Apologies

So, I wanted to drop an apology. Partially, towards @Deeje , or anyone else who has asked about my Religious views previously, and I avoided direct responses.

I tend to give curt/obfuscated replies when it comes to people asking about my Religion as a Pagan, and I play my cards close to my chest more often then not, only giving out as much information as I feel is necessary.

This is a defense tactic. Thanks to past experiences with people being twats about my views, being purposely confrontational about it, or just gemerall trying to demonize my position.

So, I tend not to trust my ability to discern people's intentions in this regard.

I am trying to be better about this, by reminding myself that I am not a mind reader, and can only judge about what actually occurs, and not what I "think" is occuring.

Apologies,
The Hammer

You're not the only one. I've noticed since I've identified as a Pagan that some folks think I'm an atheist, while others, on learning my religion, have been like, 'Bye, thanks for your time'.

It is incredibly irritating. I feel your pain.

The Hammer said:

So, I wanted to drop an apology. Partially, towards @Deeje , or anyone else who has asked about my Religious views previously, and I avoided direct responses.

I tend to give curt/obfuscated replies when it comes to people asking about my Religion as a Pagan, and I play my cards close to my chest more often then not, only giving out as much information as I feel is necessary.

This is a defense tactic. Thanks to past experiences with people being twats about my views, being purposely confrontational about it, or just gemerall trying to demonize my position.

So, I tend not to trust my ability to discern people's intentions in this regard.

I am trying to be better about this, by reminding myself that I am not a mind reader, and can only judge about what actually occurs, and not what I "think" is occuring.

Apologies,
The Hammer

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You're not alone, and I'd suggest that discretion is the better part of valor, even and maybe even especially online...

I don't currently identify as Pagan, but did so for many years.

The other day on another thread, it came to my realization that while I haven't currently faced discrimination as a Hindu, I often did as a Pagan, and it made me pause and just wonder "what the...?"

I think there is a lot of misinformation, some unintentional, but some intentional out there about what Paganism is. And honestly, due to prejudices, some people aren't interested in learning.

Being as Paganism has only come to the public eye in recent decades, I hope this resolves, and Paganism is able to take its place in the scheme of things without prosecution or insults. They have a lot they can teach the world.

JustGeorge said:

I don't currently identify as Pagan, but did so for many years.

The other day on another thread, it came to my realization that while I haven't currently faced discrimination as a Hindu, I often did as a Pagan, and it made me pause and just wonder "what the...?"

I think there is a lot of misinformation, some unintentional, but some intentional out there about what Paganism is. And honestly, due to prejudices, some people aren't interested in learning.

Being as Paganism has only come to the public eye in recent decades, I hope this resolves, and Paganism is able to take its place in the scheme of things without prosecution or insults. They have a lot they can teach the world.

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in my experience, many Christians assume that pagans are devil-worshippers...and treat them accordingly...

beenherebeforeagain said:

in my experience, many Christians assume that pagans are devil-worshippers...and treat them accordingly...

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When I was young, my dad's pastor wanted to learn more about Paganism. Much to my surprise, his interest was genuine. I didn't drive, so my dad took me to see him(I think we met twice), but because it wasn't about him, he just sat in the corner while we discussed. We had some good and meaningful conversations. He thanked me for the information, and my dad drove me home.

This was the first time my dad was ever forced to actually be quiet and listen instead of shout over me,(in attempts to explain my own beliefs to me). The first thing he said when we got in the car was "I thought you worshipped the devil, but apparently, that's not true."

The Hammer said:

So, I wanted to drop an apology. Partially, towards @Deeje , or anyone else who has asked about my Religious views previously, and I avoided direct responses.

I tend to give curt/obfuscated replies when it comes to people asking about my Religion as a Pagan, and I play my cards close to my chest more often then not, only giving out as much information as I feel is necessary.

This is a defense tactic. Thanks to past experiences with people being twats about my views, being purposely confrontational about it, or just gemerall trying to demonize my position.

So, I tend not to trust my ability to discern people's intentions in this regard.

I am trying to be better about this, by reminding myself that I am not a mind reader, and can only judge about what actually occurs, and not what I "think" is occuring.

Apologies,
The Hammer

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I am humbled by your apology Hammer.....thank you, but it wasn’t really necessary.......we can all hold our views and be passionate about them, but each one of us has free will to make our own choices.

When one has an important decision, such as how to express their own spirituality, (or lack of it) informed choice is the only one worth making. To provide information is really helpful IMO and then ignorance is dispelled and views in their totality can be evaluated.

Seeing things from all sides and gaining a truthful view of how the various views resonate with us, takes an honest approach but we have to be able to stand up to criticism, otherwise we become blind to reality, and that does not serve any of us well. If we can’t defend our position, then all it becomes is an invisible security blanket. Knowing what you believe, and having the courage of our convictions, gives us confidence. Doubts just create insecurity....a place to visit, but not a good place to live....

I hope everyone finds what their heart is looking for.

I'm pagan and atheist. And my gf has Christian beliefs. She is trying to convert me.

I guess that all puts me in rare company.

My spiritual convictions are very minimal though.

beenherebeforeagain said:

in my experience, many Christians assume that pagans are devil-worshippers...and treat them accordingly...

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One of the few things I remember about high school was after I told someone I thought was a friend that I quit being Christian and became a Pagan, this "friend" started telling me I was possessed by a demon. The church told me often and frequently that the world was out to get Christians and persecuting them all over the place. But I never knew anything of it until that moment.
I was also warned by people running the Pagan shop in town to practice caution when wearing a pentagram in public, and I may consider wearing it in my shirt which many did. I didn't. I don't recall anyone saying anything to me over it, but I did get some nasty glares.
On my car, I had a bumper sticker saying something about goddess bless America. My car got dinged and scratched up some.
This was 15-20 years ago. Doesn't seem like though things have changed, a lot hasn't.

Shadow Wolf said:

I told someone I thought was a friend that I quit being Christian and became a Pagan, this "friend" started telling me I was possessed by a demon.

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Stuff like this truly perplexes me. This strikes me as a cult mentality.

osgart said:

I'm pagan and atheist. And my gf has Christian beliefs. She is trying to convert me.

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Just out of curiosity, what ‘kind’ of “Christianity” is she trying to convert you to? What does the word mean to you...and to her?

I guess that all puts me in rare company.

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I was married to an unbeliever for over 40 years. My choice to become a Christian came soon after we married. It was difficult at first, but in time as my new faith became more routine, we both adjusted to the situation and it all worked out. He was not a spiritual person, but that did not affect my relationship with him. He allowed me my freedom to live as I chose, and I did the same to him. It’s about mutual respect. If he had manifested any spiritual interest, it would have surfaced sooner or later.....but it never did, and that was his choice.

Having said that, our marriage would have been so much better if we had shared spiritual values and been able to worship together. But raising our children with both views was a good education for them. Both chose to stay with my faith.

When we lost him, it was not a religious funeral, as that would have been hypocritical, but a member of my brotherhood (whom he considered a friend) conducted the service as a celebration of his life.

My spiritual convictions are very minimal though.

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A spiritual appetite is sometimes hidden in us....but once awakened, it can be surprisingly demanding. I never knew I was spiritually hungry until I started asking questions and getting answers....the more answers I got, the more questions I had....I became aware of my spiritual capacity for the first time. I discovered that my appetite for spiritual things is never satisfied, and with each ‘mouthful’ I gain strength. It’s an ongoing process.....and thankfully, I see no end in sight.

Deeje said:

Just out of curiosity, what ‘kind’ of “Christianity” is she trying to convert you to? What does the word mean to you...and to her?


I was married to an unbeliever for over 40 years. My choice to become a Christian came soon after we married. It was difficult at first, but in time as my new faith became more routine, we both adjusted to the situation and it all worked out. He was not a spiritual person, but that did not affect my relationship with him. He allowed me my freedom to live as I chose, and I did the same to him. It’s about mutual respect. If he had manifested any spiritual interest, it would have surfaced sooner or later.....but it never did, and that was his choice.

Having said that, our marriage would have been so much better if we had shared spiritual values and been able to worship together. But raising our children with both views was a good education for them. Both chose to stay with my faith.

When we lost him, it was not a religious funeral, as that would have been hypocritical, but a member of my brotherhood (whom he considered a friend) conducted the service as a celebration of his life.


A spiritual appetite is sometimes hidden in us....but once awakened, it can be surprisingly demanding. I never knew I was spiritually hungry until I started asking questions and getting answers....the more answers I got, the more questions I had....I became aware of my spiritual capacity for the first time. I discovered that my appetite for spiritual things is never satisfied, and with each ‘mouthful’ I gain strength. It’s an ongoing process.....and thankfully, I see no end in sight.

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Her Christianity is a literal interpretation of the Bible. She goes to an Anglican church.

Rival said:

Stuff like this truly perplexes me. This strikes me as a cult mentality.

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I do tend to call it a cult for a reason. The greatest example being when I was helping in the church library one day, and books from authors of different denominations were purged (so, this was by no means a large library, and most people I've seen with a personal library have a bigger library than that church).
The demon arseling didn't go to the same church. But he had (and still has, last I heard) the same mentality.

The Hammer said:

This is a defense tactic.

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I know that one

My Master told us:
1) "if asked share, without holding back, your opinion"
2) "Don't mention My name".Probably again emphasizing to share 'your own opinion'.

The Hammer said:

Thanks to past experiences with people being twats about my views, being purposely confrontational about it

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IF I only share when asked THEN I might reply in such a case "did I ask you for your opinion"?

Shadow Wolf said:

I do tend to call it a cult for a reason. The greatest example being when I was helping in the church library one day, and books from authors of different denominations were purged (so, this was by no means a large library, and most people I've seen with a personal library have a bigger library than that church).
The demon arseling didn't go to the same church. But he had (and still has, last I heard) the same mentality.

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That's sad and pathetic. I honestly can't fathom it.

Rival said:

That's sad and pathetic. I honestly can't fathom it.

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It's good you can't. That stuff needs not leave the Bible thumping (and meth) lands it's strong in, and it really needs to be done away with there. In the end there is nothing good that can come of it.

The Hammer said:

or just gemerall trying to demonize my position.

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Good to realize that it takes a demon to do that

I can't always oblige, but I can always speak obligingly AND share this fact

Deeje said:

Just out of curiosity, what ‘kind’ of “Christianity” is she trying to convert you to? What does the word mean to you...and to her?


I was married to an unbeliever for over 40 years. My choice to become a Christian came soon after we married. It was difficult at first, but in time as my new faith became more routine, we both adjusted to the situation and it all worked out. He was not a spiritual person, but that did not affect my relationship with him. He allowed me my freedom to live as I chose, and I did the same to him. It’s about mutual respect. If he had manifested any spiritual interest, it would have surfaced sooner or later.....but it never did, and that was his choice.

Having said that, our marriage would have been so much better if we had shared spiritual values and been able to worship together. But raising our children with both views was a good education for them. Both chose to stay with my faith.

When we lost him, it was not a religious funeral, as that would have been hypocritical, but a member of my brotherhood (whom he considered a friend) conducted the service as a celebration of his life.


A spiritual appetite is sometimes hidden in us....but once awakened, it can be surprisingly demanding. I never knew I was spiritually hungry until I started asking questions and getting answers....the more answers I got, the more questions I had....I became aware of my spiritual capacity for the first time. I discovered that my appetite for spiritual things is never satisfied, and with each ‘mouthful’ I gain strength. It’s an ongoing process.....and thankfully, I see no end in sight.

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I see the Bible as literature. She sees it as Salvation. But we are very pleased to be together otherwise.

osgart said:

Her Christianity is a literal interpretation of the Bible. She goes to an Anglican church.

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Thank you, that answers my question....I am a former Anglican and fled from that institution because it provided no answers at all to any of my questions. They were the hard questions apparently, and they were very uncomfortable with them. I also questioned the churches' involvement in politics, their stand on war and bloodshed....and all I heard was crickets.....

That was a long time ago but from acquaintances who are still with the church, it appears as if nothing much has changed...they still have no answers and I require a faith with eyes wide open, and transparent obedience to Christ's teachings.....all of them, not just the convenient ones......and no excuses for disobeying them.

My faith is not blind and I refuse to ignore what I cannot question.

The Hammer said:

So, I wanted to drop an apology. Partially, towards @Deeje , or anyone else who has asked about my Religious views previously, and I avoided direct responses.

I tend to give curt/obfuscated replies when it comes to people asking about my Religion as a Pagan, and I play my cards close to my chest more often then not, only giving out as much information as I feel is necessary.

This is a defense tactic. Thanks to past experiences with people being twats about my views, being purposely confrontational about it, or just gemerall trying to demonize my position.

So, I tend not to trust my ability to discern people's intentions in this regard.

I am trying to be better about this, by reminding myself that I am not a mind reader, and can only judge about what actually occurs, and not what I "think" is occuring.

Apologies,
The Hammer

Click to expand...

I still do not talk about my pagan religion to many people. Even when I started this path I had to get past the years of misrepresentation of pagan religion and symbols in the media not to mention the misunderstanding of the religion to the general public in the US - especially in the southern US.

Interestingly I never even considered a druid path because of the misunderstanding of the term. This was made worse in my opinion by Ronald Hutton and his books on the Druids. I appreciate his critical review of history but it left a bad impression especially on Druids. Ironically it was the book you recommended "Being a Pagan" along with @Deeje 's thread that made me relook and modern Druid tradition. I am just starting to read Druidry handbook by Michael Greer and have been pleasantly surprised and this has given me a different perspective.

I am finally becoming comfortable with expressing my beliefs in public but as funny side note. When I moved to Austin almost four years ago I had no idea that both my neighbors were pagan. In a celebration of the fall equinox last year we had both neighbors invited over only to find out they have lived near each other and never knew they shared a similar religion for over 10 years until that night. I think things will continue to get better with time.