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Is there Nothing? An argument for a Universal Consciousness

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
noth·ing
/ˈnəTHiNG/


pronoun



  1. not anything; no single thing.
    "I said nothing"


    Similar:

    not a thing
    not a single thing
    not anything
    nothing at all
    nil
    zero

Nothing, as a literal concept, is the lack of something. You cannot portray nothing in physical reality because it simply isn't there. Nothing is a personified form of something that doesn't exist, but if that's all nothing is, then how can 'nothing' be said to exist?

And if nothing doesn't exist, what is death? It can't be oblivion, which would be nothing. And the idea of an afterlife? That's a hell of a claim. At least 'nothing' can be represented mathematically, but an afterlife? The only way that's been ventured to us is through fables and claims - all of which could be lies. Besides, we already know that brain damage can cause unconsciousness or affect our consciousness in certain ways; therefore it seems logical to me that the death of the brain would follow with the death of our consciousness.

So, then, assuming we do not go anywhere when we die and then, based on my proposition that 'nothing' doesn't exist - what is left? That death is an illusion. If there is no 'nothing', and there can never be 'nothing', there is not a thing that truly ever dies and "disperses into" (for the lack of a better phrase) nothing - anything that can be said to die is an illusion, a falsehood. This clump of matter and mind that you, through your illusory mind, labeled as (Your Name) is impermanent only because it's an idea.

Ideas hold no concrete reality to begin with, they were already 'nothing', and thus they can die and become lost in transition. The real you: the self-awareness, or perhaps even beneath that, is everlasting. It is the universe observing itself, a panpsychic-like consciousness. The fact that you have been illusioned into thinking you're (Your Name) and that you have an ego is strong evidence that the universe does look in on itself and can be illusioned. It's strong evidence, in my opinion, that the universe has an overarching consciousness that we all call 'I'.

This applies to everything in the universe. Ice 'dies' when it becomes water, a phone 'dies' when it is smashed to pieces, planets 'die' when they are consumed by the star it revolved around... but these are all just formations, formations defined by minds that are illusioned by separateness.

From all of this I gather that the ONE and ONLY thing that exists is Change; pure, formless Change always labeling itself 10,000 times over. I gather that this Change is alive in some way and it's at the root of all conscious beings.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Humanity is instilled with the capacity to make meaning. Humans are in fact meaning itself born alive in this ever-changing universe. Our intellect is far more important than digestion. Humans are born to be self identifying. Names are not important but the capacities we have are.

Popular it is to say consciousness dies. How did consciousness arise in the first place. Memory, conception, identification, awareness, reason, logic are more than conceptions; they are capacities of a reality. No fluke.

The universe makes us to mind and create purposes and functions. Existence wants to know itself, and find value in living so it makes us. The human body itself is a conception.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
noth·ing
/ˈnəTHiNG/


pronoun



  1. not anything; no single thing.
    "I said nothing"


    Similar:

    not a thing
    not a single thing
    not anything
    nothing at all
    nil
    zero

Nothing, as a literal concept, is the lack of something. You cannot portray nothing in physical reality because it simply isn't there. Nothing is a personified form of something that doesn't exist, but if that's all nothing is, then how can 'nothing' be said to exist?

And if nothing doesn't exist, what is death? It can't be oblivion, which would be nothing. And the idea of an afterlife? That's a hell of a claim. At least 'nothing' can be represented mathematically, but an afterlife? The only way that's been ventured to us is through fables and claims - all of which could be lies. Besides, we already know that brain damage can cause unconsciousness or affect our consciousness in certain ways; therefore it seems logical to me that the death of the brain would follow with the death of our consciousness.

So, then, assuming we do not go anywhere when we die and then, based on my proposition that 'nothing' doesn't exist - what is left? That death is an illusion. If there is no 'nothing', and there can never be 'nothing', there is not a thing that truly ever dies and "disperses into" (for the lack of a better phrase) nothing - anything that can be said to die is an illusion, a falsehood. This clump of matter and mind that you, through your illusory mind, labeled as (Your Name) is impermanent only because it's an idea.

Ideas hold no concrete reality to begin with, they were already 'nothing', and thus they can die and become lost in transition. The real you: the self-awareness, or perhaps even beneath that, is everlasting. It is the universe observing itself, a panpsychic-like consciousness. The fact that you have been illusioned into thinking you're (Your Name) and that you have an ego is strong evidence that the universe does look in on itself and can be illusioned. It's strong evidence, in my opinion, that the universe has an overarching consciousness that we all call 'I'.

This applies to everything in the universe. Ice 'dies' when it becomes water, a phone 'dies' when it is smashed to pieces, planets 'die' when they are consumed by the star it revolved around... but these are all just formations, formations defined by minds that are illusioned by separateness.

From all of this I gather that the ONE and ONLY thing that exists is Change; pure, formless Change always labeling itself 10,000 times over. I gather that this Change is alive in some way and it's at the root of all conscious beings.

Call it the change "entropy" and you have a winner

But atoms remain, every atom in your body will remain to combine with other atoms to create something new in the future, maybe a puff of air, a blade of grass, a new life, maybe human. In this way we are all made of dead people.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I think therefore I am..........Descartes

Right now, there can not be 'nothing'.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It's strong evidence, in my opinion, that the universe has an overarching consciousness that we all call 'I'.
From all of this I gather that the ONE and ONLY thing that exists is Change; pure, formless Change always labeling itself 10,000 times over. I gather that this Change is alive in some way and it's at the root of all conscious beings.
Yes, each part of the universe reacts to whatever happens anywhere else in the universe. But the universe is not conscious of it. It happens automatically, we can say according to laws of physics.
And yeah, change is the only constant. It is the inherent property of what exists in the universe.

hqdefault.jpg
 

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
Call it the change "entropy" and you have a winner

But atoms remain, every atom in your body will remain to combine with other atoms to create something new in the future, maybe a puff of air, a blade of grass, a new life, maybe human. In this way we are all made of dead people.

I highly dispute the idea that we are 100% material.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Humanity is instilled with the capacity to make meaning. Humans are in fact meaning itself born alive in this ever-changing universe. Our intellect is far more important than digestion. Humans are born to be self identifying. Names are not important but the capacities we have are.

Popular it is to say consciousness dies. How did consciousness arise in the first place. Memory, conception, identification, awareness, reason, logic are more than conceptions; they are capacities of a reality. No fluke.

They are a reality in the present moment, as long as we consider them to be. In the grand scheme of things, how real are they considering they're impermanent? Ice is a reality on our level, but on a microscopic level it is not and on a macroscopic level it is not. Things are defined relative to that which perceives them; objectively, though, there are no 'things' except for this constant state of Change.

The universe makes us to mind and create purposes and functions. Existence wants to know itself, and find value in living so it makes us. The human body itself is a conception.
Are you agreeing with me that existence is looking in on itself? I'm uncertain if existence has a desire to know itself, or any desire at all honestly, or if existence is just aware of itself naturally through these subjective lenses we call ourselves. In either case, our minds are just a lens that the universe perceives itself through - therefore illusory.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Call it the change "entropy" and you have a winner
Could you explain what you mean by entropy?

But atoms remain, every atom in your body will remain to combine with other atoms to create something new in the future, maybe a puff of air, a blade of grass, a new life, maybe human. In this way we are all made of dead people.
Atoms change and decay over time too, don't they?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Yes, each part of the universe reacts to whatever happens anywhere else in the universe. But the universe is not conscious of it. It happens automatically, we can say according to laws of physics.
And yeah, change is the only constant. It is the inherent property of what exists in the universe.

hqdefault.jpg
I'm not trying to argue that the universe changes mindfully, but that it is aware of its change through the lenses of conscious beings. The fact that consciousness exists, I feel, is evidence that awareness is an integral part of existence.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Could you explain what you mean by entropy?


Atoms change and decay over time too, don't they?

Entropy is a thermodynamic property describing the gradule decline from order to disorder.

Generally do not decay, radioactive elements will emit particles and converts to a lower order element. It will however never decay to nothing.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I'm not trying to argue that the universe changes mindfully, but that it is aware of its change through the lenses of conscious beings. The fact that consciousness exists, I feel, is evidence that awareness is an integral part of existence.
I have seen no such evidence of consciousness, therefore I differ. What humans think of change is immaterial. What they feel disappears after their death.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I have seen no such evidence of consciousness, therefore I differ. What humans think of change is immaterial. What they feel disappears after their death.
I recall an argument in response to the 'Fine-Tuned Argument' that has some relevance here: The Fine-Tuned argument, to oversimplify it, is the argument that God must exist because the conditions set forth in our universe (or at least our place in it) happened to be just right for life. If the Earth was any further from the Sun, it'd be too cold for life. If the Earth was any closer, it'd be too warm. (I'm not sure if that's the actual argument, but it's the same concept)

The response to this argument is: the reason we are here is not based on coincidental conditions at all; life can only be present in the areas of the universe where the conditions are suitable for life, it's only logical that the conditions around us must be suitable for life, otherwise we would not be able to propose the "coincidence" in the first place. Therefore there is no "what a coincidence the conditions were just right for life".

Life cannot exist where the conditions are not suitable, and 'you' cannot exist where there is no consciousness. For the same reason you weren't just "lucky" to get to experience existence, you literally couldn't have not been born - you couldn't have been "born" an inanimate object. 'You' can only exist where there is Being. You are, therefore, never Not Being.

The personality we develop in our life, the ego and the mind and the feelings and thoughts... they are impermanent, but the driver behind it all HAD to exist.

Being must work much like electricity in that it follows the path of least resistance. It goes where it can, and it more so will go where there is more gradient. Electricity follows all paths and those with lesser resistance get more current, until there are no more charge carriers available. Being, similarly, can only be present in places of the universe where the universe can pick up information about itself (conscious beings).

We cannot forget that the five senses on every human's body is also a sense of the universe itself.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
.. and 'you' cannot exist where there is no consciousness. We cannot forget that the five senses on every human's body is also a sense of the universe itself.
False argument, no evidence. Brain developed some 700 million years ago in an earthworm like organism. Life was present even before that. This is an argument like God of Gaps. 'Since the universe exists, there must be a God'. Logic, science and atheists do not accept such arguments. Senses are because of evolution and with limitations, just enough for our survival, which was the sole purpose of evolution.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
False argument, no evidence. Brain developed some 700 million years ago in an earthworm like organism. Life was present even before that. This is an argument like God of Gaps. 'Since the universe exists, there must be a God'. Logic, science and atheists do not accept such arguments. Senses are because of evolution and with limitations, just enough for our survival, which was the sole purpose of evolution.
But if we are a part of the universe, and we are aware of the universe, how are we not the universe looking in on itself? :S
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
False argument, no evidence. Brain developed some 700 million years ago in an earthworm like organism. Life was present even before that. This is an argument like God of Gaps. 'Since the universe exists, there must be a God'. Logic, science and atheists do not accept such arguments. Senses are because of evolution and with limitations, just enough for our survival, which was the sole purpose of evolution.
@Aupmanyav your reply made me a bit curious about something :)
To an atheist, what is the sole purpose of human life?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
But if we are a part of the universe, and we are aware of the universe, how are we not the universe looking in on itself? :S
Yeah, we are none other than the stuff of the universe. All things, without exception, that exists in the universe also are just the same. That is the premise in non-dual Hinduism. None of the stuff that constitutes us gets extinguished upon our death. It is chemically recycled into new things. As for our awareness / consciousness, that lasts only till our life.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
@Aupmanyav your reply made me a bit curious about something :)
To an atheist, what is the sole purpose of human life?
Why, Conscious Thoughts. I have mentioned the purpose of life in various topics as other atheists also have done. The purpose of life is to fulfill our obligations to family, society and our country. In Hinduism, we call it 'dharma'. For atheists, there is no obligation towards any God or Allah.
So, I have cared for my family, sent off my mother at the age of 98 peacefully, raised my children to the best of my ability, cared and still caring for my wife after 54 years of marriage (as she too has done for me). I have three grandchildren. One has professional qualifications (dentist), the other is starting on it (18, finishing his school, will perhaps join law), and the third is just 9. In India, we have joint families, i.e., my son and his family (wife, two grandson's) live with us. I have handed over what I owned to my son and issued clear instructions about how he should dispose my body upon my death. So my work in life is over, apart from enjoying my time with family. It could be 3 years or 13 years, that does not matter anymore.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Why, Conscious Thoughts. I have mentioned the purpose of life in various topics as other atheists also have done. The purpose of life is to fulfill our obligations to family, society and our country. In Hinduism, we call it 'dharma'. For atheists, there is no obligation towards any God or Allah.
So, I have cared for my family, sent off my mother at the age of 98 peacefully, raised my children to the best of my ability, cared and still caring for my wife after 54 years of marriage (as she too has done for me). I have three grandchildren. One has professional qualifications (dentist), the other is starting on it (18, finishing his school, will perhaps join law), and the third is just 9. In India, we have joint families, i.e., my son and his family (wife, two grandson's) live with us. I have handed over what I owned to my son and issued clear instructions about how he should dispose my body upon my death. So my work in life is over, apart from enjoying my time with family. It could be 3 years or 13 years, that does not matter anymore.
Answer to the why: Because @Conscious thoughts still have curiousity about others way of thinking :)
 
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