The problems with Islam and possible solutions?

danieldemol said:

Compare it to Quran 4:25;
"If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess" 1

If all believers are slaves of Allah why would it differentiate between believing slaves and believing "free" "women"

Of course this would not make sense if every reference to slaves was a reference to believers and vice versa.

Therefore it is obvious that slavery was acceptable to Muhammad in my opinion.

1 Surah 4. An-Nisaa Translation by Yusuf Ali | Islamic Reference | Alim

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danieldemol said:

Compare it to Quran 4:25;
"If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess" 1

If all believers are slaves of Allah why would it differentiate between believing slaves and believing "free" "women"

Of course this would not make sense if every reference to slaves was a reference to believers and vice versa.

Therefore it is obvious that slavery was acceptable to Muhammad in my opinion.

1 Surah 4. An-Nisaa Translation by Yusuf Ali | Islamic Reference | Alim

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stevecanuck said:

And then there's:

23:6 (regarding abstinence from sex) - "Pickthall: Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy".

70:30 (same subject) - "Pickthall: Save with their wives and those whom their right hands possess, for thus they are not blameworthy".

24:31 - "Muhammad Sarwar: Tell the believing woman to cast down their eyes, guard their chastity, and not to show off their beauty except what is permitted by the law. Let them cover their breasts with their veils. They must not show off their beauty to anyone other than their husbands, father, father-in-laws, sons, step-sons, brothers, sons of brothers and sisters, women of their kind, their slaves".

24:32 - "And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves".

24:33 - "Pickthall: And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom".

2:178 - "O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave".

4:92 - "If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough)".

5:89 - "So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your [own] families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave".

I believe there are more. It's very clear that Muslims were (are) allowed to have slaves.

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Link said:

Good question, that is one translation. Another can be said, "if any of you can't have sex with married women from believers (ie. because you can't marry one, don't have the means) then (have sex) from who your oaths given authority (in terms of sex) with (ie. Muta) from your believing servants (to God) by the permission of their families, this is for who fears a curse (ie. can't stop their desires) and if you are patient, it is better for you indeed God is forgiving compassionate"

The verse (4:24) before, introduces Muta so it's explaining, in which condition it is to be done and what's the purpose of God introducing Muta in the Quran which is the 2nd form of malakat aymanikum, while marriage is the first form.

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Link said:

Good question, that is one translation. Another can be said, "if any of you can't have sex with married women from believers (ie. because you can't marry one, don't have the means) then (have sex) from who your oaths given authority (in terms of sex) with (ie. Muta) from your believing servants (to God) by the permission of their families, this is for who fears a curse (ie. can't stop their desires) and if you are patient, it is better for you indeed God is forgiving compassionate"

The verse (4:24) before, introduces Muta so it's explaining, in which condition it is to be done and what's the purpose of God introducing Muta in the Quran which is the 2nd form of malakat aymanikum, while marriage is the first form.

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Link said:

Ooops I forgot the line "and if they do a immoral act (sexually) they will have half the punishment of a married women"

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danieldemol said:

I'd be interested to see how you interpret 4:24, because according to Yusuf Ali it says;

'Also (prohibited are) women already married except those whom your right hands possess. Thus hath Allah ordained (prohibitions) against you: except for these all others are lawful provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property desiring chastity not lust.'

Does this mean you can practice temporary marriage with an already married Muslim woman?

It makes more sense in the context of a slave taken as a war captive.

In my opinion.

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danieldemol said:

But if nikah mutah literally "pleasure marriage"1 is a type of marriage why would their punishment be half? This makes sense in the context of compassion for a slave taken as a war captive from her husband.

In my opinion.

1 Nikah mut'ah - Wikipedia

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Link said:

Because as the verse explains, Muta is for who fears a curse and don't have the means to get married. Their desires are hard to control, it's the reason why they are resorting to Muta, and so it make sense they face 40 days house arrest while other women 80 days, because, of their poverty situation and circumstances.

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danieldemol said:

Why are the desires of those who engage in Mutah harder to control than those who engage in regular marriage?

How does poverty and circumstances have an effect on one's ability to control their desires in this context?

Please explain.

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Link said:

Good question, that is one translation. Another can be said, "if any of you can't have sex with married women from believers (ie. because you can't marry one, don't have the means) then (have sex) from who your oaths given authority (in terms of sex) with (ie. Muta) from your believing servants (to God) by the permission of their families, this is for who fears a curse (ie. can't stop their desires) and if you are patient, it is better for you indeed God is forgiving compassionate"

The verse (4:24) before, introduces Muta so it's explaining, in which condition it is to be done and what's the purpose of God introducing Muta in the Quran which is the 2nd form of malakat aymanikum, while marriage is the first form.

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stevecanuck said:

You contradict yourself. "women from believers" and "believing servants (to God)" both mean the same thing. They mean Muslim women.

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Link said:

What do you mean? I don't understand the point you trying to make.

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Link said:

(1) Cutting off their hand, is metaphorical prose. It means prevent them from stealing until they repent and reform themselves.
(2) Slavery was never allowed. What was to be done with war captives, was they were to be ransomed or freed during war but once the war terminates, there are no captives, and hence all to be freed. Malakat aymanihim refers to marriage and muta, and when put side to side with marriage, is hence, referring to Muta.
(3) If verses can seen not to cancel one another, but in light of each other, explain one another, then the latter should be upheld. The punishment for adultery per one verse means confining them to their house till death takes them or God finds a way out for them. It's possible lashes is metaphorical and refers to the amount of time required to be in the house. Each day, is hence, metaphorically a lash. The verses then would be saying the same thing, one from view point of how many days, and the other from the general vantage point and where about. The other requirement is that believers ought to witness their punishment and hence, their identity revealed in public and their sin become known.
(4) Verses about apostates, shows, if they are not fighting the believers of that time, and offer peace, to be let go.
(5) The reason why women get less inheritance, is obvious, the man is required to give dowry to a woman, and at the same time, God wants men less influenced by the wealth of the women when seeking a woman, but not the other way. There are reasons for that, but mainly, to do a lot with how women judge character better and read emotions better. Men are already influenced primarily by looks, while women by character, and hence adding wealth motivation for men regarding women, will make a bad situation worse.
(6) The reason why a woman is emphasized to seek a 2nd witness in particular case (this doesn't refer to witnessing crimes), is because women brains work differently in memory and remember things by association better and are better emotionally for that. One woman can easily remind another woman if they were both there, while, if a man forgot something, chances are another man reminding him of it, will make him assume the other man is lying (in the case of financial dealings and money).
(7) The reason why hell is forever and harsh, is because, God is the severest in punishing where it's proper, just as he is the most compassionate and forgiving in places of compassion and mercy. This easily seen as everything comes from God, even anger yet anger because it's used selfishly often and out of Satanic or irrational reasons has a bad reputation. But Anger and retribution, itself, has a proper place as well.
(8) Why disbelievers deserve it is because goodness is love that is guided and loves things as they truly are and seeks to know God and his beloved chosen and the believers. The opposite is hate and envy towards God's light, and the holy kings and their believers. The latter deserves hell as it's oppressive, dark ,and evil.

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Barry Johnson said:

The problem with Islam is it leads you away from the biblical Jesus. It leads to hell according to the bible.

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Link said:

The verse (4:24) before, introduces Muta

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stevecanuck said:

All of which is mind-boggling to the average atheist. Nobody ever asked to be born, yet here we are having to choose which version of god to believe in to avoid hell. Islam absolutely consigns every single non-Muslim to an eternity of being burned alive over and over and over for eternity just because we don't take Mohamed's word for it that he had all the answers. Meanwhile, Christians say heaven is only attainable through Jesus. Both religions rely 100% on faith, which is mostly held based on which religion you were born into. How absurd can you get?

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