absolute truth of the art of bike riding. So, they try to get people afraid to try that themselves by hurling objects at them to knock them over, or possible kill them to deter others from straying from their learned teachings.

Nonduality transcends reason. But it does not transcend human experience.

atanu said:

realise that the essence in all of us is indeed the same and eternal.

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What do you mean by "essence" ?

Non-duality is something long debated in Buddhism (about 2000 years I guess). One thing agreed upon is the idea of dependent origination: that all things in the universe (including our thoughts) are dependent on other things. One could therefore say from this that the universe is non-dual because no thing exists independently.
Duality---> Samsara
Non-duality----> Nirvana

sun rise said:

Dharmic religions have no problem with realization/liberation/mukti.

But the Bible does have one sentence, Matt 5:48, which speaks to becoming perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect which to me is a clear statement of non-dualism

Click to expand...

Exactly. I would have pointed to this. Thanks.

Saint Frankenstein said:

Why are you trying to find Hindu concepts in an entirely unrelated family of religions??? It's okay that religions have different teachings, you know.

And Abrahamics probably are the world's biggest debaters. What do you think church councils are? We've been arguing amongst ourselves and with others since Jews came into existence, so whoever wrote that quote has no clue what they're talking about.

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I do not disagree.

Saint Frankenstein said:

Why are you trying to find Hindu concepts in an entirely unrelated family of religions??? It's okay that religions have different teachings, you know.

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This is a hangover from our colonial days. Some people look for approval from former masters and Europeans.

atanu said:

Do you believe that the Bible and the Quran teach absolute dualism?

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I do not believe the Tanakh teaches dualism.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Isaiah 45
5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

Zechariah 14:9
And the LORD shall be King over all the earth; In that day shall the LORD be One, and His name one.



HaSatan is simply an employee of God, who can do only what God allows him to do. He is not a fallen angel or anything of the kind, since angels have no free will. It is his job to be our tester and prosecutor, so to say. It's an ugly job, but someone has to do it.

Saint Frankenstein said:

Why are you trying to find Hindu concepts in an entirely unrelated family of religions??? It's okay that religions have different teachings, you know......

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Why do you think that religions are totally unrelated? I think that religions teach us about that which is beyond the mind-senses. Is that what underlies the mind senses different for you or me?

IndigoChild5559 said:

I do not believe the Tanakh teaches dualism.

...that God allows him to do. He is not a fallen angel or anything of the kind, since angels have no free will. It is his job to be our tester and prosecutor, so to say. It's an ugly job, but someone has to do it.

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I really do not see non-dualism in the verses that you cites.
.............

I request comments from both of you (or any other reader), if you wish so, to these two old posts.

Your sun shall no more go down. Is it because you will be awfully rich?

Will someone explain

atanu said:

I really do not see non-dualism in the verses that you cites.

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The verses I quoted make it clear that there are certain things being taught.
1. There is only one God. No other gods exist. There is not two opposing gods as in a dualistic system.
2. It even goes so far as to say "beside me there is no other." That demolishes the idea that God even has a competitor, like a certain fallen angel that everyone likes to blame.

Basically, in order to have dualism, you have to have two competing entitees. Tanakh teaches against this.

IndigoChild5559 said:

The verses I quoted make it clear that there are certain things being taught.
1. There is only one God. No other gods exist. There is not two opposing gods as in a dualistic system.
2. It even goes so far as to say "beside me there is no other." That demolishes the idea that God even has a competitor, like a certain fallen angel that everyone likes to blame.

Basically, in order to have dualism, you have to have two competing entitees. Tanakh teaches against this.

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Happy Birthday, @IndigoChild5559 . Many happy returns of the day.

Though I am a staunch nondualist, I understand the reasons for the paths of dualism. Even Hinduism has Bhakti yoga, which, as I see it, is dvaita at its core.

As I understand it, there are points in one's spiritual journey where it is easier to understand what is within (or more accurately, what one is in one's true nature) by observing it externally.

There is nothing wrong with taking something out and playing with it. Just don't forget to put it back when you're done.

atanu said:

I think that religions teach us about that which is beyond the mind-senses.

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IMHO, if a religion claims to teach what is 'beyond our mind-senses', then it surely is hocus-pocus.

IndigoChild5559 said:

The verses I quoted make it clear that there are certain things being taught.
1. There is only one God. No other gods exist. There is not two opposing gods as in a dualistic system.
2. It even goes so far as to say "beside me there is no other." That demolishes the idea that God even has a competitor, like a certain fallen angel that everyone likes to blame.

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That is 'dualism' among Gods, not two but one.
Hindu dualism is category-wise. 'God / Gods / Goddesses' and humans.
Hindu non-dualism is 'just Brahman, just all that exists - no God / Gods / Goddesses'. (There are shades in this kind of non-dualism)

Aupmanyav said:

IMHO, if a religion claims to teach what is 'beyond our mind-senses', then it surely is hocus-pocus.

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But what if one has Focus?

Aupmanyav said:

That is 'dualism' among Gods, not two but one.
Hindu dualism is category-wise. 'God / Gods / Goddesses' and humans.
Hindu non-dualism is 'just Brahman, just all that exists - no God / Gods / Goddesses'. (There are shades in this kind of non-dualism)

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And some Hindu schools have both, simultaneously. God can be this and that, not this or that.

SalixIncendium said:

But what if one has Focus?

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Salix, I do not see videos because of my hearing problem. If the video is not hocus-pocus and only focus in the first minute, I will see more of it.
I see, it is music, something that I abandoned a few years ago. I loved Western music in my youth (60's - Cliff Richard, Connie Francis), etc. For West it was perhaps 50's music. We used to get it late in India). Later I loved only Indian classical music.

Vinayaka said:

And some Hindu schools have both, simultaneously. God can be this and that, not this or that.

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You have to give it to Hindus. Their religion can never be defined.