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judaism and zoroastrianism believe in the same God?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
But do you believe zoroastrianism is a religion from God?
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No, Ahura Mazda and HaShem are not alike. As Harel said it is dualistic, albeit many see Angra Mainyu simply as the personification of evil rather than a deity in himself. 'Mainyu' means mind or spirit (in the sense of mood) and so could be translated as 'destructive mind'. There's not really a modern Zoroastrian movement and there's a great deal of speculation about Zoroastrian theology; some of its practitioners regard it as monotheistic, reject the Avesta, only accept the Gathas and at this point it's basically a reformed religion for many. Conceptions of AM seemed to have changed through the centuries, as well.
I do not think their God is comparable to HaShem, however.
Avestan angra mainyu "seems to have been an original conception of Zoroaster's."[1] In the Gathas, which are the oldest texts of Zoroastrianism and are attributed to Zoroaster, angra mainyu is not yet a proper name.[a] In the one instance in these hymns where the two words appear together, the concept spoken of is that of a mainyu ("mind", "spirit" or otherwise an abstract energy etc.) that is angra ("destructive", "chaotic", "disorderly", "inhibitive", "malign" etc, of which a manifestation can be anger). In this single instance – in Yasna 45.2 – the "more bounteous of the spirits twain" declares angra mainyu to be its "absolute antithesis".[1]
A similar statement occurs in Yasna 30.3, where the antithesis is however aka mainyu, aka being the Avestan language word for "evil". Hence, aka mainyu is the "evil spirit" or "evil mind" or "evil thought," as contrasted with spenta mainyu, the "bounteous spirit" with which Ahura Mazda conceived of creation, which then "was". Ahriman - Wikipedia
I do not think their God is comparable to HaShem, however.
Avestan angra mainyu "seems to have been an original conception of Zoroaster's."[1] In the Gathas, which are the oldest texts of Zoroastrianism and are attributed to Zoroaster, angra mainyu is not yet a proper name.[a] In the one instance in these hymns where the two words appear together, the concept spoken of is that of a mainyu ("mind", "spirit" or otherwise an abstract energy etc.) that is angra ("destructive", "chaotic", "disorderly", "inhibitive", "malign" etc, of which a manifestation can be anger). In this single instance – in Yasna 45.2 – the "more bounteous of the spirits twain" declares angra mainyu to be its "absolute antithesis".[1]
A similar statement occurs in Yasna 30.3, where the antithesis is however aka mainyu, aka being the Avestan language word for "evil". Hence, aka mainyu is the "evil spirit" or "evil mind" or "evil thought," as contrasted with spenta mainyu, the "bounteous spirit" with which Ahura Mazda conceived of creation, which then "was". Ahriman - Wikipedia
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I believe it may be originally so, because of this:
Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of Yahweh by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, Yahweh stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus says Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth has Yahweh, the God of heaven, given me; and he has charged me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whoever there is among you of all his people, Yahweh his God be with him, and let him go up.
2 Chr. 36:22-23
It appears that the king of Persia was influenced by Bible God and it may have caused the Zoroastrianism to rise.
Zoroastrianism had been around for centuries before this.
Nope.
Cyrus Cylinder - Wikipedia
I believe God influences the world. However, I'm not entirely sure Cyrus was aware of this influence.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Have jews also have written positive about ahura-mazda and zoroastrianism or is it only written negative about it in jewish sources?
Thanks, interesting article. Could it be that they called Bible God Marduk? It is possible that I am wrong, but there is interesting similarity and certainly that in Bible it is told that God directed the king, it indicates to me it is possible.
Why do you believe so? What evidence we have for that?
Not the Persians. Mardoch was a Babylonian god. The point is that it seems that Cyrus's gesture to the Jews was actually part of an empire-wide peace initiative. To each people he extended an olive branch in the name of their gods.
It's connected to Dharmic Religions / Hindusim and has no identifiable start date. We know that Zarathustra came before the 6th century BCE and considering how well-formed the religion was by Koresh's time, it's highly likely it has been around for a long time prior to this as a reactionary movement against certain strains of what would become Hindusim.
The roots of Zoroastrianism are thought to have emerged from a common prehistoric Indo-Iranian religious system dating back to the early 2nd millennium BCE.[57] The prophet Zoroaster himself, though traditionally dated to the 6th century BCE, is thought by many modern historians to have been a reformer of the polytheistic Iranian religion who lived in the 10th century BCE.
Zoroastrianism - Wikipedia
There's a theory out there that Zoroastrianism in its original form, i.e., prior to becoming dualistic, was meant to be a tool designed to bring the Persians towards a form of Noahidism, the pros of such a system being that it allows for a full religion with symbols and festivals and the like. But that's a really modern theory. I'm not aware of anything positive being written about Zoroastrianism in the past.
During my time as a Zoroastrian I never heard anything like this. I must admit it sounds very far fetched.
Well, it is an exclusively Orthodox Jewish idea. The theory is based on a view that suggests that the person who pushed for Zoroastrianism to be the central religion of the Medes and Persians was Darius II, son of Ahasuerus and Esther. Why would a Jew push for a dualistic religion? That's where this theory comes in.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
So some modern ortodox jews believe zoroastrianism is a type of noahidism?
No, not at all. You misunderstood. Some theorize that Zoroastrianism in its original form, which I don't think anyone has practiced for thousands of years, was intended to be a form of Noahidism. But it quickly became dualistic, so that plan went down the drain, as they say.
Thanks. For me that is not good enough, because it is just what some have thought and some think is likely. Not good enough for me.