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Are theists dumb by default?

Are theists dumb by default

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

joelr

Well-Known Member
I don’t have to feel bad because I am religious, .

I don't know what you mean or why you would say that?


your the one who doesn’t have feelings for Heaven.

Sure heaven is great. Unfortunately it seems to be a concept created by the Greeks. For ~800 years not one Jewish religious thinker seemed to have any idea that it was an actual place people went to in the afterlife? Then, just as they are invaded by the Greeks they too are all about heaven? They are stories.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
It might help for me to say why 'truth' about how to best live life ("truth" being defined as the best answer/solution/rule known out of all competing answers/solutions/rules) -- why such cannot be originated/invented.

Truths about human life can only be discovered -- they pre-exist any person, and are already fixed (unalterable) since they arise out of/depend on our shared human nature -- our shared human characteristics we all have from our common genome.

So, I don't think any individual "comes up with" such rules in the sense of originating or creating, as would be done for instance for something like an original work of art. The rules are not inventions, and cannot be originated like a work of art or a construction.

We can only discover them, like discovering how gravity works, or magnetism. A person discovering something about how gravity works isn't originating, but simply finding what already exists. Like someone finding a gold nugget in a stream bed.

So, I expect the Golden Rule, if you count all versions, both full and partial, to have been discovered by individuals billions of times. Without hearing of it from anyone first. Just by realization.

Most such rules might be this way, or very many are at least.

On the other hand, a more difficult to see one such as the one Christ enunciated that we should even love those that are 'enemies' (act as enemies towards us) may be much harder to find, and discovered far less often than some of the rules. Many or perhaps even most people might not ever discover it on their own.

Well there you go, you said it. These are things people discover. Like gravity. Only certain people have the insight. Doesn't require any religion to be true?
The Iliad end with the concept of finally finding peace through loving an enemy. That doesn't mean Zeus was a real God?
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
People with less intelligence will have a limited capacity to understand spiritual and social philosophy. So if they have a religious inclination they may be more susceptible to dogmatic acceptance of "truths" prescribed by self-declared religious authorities which they have come to respect.

These are perhaps the same type of people who will follow strong right-wing political leaders without questioning the moral content of their ideas.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Strawman created by who? ;)
You with the claim that there is apparently a lot of atheists running around here who think theists are dumb.
The ones saying yes generally show indications of being deeply entrenched in trench of bias (it bleeds into their political discussions as well). These few are also creating strawmen.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I believe the term you used was "atheists referring to theists as dumb."

Logically Fallacious's explanation is decent:

Please read the whole post, not just the heading.

If just reading a heading is your method to understand a post or anything for that matter, it is shallow surfing.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Well there you go, you said it. These are things people discover. Like gravity. Only certain people have the insight. Doesn't require any religion to be true?
The Iliad end with the concept of finally finding peace through loving an enemy. That doesn't mean Zeus was a real God?

Right, Zeus isn't a real god, because of course I can't ask him to do something extremely unlikely or such and then have it happen, against the current circumstances.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
What does honouring the Sabbath or worshipping only God have to do with morality?

I have weird, arbitrary quirks that I follow consistently, too. I just don't see them as a marker of my virtue.

Worshiping sex, money, power, job promotions--anything but God leads to trouble. "Marker of your virtue?" A person who goes from worshipping drugs or alcohol often finds relief WORSHIPING GOD ONLY INSTEAD.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Worshiping sex, money, power, job promotions--anything but God leads to trouble.
Worshipping God often leads to trouble, too.

"Marker of your virtue?" A person who goes from worshipping drugs or alcohol often finds relief WORSHIPING GOD ONLY INSTEAD.
Nobody worships drugs or alcohol. If you think they do, this is likely because you're making bad assumptions about worldviews you don't understand.

In any case, I'm saying that your habit of attending your house of worship on Sundays is just as odd and arbitrary as my habit of eating peas whole without chewing them (which is something I actually do. Started as a little kid).

You deserve as much praise for consistently "honouring the Sabbath" as I do for consistently not chewing peas. If you feel that you need to do it, that's fine, but it's a bit much to demand praise for consistent adherence to an arbitrary rule that you've decided to follow.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Nobody worships drugs or alcohol.

Then you have not understood worship. Accusing others, it is you making assumptions.

If this is the understanding of worship that you have, then it is absolutely inferior. If this is where you start your barrage on religion, you have to seriously educate yourself to have a valid dialogue.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
If you are part of RF and explore this forum a bit, you would notice that since of recent times the frequency of Atheists alluding to theists as dumb

I haven't noticed this.


A lot of circumventing language will probably be used to call them plain dumb. Some claim they are mentally handicapped, and some "uneducated",


Mentally handicapped and uneducated are very different things.

There is nothing wrong with calling someone uneducated as long as it is the truth.
I, for example in uneducated in physics, genetics, etc.
At best, I have a working knowledge of the basic ideas as common knowledge. But don't ask me to write down einstein's field equations or whatever.

That doesn't make me "dumb". That makes me ignorant on those specific subjects.

Are you sure you aren't confusing "dumb" with "ignorant" in your entire OP here?

Of course there will be some atheists who would say "not all atheists do this" which is true.

I would like to understand if there are any proper research done in modern times, and in retrospect that atheists who claim to be "scientific" would have to contribute to this discussion. The world has people from all walks of life and progress or even science has and will swing this way and that way in advancement. Todays big shot may not be tomorrows. For example, the UK was the empire where the sun never sets, and now the United States which is a fairly new country maybe a few hundred times more sophisticated in military and economic spreading of their wings. Some time ago, it was the Ottoman Empire. Long ago it was the Romans. Well, this could go on, and you get the gist.

Thus, are there any good researches done that could contribute to this discussion, this way or that way?

(I will just for the sake of it put up a poll here though I believe they contain a lot of baggage, hawthorn effects, and voters cloud).

Thanks in advance.

Demographics show that there is a correlation between atheism and higher education.
In the science world, there are also more atheists then in the general population.
If we take further subsets of those scientists and only count the "elite" ones, then the amount of atheists goes up further still.

I don't think however that this says anything about intelligence. I think it speaks more to how education might expose false religious beliefs, or at least make it harder to maintain belief.

So I think these numbers speak to the inner conflict of a person who holds religious beliefs on the one hand, while having potentially contradicting scientific knowledge in the other.

Then there's also the type of reasoning that scientists are trained in. One of the basics is "question everything" and the importance of evidence. Which is kind of the opposite of many religions, which instead tend to rather impose "question nothing and just believe" and how to believe on faith instead of evidence.

That conflict might also likely mean that the very religious will not be interested in even pursuing a scientific career as they see it as "bad" because of that.

So in short, I don't think that the average IQ among the religious is necessarily lower then among atheists. I think a lot of it is upbringing and education.
 
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