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Is Politics the New Religion?

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
As I said in my edit, it's too simplistic and vague of a framework to adress this in depth. I believe our relationship to religion has changed, but I don't think we can say that society, as a whole, has become more or less secular as a result of it. I also think that talking about "past centuries" in this manner makes it even less useful, because our relationship with religion has, again, changed significantly at several points in the past three centuries to an extent that would probably fill volumes of discussion, and here is especially notable a pretty stark distinction between Europe and the US, urban and rural spaces, intellectuals and uneducated masses etc. that I feel is often swept under the table in favor of broad overly general statements.

This thread is specifically about the US; indeed, I think incorporating other countries or parts of the world into the discussion makes it more difficult to draw broad conclusions.

In brief, while there have been great advances in the secularization of legal frameworks in the US (Roe vs. Wade, legalization of gay marriage) we have also seen a re-emergence of political religion to an extent that had been dormant since the prohibition era, if not earlier. I am of course, referring to the great alliance of corporate-conservativism on one hand, and the religious right on the other, but there had been moral panics that had already shown the increased interconnectedness of conservative politics, suburban culture, and religiously motivated moralist zealotry.

Seems to me that what you're calling "political religion" is one aspect of what the article in the OP is referring to, though they see it on both sides of the aisle. Thanks for your thoughts, though!
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Hey RF!

op-ed from the Christian Science Monitor:

Is politics the new religion?

I think politics and religion have honestly been intertwined as long as they've been around, so I'm not sure this is entirely "new." However, it does seem like as Americans have become increasingly polarized (and less formally religious) in recent years that we often approach politics with a kind of religious zeal and dogmatism. We view those who don't think like us as evil, we listen to sources that simply reinforce our own beliefs, and we regard our view as "The Truth" and refuse to even consider that we may be wrong.

Judge not, lest ye be judged. So, how can we choose a political party if we can't judge if they are good or bad?

Each political party has good and bad aspects. (Republicans: war, greed, pollution--Democrats: abortion (sometimes of live babies), separation of church and state yet insist that evolution is taught while creationism is not). They are package deals....You can't help the poor without also allowing abortion.

Intertwining religion and politics diminishes religion. The Religious Right (which should believe "thou shalt not kill" ended up with a hot head who didn't wait to find proof of involvement in terrorism, but attacked peaceful nations and ended up killing many innocent women and children). Wars disrupt utilities, and cause resentment for centuries to come. Torture camps, though said to save lives (didn't save any lives), are strictly against God's commandments.

We've allowed Satan's fear, greed, and avid desire to destroy God's miraculous creations to cloud our judgement. President W. Bush issued Orange Alerts to get us to support his war (a war that obviously is on the side of Satan).

We should support religion without linking it to politics to avoid supporting Satan.

Now that the US has erred and warred on Iraq, it is too difficult to say "sorry" "wrong target" "wrong enemy." Each successive president thinks that the previous president was justified in attacking, so they continue the useless wars. We should bear in mind that Congress and President Bill Clinton signed the War Powers Resolution of 1998 to oust Saddam Hussein from power using propaganda.

Many put their faith in Canadian Rush Limbaugh, not realizing that he tells convincing lies to support his party.

Still others put their faith in preachers who do bad things (Reverend Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker ran off with donations for starving African kids). When we use faith, and don't require proof, we tend to make a lot of mistakes.

Many presidents hope to heal the rift in America that keeps the parties separate. How can they do that....give only half the money to the rich that they were going to give before? We either do or we do not support the tactics of the parties.

In modern times, we've seen Watergate, the Iran Contra scandal, and were lied into wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (all Republican scandals). Yet, in recent times, we see that the Democratic party is not clean either. Bernie Sanders was cheated out of office by the DNC (which should have helped his changes, not hurt them). Hillary Clinton was caught red handed getting debate questions before a debate. Hillary announced that she wanted to nuke Russia (very hot headed) for hacking her campaign manager's emails (John Podesta's). Hillary, more recently, was aghast that misinformation about the COVID vaccine was keeping some from getting the vaccine, so she suggested taking away their free speech and banning their messages from public forums. I pointed out that a charismatic leader should be able to use facts (expert opinions) and logic to convince the masses that they are wrong, and there is no need to end free speech.

Biden appears to have bribed his way to the presidency (vote for Biden and Biden will give you a COVID stimulus), and (Biden lets illegals into America later to make them citizens, so that grateful new Americans (who broke US laws by merely being in America) will later vote for Biden).

Illegal immigrants are getting food stamps, medical care, and educations, while America's homeless are being ignored. On the other hand, wouldn't Jesus feed the hungry and cure the sick, no matter who they were and no matter how rich they were?

It makes no sense to intertwine politics and religion while politicians are constantly caught cheating.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I think there are many more motivations, but among the major ones are:

-a need for affiliation, belonging to a social group
-a need for achievement
-a need for power over others
-a need for autonomy from others

These motivations occur in every society and indeed every individual, and in relation to every societal institution, e.g. religion, politics, military, etc.
the first on your list .....I see everyday
the suck up and fall in line routine
it's all a personality game
and THAT dilutes the second on your list

that last two conflict each other
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
the first on your list .....I see everyday
the suck up and fall in line routine
it's all a personality game
and THAT dilutes the second on your list

that last two conflict each other
they are among the many things that might motivate people...and SURPRISE!!! sometimes people have conflicting motivations!:confused:o_O:rolleyes: Two or more motivations that might "dilute" each other!:confused:o_O:eek::rolleyes:

Wow, what a concept!:cool:

Are you motivated to work for a paycheck? You might have a need for money!

Are you motivated to do your best at your job, and maybe in your hobbies and other activities? You might be motivated by a need for achievement!

Do you like hanging out with family and/or friends? You might have a need for affiliation!

And you can have all of them at the same time!
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Statism is a religion. Politics is the strategy of taking control of this religion. One of the protocols in politics is religion. That is just one of the strategies to ultimately take control of the main religion. "STATISM".

Any politician who masters this game can get good people to vote for and condone a million murders in the guise of anything.
Do you mean the more authoritarian forms of statism?

I looked up statism on Wikipedia but its definition was unclear to me. The opposite of statism seemed to be anarchism.

Are you an anarchist?

For reference if it helps;
Statism - Wikipedia.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I think we have to identify what is going on first.. Is it religion that is informing politics, or are political views becoming a religion?
It's not that complicated. The 'Good Christian'' hates homosexuality because it's an "abomination". A politician tells the Good Christian that his opponents support open and legal homosexuality. So the Good Christian runs to the polls to vote AGAINST those political opponents (and for the politician that politicized the Good Christian's biases). This has been going on for many decades, and so the idea and behavior has become 'part-n-parcel' of being a 'Good Christian'.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Hey RF!

I wanted to share an op-ed from the Christian Science Monitor that I think is pretty even-handed and asks a fascinating question that will interest folks from all across the political and religious landscapes:

Is politics the new religion?

I think politics and religion have honestly been intertwined as long as they've been around, so I'm not sure this is entirely "new." However, it does seem like as Americans have become increasingly polarized (and less formally religious) in recent years that we often approach politics with a kind of religious zeal and dogmatism. We view those who don't think like us as evil, we listen to sources that simply reinforce our own beliefs, and we regard our view as "The Truth" and refuse to even consider that we may be wrong.

I'm generalizing of course, but I hope you see what I mean.

What are your thoughts? Is politics a kind of religion for people? Is this good, bad, something in between?
I would say tribalism is a better descriptor than religion when it comes to politics. We are not quite back to the "son of heaven" and "the divine right of kings" tradition yet.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
It's not that complicated. The 'Good Christian'' hates homosexuality because it's an "abomination". A politician tells the Good Christian that his opponents support open and legal homosexuality. So the Good Christian runs to the polls to vote AGAINST those political opponents (and for the politician that politicized the Good Christian's biases). This has been going on for many decades, and so the idea and behavior has become 'part-n-parcel' of being a 'Good Christian'.


Surely the good Christian hates no one?

Also, not sure homosexuality and Christianity have ever actually been incompatible. If they are, someone forgot to tell Michelangelo, Caravaggio, James I...and countless others down the centuries.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Hey RF!

I wanted to share an op-ed from the Christian Science Monitor that I think is pretty even-handed and asks a fascinating question that will interest folks from all across the political and religious landscapes:

Is politics the new religion?

I think politics and religion have honestly been intertwined as long as they've been around, so I'm not sure this is entirely "new." However, it does seem like as Americans have become increasingly polarized (and less formally religious) in recent years that we often approach politics with a kind of religious zeal and dogmatism. We view those who don't think like us as evil, we listen to sources that simply reinforce our own beliefs, and we regard our view as "The Truth" and refuse to even consider that we may be wrong.

I'm generalizing of course, but I hope you see what I mean.

What are your thoughts? Is politics a kind of religion for people? Is this good, bad, something in between?

Its an interesting article and American politics and religion is of interest to someone such as myself living far away in New Zealand. Where I live and have grown up, religion and politics are very much seperate. There is little or no value assigned to declaring religious affiliation. To the contrary, when politicians openly declare their religious allegiance it can backfire badly. So although New Zealand and the USA would be considered close allies with many shared values and beliefs, identify with conservative Christianity and the uneasy relationship between religion and politics in the USA is very different from NZ.

Being Baha’i, the principles of separation of religion and politics along with avoidance of partisan politics accentuate how very different are the spheres of politics and religion.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
The crux of the article seems to be that people care too much about politics, an area that directly impacts their lives on a daily basis via the power of legislation and execution of laws, because the white middle class heretofore had it pretty swell and therefore everything had always been smooth sailing in the past, while completely ignoring that previous periods of US politics had literal wars being fought over domestic political issues.

It seems very much a bout of White middle class nostalgia for a time when that class had no interest in politics, not because politics were not polarized or partisan, but because none of the political conflicts of the day - the anti-communist witch hunts, racial segregation, the civil rights and antiwar movement, LGBT oppression - impacted White middle class social life to a significant degree.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I would say tribalism is a better descriptor than religion when it comes to politics. We are not quite back to the "son of heaven" and "the divine right of kings" tradition yet.

Although there are Christian nationalists who believe(d) that Trump was appointed by God. So those opposing Trump's presidency are actually opposing the will of God, in their minds.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
they are among the many things that might motivate people...and SURPRISE!!! sometimes people have conflicting motivations!:confused:o_O:rolleyes: Two or more motivations that might "dilute" each other!:confused:o_O:eek::rolleyes:

Wow, what a concept!:cool:

Are you motivated to work for a paycheck? You might have a need for money!

Are you motivated to do your best at your job, and maybe in your hobbies and other activities? You might be motivated by a need for achievement!

Do you like hanging out with family and/or friends? You might have a need for affiliation!

And you can have all of them at the same time!
well.....I do over achieve
much to the everyday embarassment of my coworkers

I press my trousers and shine my shoes
and my toolmaking is much above par

it would be nice to get paid what I am worth

BUT IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET!

oh sorry......a little ego slip there
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
as for politics.....yeah

I've seen the old black and white of Hitler ....rousing his followings

I have to confess.....even though I don't know German
he was a man of conviction and force
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Although there are Christian nationalists who believe(d) that Trump was appointed by God. So those opposing Trump's presidency are actually opposing the will of God, in their minds.
Trump is their Tribal "son of heaven." Those outside of the tribe are evil libtard barbarians.
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
Hey RF!

I wanted to share an op-ed from the Christian Science Monitor that I think is pretty even-handed and asks a fascinating question that will interest folks from all across the political and religious landscapes:

Is politics the new religion?

I think politics and religion have honestly been intertwined as long as they've been around, so I'm not sure this is entirely "new." However, it does seem like as Americans have become increasingly polarized (and less formally religious) in recent years that we often approach politics with a kind of religious zeal and dogmatism. We view those who don't think like us as evil, we listen to sources that simply reinforce our own beliefs, and we regard our view as "The Truth" and refuse to even consider that we may be wrong.

I'm generalizing of course, but I hope you see what I mean.

What are your thoughts? Is politics a kind of religion for people? Is this good, bad, something in between?
Yep - politics and "the science" - are forms of religion.
 
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