• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

A new concept of divine justice

David

Member
I've been a Christian all my life and I have rejected fundamentalism. But I have maintained a faith of sorts. I no longer believe in the bible as infallibe. But I believe in God. I'm not foolish enough to think that the God I conceieve of is actually the same as my conceptions of him/her but I believe in one way or another.

Here is a concept of the justice of God that is so far removed from traditional Christianity as to be considered heretical, but I find that I am really liking it and that my understanding of the moral principles of the universe have been made much more plain. I would like you to tell me how this concept sounds. When you read Joshua Ben Adam, understand it to mean Jesus. Thank you.

...........................................................................................................

No Pay Back Justice: No Atonement in Ben Adam's Teaching

"You have learned that they were told, "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.'" But what I tell you is this: Do not set yourself against the man who wrongs you. If someone slaps you on the right cheek turn and offer him your left. If a man wants to sue you for your shirt, let him have your coat as well. If a man in authority makes you go one mile, go with him two. Give when you are asked to give and do not turn your back on a man who wants to borrow. You have learned that they were told, "Love your neighbor, hate your enemy..."

"...But what I tell you is this: Love your enemies and pray for your persecutors; only so can you be children of your heavenly Father, who makes his sun rise on the good and bad alike, and sends the rain on the honest and the dishonest. If you love only those who love you, what reward can you expect? Surely the tax-gatherers do as much as that. And if you greet only your brothers, what is there extraordinary about that? Even the heathen do as much. There must be no limit to your goodness, as your heavenly Father's goodness knows no bounds..." (Matthew 38-4
icon_cool.gif


In these sayings, Joshua is not indulging in some nice little moralisms. In these words, backed up by actions and parables which turn all canons of accepted justice on its head, ben Adam sets himself to pull down the entire world order which has pay-back justice, retaliation, getting even, revenge and blood atonement at its heart.

Ben Adam stood in the tradition of the Old Testament prophets who repudiated the blood sacrifices. They called for human compassion and social justice. So did Joshua, but he went to the heart of the matter by setting aside the whole notion of atonement. You will not practice pay-back justice, says Joshua, because God does not practice that kind of justice. He showers his gifts on the just and the unjust alike. He keeps no score of wrongs, holds no grudges and does not balance his accounts by returning evil for evil. He does not keep a black book to record our debts, and does not expect repayment for his scandalous generosity to the least deserving. Like the father of the prodigal son, he abandons concern for his own honor. He throws away all caution about his good reputation because he is moved totally by love, a forgiving heart and a reckless generosity that tosses out all known canons of justice.

Everybody in Joshua's day lived in a match-box sized universe in matters of space and time. But he challenged the match-box sized moral order of his age, a world of tit for tat and a God who was a penny-pinching debt collector or celestial Shylock who insisted in having his pound of flesh.

If you behave like God, says Joshua, you will genuinely love and help those who try to harm you. Instead of even a thought about pay-back justice, you will freely forgive. There must be no limit on how many times you forgive, nor any limit on the size of the debt you forgive.

Furthermore, you must not wait until your debtor repents for his wrong and begs your forgiveness, but from your heart you must forgive him even while he rains his blows upon you. This Joshua did in his dying agonies when with his last breath he asked God to forgive his heartless tormentors.

This he also did when he welcomed dishonest tax collectors, prostitutes and power-holders to his table. Such ready acceptance so moved one hardened scoundrel named Zacchaeus that he openly announced he would change his evil ways.

There is nothing in Joshua ben Adam's whole character and teaching that could give support to a world-view, especially the Christian one, which has atonement (pay-back justice) at the center of it. The man was a giant, of colossus on the landscape of history. He had a new vision of humanity, a new vision of God and a totally new world-view. Atonement or pay-back justice had no place in his view of interpersonal relationships, whether those relationships be between one human party and another or between the human party and God.

If you liked this idea here is more from the same series of essays. http://www.freechristians.com/Robert_D_Brinsmead/the_scandal_of_joshua_ben_adam.htm
_________________
 

iris89

Active Member
True Christianity is all about love, 1 st. love for the Creator, Jehovah God, and second love for one's fellow man. You can not love God whom you can not see if you do not at first love your fellow man whom you can see. When Jesus Christ was asked what is the greatest commandment, he answered, “Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 22:36-40 AV). The Holy Bible plainly shows we should not judge our neighbors, but love them. This does not mean loving their sin. Matthew 7:1-2, states, "Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged," and Romans 14:4, 10-13, "Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God can make him stand. But why do you judge your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God... Therefore let us not be judging one another any longer," this plainly shows no true Christian should be executing judgment on anyone with respect sin. In fact this would be a usurping of God's exclusive right, i.e., blaspheme, Matthew 25:31-32 states, "When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." Second, we should be loving our neighbors and attempting to get them to turn away from sin, not judging, hurting, or killing them in violation of God's law. Luke 10:27 states, "....You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." Matthew 5:21-22 clearly states this devine principle, "....'You must not murder; but whoever commits a murder will be accountable to the court of justice.' However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother (neighbor) will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court (God's court, not the Supreme Court of the US); whereas whoever says, 'You despicable fool! will be liable to the fiery Gehenna. (often mistranslated as hell)." Third, We should be helping our neighbor not harming him/her in one way or another. Now a question, why do many individuals seek to run others down or harm them when they are not endangering them? Please do a little Biblical research and see if you can uncover the root cause. If you would like, I could arrange for a qualified individual to study the Bible with you one-on-one at your home or do so my self by email, you can contact me at [email protected]

Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 
Top