• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Did jesus take the people under the earth to heaven?

F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Ephesians 4:8-12
King James Version

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

In verse 8 it says he ascended on high and lead captivity captive.Also it says in verse 9 how he ascended.I think the people in verse 8 were the people in the good part of sheol like samuel with the witch of endor like in
1 Sam 28:1-20:

"Now Samuel was dead ... Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." ... Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice... And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see an old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel ... Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me ... therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do." And Samuel said, tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed the Lord will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!"

And not the bad part of sheol like the king of Babylon in Isa 14:9-11:



"God said to the King of Babylon: "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; ... "They will all respond and say to you, 'Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us. 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol"

I think jesus DID take people from out of the center of the earth.What do you think?
 
Last edited:
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Frank Goad said:
Ephesians 4:8-12
King James Version

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

In verse 8 it says he ascended on high and lead captivity captive.Also it says in verse 9 how he ascended.I think the people in verse 8 were the people in the good part of sheol like samuel with the witch of endor like in
1 Sam 28:1-20:

"Now Samuel was dead ... Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." ... Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice... And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see an old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel ... Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me ... therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do." And Samuel said, tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed the Lord will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!"

And not the bad part of sheol like the king of Babylon in Isa 14:9-11:



"God said to the King of Babylon: "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; ... "They will all respond and say to you, 'Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us. 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol"

I think jesus DID take people from out of the center of the earth.What do you think?
Click to expand...
Paul is quoting Psalm 68:18, which isn't talking about dead people.
If Samuel was dead, which the Bible says he was, then who was talking? If your answer is Samuel, then you believe the dead can talk, which would mean that you disagree with Ecclesiastes 9:4-6. True?
 
F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
nPeace said:
Paul is quoting Psalm 68:18, which isn't talking about dead people.
If Samuel was dead, which the Bible says he was, then who was talking? If your answer is Samuel, then you believe the dead can talk, which would mean that you disagree with Ecclesiastes 9:4-6. True?
Click to expand...

I keep going back and forth on if we have a spirit that goes right to heavan.The big problem with me is I find some verses in the bible look like a spirit DOES go right to heavan.And some Do NOT.So I go back and forth.:(

When you joined the jw.What got you over my problem?:)
 
101G

101G

Well-Known Member
Addressing the OP,
No, just as with lazarus of Bethany, that was the proof of the general resurrection to come. a restored life is not a resurrected life, as was with the widow's son at Nain, or Jairus' daughter whom he all raised from the dead.

and the people under the earth was "spirit", whom he preached to. for all "spirit" are given by God, (Isaiah 42:5), and by what our Lord Jesus did on the cross all return to God, either in Heaven or in Earth, for God is everywhere. supportive scripture, Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern." Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

and christ being the FIRST FRUIT, he is the Only one in a resurrected body in heaven, or anywhere.

and yes, God, the Lord Jesus, is both God of the LIVING and the DEAD. scripture, Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.".

1 Peter 4:5 "Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead." 1 Peter 4:6 "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

PICJAG,
101G.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Frank Goad said:
I keep going back and forth on if we have a spirit that goes right to heavan.The big problem with me is I find some verses in the bible look like a spirit DOES go right to heavan.And some Do NOT.So I go back and forth.:(

When you joined the jw.What got you over my problem?:)
Click to expand...
I never had your problem Frank.
I did the opposite to you actually. Instead of looking for what I wanted, I looked for what God wanted, and when I saw what God wanted, I went with what God wants. I don't think pride was ever a problem for me, so that I wasn't willing to adjust my thinking to fit God's ways.

I can tell you honestly that there were a few things I really liked, but when I realize that they were things God hates, I did what Paul did -
(1 Corinthians 9:26, 27) 26 Therefore, the way I am running is not aimlessly; the way I am aiming my blows is so as not to be striking the air; 27 but I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.

Notice that Paul realized that doing things his way, or we can say, running with his own ideas, was like striking the air - pointless, meaningless.
He realized that that only leads to disappointment, as he would only be disqualified - disapproved by God.
So he got tough with himself, and forced himself to conform to the "rules" - God's way.

Seems you would need to follow this example, and get tough with yourself. After all, what's the use of wasting your time on something that leads you nowhere but eternal death.
Being approved by God, for eternal life is a wonderful gift.

So maybe think of yourself in a race, but not in a worldly race...
(1 Corinthians 9:24, 25) 24 Do you not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Now everyone competing in a contest exercises self-control in all things. Of course, they do it to receive a crown that can perish, but we, one that does not perish.

Think of yourself in a race for life. God has set the rules. You find it hard to abide by the rules, but to run with your own idea of the rules will only get you disqualified.
So ask yourself, is it worth running a race, where you don't finish, because you are disqualified?

I don't think that makes sense. Do you?
The Devil would certainly enjoy seeing you fail.
Don't let him win, with you.
 
Last edited:
P

pearl

Well-Known Member
Frank Goad said:
I think jesus DID take people from out of the center of the earth.What do you think?
Click to expand...

I think you're talking about a culture for whom there existed a three layer world, the earth beneath, the ground walked on, and the heavens above. I think, hopefully, we're a little beyond that view of the universe.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Frank Goad said:
...
I think jesus DID take people from out of the center of the earth.What do you think?
Click to expand...

I believe Jesus preached the message also to those who had died and took those who are righteous with him, because of these two scriptures:

Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
John 5:25

Behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, they entered into the holy city and appeared to many.
Matt. 27:51-53
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Frank Goad said:
Ephesians 4:8-12
King James Version

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

In verse 8 it says he ascended on high and lead captivity captive.Also it says in verse 9 how he ascended.I think the people in verse 8 were the people in the good part of sheol like samuel with the witch of endor like in
1 Sam 28:1-20:

"Now Samuel was dead ... Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." ... Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice... And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see an old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel ... Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me ... therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do." And Samuel said, tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed the Lord will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!"

And not the bad part of sheol like the king of Babylon in Isa 14:9-11:



"God said to the King of Babylon: "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; ... "They will all respond and say to you, 'Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us. 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol"

I think jesus DID take people from out of the center of the earth.What do you think?
Click to expand...

I believe Jesus was buried in a tomb. That would constitute descending into the earth.

I believe Sheol is just the grave and everyone goes into it the same way.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
nPeace said:
Paul is quoting Psalm 68:18, which isn't talking about dead people.
If Samuel was dead, which the Bible says he was, then who was talking? If your answer is Samuel, then you believe the dead can talk, which would mean that you disagree with Ecclesiastes 9:4-6. True?
Click to expand...

I believe the dead are not able to speak physically but I do believe they can communicate spiritually.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Frank Goad said:
I keep going back and forth on if we have a spirit that goes right to heavan.The big problem with me is I find some verses in the bible look like a spirit DOES go right to heavan.And some Do NOT.So I go back and forth.:(

When you joined the jw.What got you over my problem?:)
Click to expand...

I believe going to Heaven is not magic. I do believe the verse that says: it is appointed for man once to die and then comes the judgment. I believe God is our judge and He decides where we will go next.
 
Bree

Bree

Active Member
Frank Goad said:
I keep going back and forth on if we have a spirit that goes right to heavan.The big problem with me is I find some verses in the bible look like a spirit DOES go right to heavan.And some Do NOT.So I go back and forth.:(

When you joined the jw.What got you over my problem?:)
Click to expand...

you need not take all verses literally.

The key is to follow the direction of the teaching of the Governing Body. They have a very good grasp on what to take literally and what not.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
I believe going to Heaven is not magic. I do believe the verse that says: it is appointed for man once to die and then comes the judgment. I believe God is our judge and He decides where we will go next.
Click to expand...
what would you be doing i heaven ?? you have to know it would be for all of eternity
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top