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Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection

We have entered a new stage of spiritual evolution because we are living in a new age. It is called the Messianic Age because the Messiah has come. The Messiah was the return of Christ as promised in the Bible.

To be clear, I believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but Jesus did not plan or promise to return to earth after He ascended to heaven.

(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)

That means that the return of Christ as promised in the Bible had to me another man and Bahai's believe that man was Baha'u'llah.

In the Baháʼí Faith, the "Messianic Age" refers to a 1000-year period beginning with the Declaration of Baháʼu'lláh in 1863. Baháʼís believe the period of peace and prosperity is gradually unfolding and will culminate in the appearance of "The Most Great Peace".
Messianic Age - Wikipedia

Baha'is believe that Adam was the first Prophet in the Adamic Cycle of religion and that we are living in the Universal Cycle of religion which began with Adam.

41: THE UNIVERSAL CYCLES

The present Universal Cycle of religion includes the Adamic Cycle (Prophetic Cycle) which began with Adam and ended with Muhammad, who was the Seal of the Prophets. The Baha’i Cycle (Cycle of Fulfillment) was ushered in by the coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. All Messengers of God that come during this Cycle will be under the shadow of Baha'u'llah. The Baha’i Cycle will last no less than 500,000 years.

“It is evident that every age in which a Manifestation of God hath lived is divinely ordained, and may, in a sense, be characterized as God’s appointed Day. This Day, however, is unique, and is to be distinguished from those that have preceded it. The designation “Seal of the Prophets” fully revealeth its high station. The Prophetic Cycle hath, verily, ended. The Eternal Truth is now come. He hath lifted up the Ensign of Power, and is now shedding upon the world the unclouded splendor of His Revelation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 60
Thank-you for explaining, but not sure what you do with Scriptures that disagree with this like this one and many others.
““Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.””
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Zechariah 14 explains Jesus returning with his Saints at the end of this Christ is in Jerusalem as King for a time. Revelation 20 also explains the 1000 year reign before Satan is let loose again. How do you reconcile these things?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Thank-you for explaining, but not sure what you do with Scriptures that disagree with this like this one and many others.
““Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.””
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
John‬ ‭14:1-3 has come up in previous discussions with Christians, so I already have an interpretation written up.

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus said He would come again, but Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago.

When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to His physical body coming again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11).

Since Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more we know that when He said "and receive you unto myself" He was not talking about His physical body, but rather He was referring to His spirit. Also please note that Jesus did not ever say He would come again and ‘do’ anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on earth, as most Christians believe Jesus will do.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in heaven, not on earth.

The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah who was the return of Christ that Jesus promised. So when Jesus said “I will come again” He meant that His Spirit would come again because He would send His Spirit from the Father, and we see that in the verses that follow in John 14. Jesus promised not to leave us comfortless and then He said He would send a Comforter. The Comforter refers to the person who would be the return of Christ. So when Jesus said I will come again, He meant He would send His spirit in the person of the Comforter who would do what it says in John 14:26.

John 14 KJV

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.


"and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” is referring to heaven, not earth, because Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place in heaven, not on earth. Jesus was preparing a place in heaven so they could be with him in heaven.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To summarize, Jesus did not say "my body will come again." The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah, and that was what Jesus promised to send. Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Zechariah 14 explains Jesus returning with his Saints at the end of this Christ is in Jerusalem as King for a time. Revelation 20 also explains the 1000 year reign before Satan is let loose again. How do you reconcile these things?
Briefly, the way I explain those is to say that any prophecies in the Old Testament or the Book of Revelation that Christians believe are about the second coming of Christ are referring to Baha'u'llah, not Jesus. I do not have time to go into that now, but I can prove it with all the Old Testament prophecies that were fulfilled by the coming of Baha'u'llah. Those prophecies and how they were fulfilled are listed in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears.

At the end of the day, what we believe is all about how we interpret the Bible prophecies. There is more than one way to interpret them and that is one reason why Christians do not agree about the second coming and what will happen. For example, JWs read the same scripture and yet they come up with very different beliefs from mainstream Christians. JWs even have different beliefs regarding where they will spend eternity; they believe they will live forever on earth whereas most Christians believe they will spend eternity in heaven....... yet they are reading the same Bible as other Christians.
 
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John‬ ‭14:1-3 has come up in previous discussions with Christians, so I already have an interpretation written up.

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus said He would come again, but Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago.

When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to His physical body coming again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11).

Since Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more we know that when He said "and receive you unto myself" He was not talking about His physical body, but rather He was referring to His spirit. Also please note that Jesus did not ever say He would come again and ‘do’ anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on earth, as most Christians believe Jesus will do.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in heaven, not on earth.

The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah who was the return of Christ that Jesus promised. So when Jesus said “I will come again” He meant that His Spirit would come again because He would send His Spirit from the Father, and we see that in the verses that follow in John 14. Jesus promised not to leave us comfortless and then He said He would send a Comforter. The Comforter refers to the person who would be the return of Christ. So when Jesus said I will come again, He meant He would send His spirit in the person of the Comforter who would do what it says in John 14:26.

John 14 KJV

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.


"and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” is referring to heaven, not earth, because Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place in heaven, not on earth. Jesus was preparing a place in heaven so they could be with him in heaven.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To summarize, Jesus did not say "my body will come again." The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah, and that was what Jesus promised to send. Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Briefly, the way I explain those is to say that any prophecies in the Old Testament or the Book of Revelation that Christians believe are about the second coming of Christ are referring to Baha'u'llah, not Jesus. I do not have time to go into that now, but I can prove it with all the Old Testament prophecies that were fulfilled by the coming of Baha'u'llah. Those prophecies and how they were fulfilled are listed in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears.

At the end of the day, what we believe is all about how we interpret the Bible prophecies. There is more than one way to interpret them and that is one reason why Christians do not agree about the second coming and what will happen. For example, JWs read the same scripture and yet they come up with very different beliefs from mainstream Christians. JWs even have different beliefs regarding where they will spend eternity; they believe they will live forever on earth whereas most Christians believe they will spend eternity in heaven....... yet they are reading the same Bible as other Christians.
Ok thanks for explaining your views although Revelation does say specifically Jesus Christ returning and is a Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I would think that if someone was going to take the place of Jesus Christ his name would be mentioned and the Scriptures would say that, they don’t though.
 
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@Trailblazer
“who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
“Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:3-6, 23-27, 30‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Where does it say Baha'u'llah in the Scriptures?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Wasn't it during this time that documents were written by Roman historians (about Julius Caesar for example) which we accept as valid today?
Yes there were writers who created factual records and we can distinguish these from embellished texts. Historians and linguists examine these ancient texts and present their conclusions. It's quite interesting what they can reveal about the various texts, especially the four Gospels.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
What is the difference between extraordinary evidence and just evidence (the coelacanth was thought extinct 65 million years ago with dinosaurs, and the evidence to the contrary in 1938 was just a coelacanth)?
An example of ordinary evidence is like if you claimed you ate a ham sandwich for lunch and we wanted evidence. Well since you ate it already we can't observe you doing it. But you can show us the wrapper that says "ham sandwich" on it. You can show us the receipt that says you bought a ham sandwich an hour ago. And since ham sandwiches exist and people then for lunch, we will accept your mundane claim that you ate a ham sandwich.

If you claimed you ate a polar bear burger made of polar bear meat for lunch, well ...... that's an extraordinary claim. You might offer us a note for your mother that she made you a polar bear meat burger, but really? Did she really write that, or you? You might point to a piece of meat left one the plate, but is it really polar bear, or perhaps beef? The thing about claims is that we tend to use a line of thought that follows Occam's Razor, what is most likely true. So your next step might be to present evidence that Eskimos are known to eat polar bear meat. OK, that might help your case but it doesn't confirm your extraordinary claim. What we could do is have the piece of meat you found tested, and if it comes back beef, not good for you. If it comes back polar bear, over even some kind of bear, then that's good for your claim as it's extraordinary evidence. You could provide a receipt that you bought polar bear meat online, that would be good evidence.

Can you follow along here how evidence needs to meet the type of claim?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I didn’t reject expert testimony and science in the Chauvin case.
Yes you did. We witnessed you doing this.

What does this have to do with evolution, which from previous posts has nothing to do with Creation that would be bio-Genesis is what was the consensus.
Do you accept evolution as a conclusive explanation for diversity of life, and abiogenesis as the most plausible way life began on the planet?

As far as the Word fear meaning reverence and respect and the Bible uses the word fear so that’s why I used it. There are lots of words that are used that have different meanings in Scripture like love.
Yes, there are many words in the NT that make the words in the OT obsolete, and this includes a God to fear. That is used by fundamentalist Christians as part of how they emotionally manipulate believers.
 
Yes you did. We witnessed you doing this.

As I explained and my position makes sense, you keep avoiding the whole picture of what transpired and looking at the situation in a vacuum. Let you in on something, after giving Floyd’s family 27 million about, and making such a big deal about this, justifying the destruction of a city with looting etc. You think they would give him a fair trial? Maxine Waters and her stunt? You wont look at any of that part and I do consider all that because I’m not biased and have no horse in the race.
 
Yes, there are many words in the NT that make the words in the OT obsolete, and this includes a God to fear. That is used by fundamentalist Christians as part of how they emotionally manipulate believers
Why do you feel the need to make things up and prove your ignorance like Hebrew language is obsolete now, if you do a little research and were a little interested there are materials that explain what words mean so you can know the difference. Instead you continue to make false assumptions.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
??? The Quran teaches that Jesus did not die, but another was made to look like him, and they only thought they crucified him (bad luck for that other guy... I think his name was Brian, or something like that). And that Jesus will not die until the day of resurrection, that he was taken alive up into heaven. To me, that's a major contradiction with the Christian view of Jesus's death and resurrection.

Islamic views on Jesus' death - Wikipedia.

I believe that is a misinterpretation of what the Qu'ran says.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Ok thanks for explaining your views although Revelation does say specifically Jesus Christ returning and is a Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I would think that if someone was going to take the place of Jesus Christ his name would be mentioned and the Scriptures would say that, they don’t though.
Baha'u'llah did not come to take the place of Jesus, He just came to complete the work that Jesus started.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Where does the Book of Revelation say the name Jesus and specify that Jesus is the one who would be returning? Christians just assumed that it would be Jesus coming back but it cannot be Jesus unless Jesus lied or unless the Bible is in error. How do you explain these verses?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Logically speaking, if the verses in John are is in error, then how can any other verses in the Bible be trusted to be correct?

The Book of Revelation says that Christ would have a New Name. Why would the same man Jesus have a new name?

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

I suggest you watch this short video because it explains a lot in a few short minutes and it contains important prophecies and explains them within the context of the return of Christ.

 
Where does the Book of Revelation say the name Jesus and specify that Jesus is the one who would be returning? Christians just assumed that it would be Jesus coming back but it cannot be Jesus unless Jesus lied or unless the Bible is in error. How do you explain these verses?

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:1-3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
The book of Revelation is about the revealing of Jesus Christ, it’s about Him just like the rest of the Scriptures. He is the main subject.
How do I explain the new name... Jesus has been given many names take Revelation 19 for example

“Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19:11-16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Jesus Christ is the Word of God, He is Faithful and True, He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. These are all names given to Jesus Christ, He also was given another name besides these, that name it says no one knew except Him.
 
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

When Jesus died and rose again the world didn’t see Him only the apostles and believers, Jesus said He was going away and would send the Holy Spirit to live inside believers. We are still living in the church age and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

“Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:19-22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
“But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.” (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:7-16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
There is only 1 Bride of Christ, the Church (believers worldwide).
 
Has it ever occurred to Christians that Christ returning is for believers to just be decent people? I find it sad that Christians over the centuries are expecting a mythic figure to appear, only to be disappointed. They could be bringing Christ back by just following his teachings.


Why would it matter if all the rest wasn't true? Christ, is not about fear of death it is about does it cut the mustard?
Every person in their own lifetime is living in the last days, now time is another matter. What if's are a mute point a person has to be honest enough with themselves and God about what they believe and the difference it should make. Because no one knows the day but we can know the truth in our own end days.
 
LOL! I am spiritually alive because I received the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, a clearly morally superior God to the tribal murderer of the Bible. You are spiritually dead because you believe in a God that thinks that slavery and genocide are fine.

Compare their "Commandments:

The 8 I’d Really Rather You Didn’ts

1. I’d really rather you didn’t act like a sanctimonious, holier-than-thou *** when describing my Noodly Goodness. If some people don’t believe in me, that’s okay. Really, I’m not that vain. Besides, this isn’t about them so don’t change the subject.

2. I’d really rather you didn’t use my existence as a means to oppress, subjugate, punish, eviscerate, and/or, you know, be mean to others. I don’t require sacrifices and purity is for drinking water, not people.

3. I’d really rather you didn’t judge people for the way they look, or how they dress, or the way they talk, or, well, just play nice, okay? Oh, and get this in your thick heads: woman = person. Man = person. Samey-samey. One is not better than the other, unless we’re talking about fashion and I’m sorry, but I gave that to women and some guys who know the difference between teal and fuchsia.

4. I’d really rather you didn’t indulge in conduct that offends yourself, or your willing, consenting partner of legal age and mental maturity. As for anyone who might object, I think the expression is go f*** yourself, unless they find that offensive in which case they can turn off the TV for once and go for a walk for a change.

5. I’d really rather you didn’t challenge the bigoted, misogynist, hateful ideas of others on an empty stomach. Eat, then go after the b******.

6. I’d really rather you didn’t build multimillion-dollar churches / temples / mosques / shrines to my Noodly Goodness when the money could be better spent (take your pick):
a. Ending poverty
b. Curing diseases
c. Living in peace, loving with passion, and lowering the cost of cable
I might be a complex-carbohydrate omniscient being, but I enjoy the simple things in life. I ought to know. I am the creator.

7. I’d really rather you didn’t go around telling people I talk to you. You’re not that interesting. Get over yourself. And I told you to love your fellow man, can’t you take a hint?

8. I’d really rather you didn’t do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you are into, um, stuff that uses a lot of leather / lubricant / lass Vegas. If the other person is into it, however (pursuant to #4), then have at it, take pictures, and for the love of mike, wear a condom! Honestly, it’s a piece of rubber. If I didn’t want it to feel good when you did it I would have added spikes, or something.

Your Bible allows a father to sell his daughter into sex slavery.

Oh Please! Last time I saw such rubbish must have been 10 years ago on a forum. Do you really never go past that stage?

Get a life.... go out and meet people who actual live instead of sit on a website saying things no one is interested in.


It would be great if for once you could actually keep on track. WHY can't you believe in the resurrection? May be it is because you have never actually read the bible and understood what is meant? Impress me and write an informed piece of why you cannot believe in the resurrection. So far all you have done is resurrect things written by others and you don't believe in resurrections?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
“who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.””
Acts 1:11 NKJV
Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The disciples were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky and said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as He went to heaven. It does not say that the disciples saw a physical body go up.

Jesus ascended in a spiritual body, not on a physical body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since the disciples could not see the spiritual body the way the angels could. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.
“Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Many men have come claiming to be Christ (in the name of Christ) List of people claimed to be Jesus, but Baha'u'llah did not come in the name if Christ, as was pointed out on the 10 minute video called The Return of Christ that I posted a little while ago. I hope you watch that video.
“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Indeed, many false Christs have come, and that is why Jesus warned of false Christs: List of people claimed to be Jesus but Jesus never said there would not be a true Christ. Baha’u’llah came from the east and flashed like lightening to the west, and I can explain that in another post if you want me to because I do not want to get off track right now.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
Matthew 24:3-6, 23-27, 30 NKJV
Where does it say Baha'u'llah in the Scriptures?
Whenever the Glory of God is mentioned in the prophecies in Scriptures it is referring to Baha’u’llah, because Baha’u’llah means the Glory of God in Arabic. Indeed, the name Baha’u’llah appeared in Arabic Bibles before that were taken from circulation.

I do not want to get too far off track, but here is an example of some verses that refer to Baha’u’llah:

Isaiah 35:1-2 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

Carmel and Sharon had seen the appearance of Bahá'u'lláh, the Glory of the Lord, and the desert blossomed as the rose. I can explain that in another post if you want me to, because I do not want to get off track right now.

Where does it say that Jesus would be the Son of Man who would come in the clouds?

The title ‘Son of man’ is symbolic of the perfect humanity that Jesus represented, but it does not apply exclusively to Jesus. It ultimately comes from the Book of Daniel, where it refers to the Messiah. It is a Baha’i teaching that the title applies to both Jesus and Baha’u’llah.

I highly suggest you read this post I wrote about the Son of Man: #1199 Trailblazer

I also suggest you read what I wrote this thread:

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

To explain in brief, I believe that ‘Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven’ means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence.

The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that cloud our judgment and prevent us from seeing what is really there. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, the desires of men hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

To further explain the teaming of clouds, the term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. They signify, in one sense, the annulment of laws, the abrogation of former Dispensations, the repeal of rituals and customs current among men. In another sense, they mean the appearance of a Manifestation of God in the image of mortal man, with such human limitations as eating and drinking, poverty and riches, sleeping and waking, and such other things as cast doubt in the minds of men, and cause them to turn away. These “veils” to recognition of a Manifestation of God are symbolically referred to as “clouds.” Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hinder the souls of men from recognizing the light of the Manifestation of God.

Thus the meaning of clouds is symbolic, not literal. Their judgment was clouded. When Christ returned Christians were looking for the same man Jesus in the same body that resurrected and ascended to appear in the actual physical clouds in the sky with power and great glory, trumpets and angels, but when that did not happen that way they rejected Christ when he came with His New Name.

The reason Christians missed recognizing Baha’u’llah in the mid-19th century (and still do not recognize Him) is because they are waiting for the “literal fulfillment” of those Son of man in the clouds of heaven prophecies. They expect the same physical body of Jesus to come floating down on a physical cloud from heaven, but I am sure you already know this since it is a basic Christian belief.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The book of Revelation is about the revealing of Jesus Christ, it’s about Him just like the rest of the Scriptures. He is the main subject.
You can believe that if you want to but your belief will not make it true and your belief will not make Jesus come back. I do not want to argue and I have already made my case so I see no point going over it again. Like all Christians you are digging in your heels and waiting for Jesus to return. That is your choice because God gave you free will. It does not make any difference to me what you believe because my job is done after I have delivered the message of Baha'u'llah and answered any questions people may have.
Jesus Christ is the Word of God, He is Faithful and True, He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. These are all names given to Jesus Christ, He also was given another name besides these, that name it says no one knew except Him.
You can try to use the Scriptures to prove what you believe is true, but you will lose every time. The New Name was Baha'u'llah and that is self-evident by all the Bible prophecies that were fulfilled by the coming of Baha'u'llah. You cannot change history or geography.

Jesus is the Son of God and a Manifestation of God but He is not the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That is a reference to Baha'u'llah. I could explain why but I don't see the point since you have already made up your mind.
 
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