Brian2
Veteran Member
If you have scripture that shows that anyone prior to the day of Pentecost 33 CE, were sealed by the holy spirit to be joint heirs with Christ Jesus, then please, let's see them.
Also, if you have scripture that says persons prior to Jesus were baptized in the name of Jesus - a requirement for having access to heavenly life, then please show those scriptures.
(John 3:5) Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
(1 John 5:1) . . .Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, and everyone who loves the one who caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one.
So based on your argument here, everyone - not just Christian, because the verse did not say Christian. Where did you read Christian? Everyone - Atheist, Hindu, Muslim, Satanist.... all they have to do is believe that Jesus is the Christ, and they are born from God... Is that right. That's what you believe?
Here's what the scriptures say.
(John 3:3) In response Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
(1 Peter 1:3) Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(1 Peter 1:23) For you have been given a new birth, not by corruptible, but by incorruptible seed, through the word of the living and enduring God.
(1 John 3:9) Everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin, for His seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, for he has been born from God.
I do not have scriptures that show that people before Jesus were sealed by the Holy Spirit,,,,,,,,,,,but that does not mean that it won't happen at the judgement or even when people were judged after dying.
Heb 12:21The sight was so terrifying that even Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” 22Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,…
Not only does it show that we have spirits but it shows that the righteous (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc etc) have been made perfect. You don't become perfect by trying harder. You need to be born again and in the end you need a body that you can control with your perfected spirit, an immortal and incorruptible body,,,,,,,,a spiritual body, one that we can control by our spirit and does not control us and our actions.
John 3:3, 1Peter 1:3, 1Peter 1:23, 1John 3:9 are all scriptures where you rely on believing that they are not about Christians, just about the 144000. It is a faith in the GB and it's interpretation and not in what the Bible tells us.
1John 5:1 of course does not apply to people of any religion, it applies to those who believe Jesus is the Christ and all that implies no doubt. They, all Christians, are in the Kingdom.
Read your Bible Brian, but don't just read it. Ask for understanding, and listen to what the spirit has to say. Accept the guidance God gives through the faithful and discrete slave whom Jesus appointed. Do so humbly, and with an honest heart, and you would believe different to what you believe at present.
That's the point. Unless I believe the GB of the JWs I would not come to those conclusions. From what I see in the scriptures you give there is no direct link that shows that there are only 144,000 literally who are heirs according to the promise.
Why does the number 144,000 have to be literal? I was told by Cataway that the Book of Revelations is a symbolic book and so the New Jerusalem is not coming down from heaven as a city. This directly contradicts the scriptures. The kings of the nations are going to bring the glory of the nations to the city, New Jerusalem.
Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory. 25 Its gates will never be shut at the end of the day, because there will be no night there.…
The Heavenly Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and God and the Lamb will be in it and so the 144000 will be there and we know that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be there. (Luke 13:28)
Heb 11:11 By faith Sarah, even though she was barren and beyond the proper age, was enabled to conceive a child, because she considered Him faithful who had promised. 12And so from one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. 13All these people died in faith, without having received the things they were promised. However, they saw them and welcomed them from afar. And they acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.…
Abraham's seed who did not see the promise were as numerous as the stars in the sky and they were waiting for a new country, a heavenly one. It is a heavenly city because it comes from heaven. Enrolled in the heavens means there is a book in heaven that has names in it. A heavenly Kingdom means it is a Kingdom belonging to and set up by heaven. A heavenly calling means that we are called by heaven.