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Do all paths lead to God? No is the answer

night912

Well-Known Member
At Isaiah 40:22 the Hebrew word chugh here translated as "circle" may also be rendered as "sphere." (A Concordance of the Hebrew and Chaldee Scriptures, by B. Davidson)

Unfortunately for you, "chugh" wasn't used to mean sphere anywhere in the bible.


The Circle of the Earth: Translation and Meaning in Isaiah 40:22
"The Circle of the Earth"
Translation and Meaning in Isaiah 40:22

Dennis Bratcher

Isaiah 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;

Some people, for various reasons, take "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah 40:22 to be a reference to a spherical earth. This would mean that the ancient Israelites of the eighth century BC knew that the earth was spherical and not flat. This perspective shows up in arguments from both Young Earth Creationists -1- and from those wanting to argue an absolutely literal reading of the biblical text, usually to support the idea that God revealed modern scientific facts and data to the ancient Israelites.

Engaging those perspectives might prove helpful to many Christians trying to take seriously both the scientific world in which they live and the perspectives of Scripture that come from a world three to two millennia in the past. However before we can begin to engage that discussion, we must come to terms with what the Bible actually says and means, especially within the context of Ancient Near Eastern culture.

It is important at least to consider and try to understand what the Bible says on the level of language and meaning before one jumps to taking single words out of a context to make an apologetic case for a notion or a doctrine. Simply working from a favorite translation that uses certain English words to which we then apply meaning in relation to our modern perspectives, knowledge, and world-view (how we understand the physical world to work) is not good enough. We must try to hear the Biblical text against the background, the literary, cultural and historical milieus, from which it was written.

The Hebrew word that is used in Isaiah 40:22 (חוּג, chug) does not at all imply a spherical earth. The root word only occurs in the Hebrew Bible once as a verb (Job 26:10). In nominal forms, the same root occurs four times, three as the noun חוּג (chug; Job 22:14, Prov 8:27, Isa 40:22), and once as the noun מְחוּגׇה (mechugah; Isa 44:13). This term refers to a "circle instrument," a device used to make a circle, what we call a compass.

Isaiah 44:13 refers to this "circle instrument."

Isa 44:13 The carpenter stretches a line, marks it out with a stylus, fashions it with planes, and marks it with a compass; he makes it in human form, with human beauty, to be set up in a shrine. [NIV]


Interestingly, only a spherical object appears as a circle from every angle of view.
But what's more important is, anyone who knows that the object is a sphere, knows that no matter what angle you're looking from, that object itself remains to be the shape of a sphere and not a circle. So, again, was God that ignorant of geometric objects that he thought the earth and changed shape from a sphere to a circle?

But a flat disk would more often appear as an ellipse, not a circle. Go look at the flat earth picture that you posted prior. It shows an ellipse, not a circle.
Hahaha.
Apparently, you're so desperate to get out of your hole that you're willing to do anything, even at the risk of burying yourself. Okay then.

Because you can't defend your argument, you decided to attack, not my points that I raised, but the illustrated picture that I posted up? What did you think you were going to achieve by attacking a picture that I posted up that wasn't even intended to be an accurate depiction of what the flat earthers believe the earth supposed to look like?

It was entertaining and I had fun, but it's time to put the final nail in your coffin and bury your claim for good. This is what you initially claimed....
The Bible is different from any other book in that it's Author is God. (1 Thessalonians 2:13) (2 Peter 1:21) The result is a book that is accurate.
Apparently, since the bible was authored by God himself, it resulted in a book that was so accurate, it depicted the earth as being a circle or a sphere. Your exact words are quoted below.

The shape of the earth, as revealed by God to the prophet Isaiah, is indeed a circle or sphere.

Sorry to have to break the news for you but your God proved that he was wrong. I'll use the same evidence as you did, the bible. So your God is omniscient and yet, he didn't know that the earth is not a sphere, instead it's sphereroid in shape. :facepalm:

What a big fail. But don't worry, look at the bright side, you were able to prove and finally put an end to the debate on whether or not the bible is infallible. The bible is infallible because it gave a wrong depiction of what the actual shaps of the earth is. Congratulations for your work on proving that the bible is infallible. :clapping::clapping:
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Jehovah God, our Grand Instructor, deeply desires us to listen to him before it's too late so that we may enjoy everlasting life.
The woman searched for the lost coin until she found it.
The shepherd searched for the lost sheep until it was found.
The father waited for his son until he returned.
There is no “too late.”

If it were ever “too late,” that would infer a God who gives up on us. But we’re promised that God’s love endures for ever, snd that God remains steadfast for ever.

If it were ever “too late,” that would infer a God who is either 1) unable to save us, indicating that God is not omnipotent, 2) unwilling to save us, indicating that God does not love us, or 3) that God’s will does not prevail.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Bible does not say the earth is flat and of course it wouldn't since God created the earth and knows full well its shape. The shape of the earth, as revealed by God to the prophet Isaiah, is indeed a circle or sphere. This fact contradicted the popular and erroneous idea of mankind during that time that the earth was flat.
Actually, it does. In Genesis 1, the word translated as “firmament” is the Hebrew raqiya. That word literally translates “a hammered-out bowl.” The text clearly indicates that the sky is bowl-shaped. That must infer a disc-shaped earth, because a bowl will only cover a bowl; it cannot cover a sphere. The Bible indicates that the earth is disc-shaped.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Kindness and grace by christians is from death/sacrifice. Kindness by Dharma is by life/practice.

Kindess to one religion leads to God. Kindness by another leads to full wisdom by human effort.

Kindness and love are lone wolves in any religions. It's defined and the result of their practice and tradition. Practice and tradition are opposing forces in many religions...pagan, abrahamic, eastern, eclectic, etc, examples.


It's a huge misconception love is shared spiritually between all people. If your love is death and blood of a person and the other a life of valued practice, where's the middle ground?
Wait... what?

Where did you get that kindness and grace are from death and sacrifice in the Christian milieu?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Bible does not teach that there are many paths or religions that lead to God.

The Bible teaches that there is only one path and one faith that leads to God. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

The cramped road, or the right way to worship God, leads to everlasting life. (Matthew 7:14)

The spacious broad road, or the wrong way to worship God, leads to death. (Matthew 7:13)

Jesus said we can identify those who worship God in the right way by examining what they believe and what they do. (Matthew 7:16-17) This doesn't mean that those who worship God are perfect, but God's servants always try to do what is right.

Those who worship God the right way will:

1. Base what they teach on the Bible not on human ideas, traditions, or anything else. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

2. Worship only Jehovah and teach others his name. (Psalm 83:18)

3. Have genuine love for people. (John 13:35)

4. Obey Jesus because he is the way to God. (John 3:36)

5. Not get involved in politics. (John 18:36)

6. Preach that only God's Kingdom will solve the world's problems. (Matthew 24:14)
But God is love. Love is broad, deep, and high according to the Bible. Nothing can separate us from the love of God.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Wait... what?

Where did you get that kindness and grace are from death and sacrifice in the Christian milieu?

That's basic christian doctrine. I don't express it the same way christians do. They tend to have their own language and terms to relay the same concept.

Grace, faith, and all of that I would think be by his life, death, and resurrection... is that not how you are saved? By the love of christ?

Are you saved by christ's life/death/resurrection (sacrifice of the body so you can live forever with his father)?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Has God created the thoughts ,actions, deeds ,lifestyle, Job and all the decisions you have made up till now ? Or are you freely choosing ? Are you responsible?
If God is all knowing, God certainly created every aspect of my existence. I'd like to believe in freewill, it really feels like I make these decisions, but I just don't see where it fits in.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That's basic christian doctrine. I don't express it the same way christians do. They tend to have their own language and terms to relay the same concept.

Grace, faith, and all of that I would think be by his life, death, and resurrection... is that not how you are saved? By the love of christ?

Are you saved by christ's life/death/resurrection (sacrifice of the body so you can live forever with his father)?
No, not in my considered view. Jesus’ death has little to do with the process. We live in God here, now. We don’t need to die in order to “be with God.”
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That’s a rather poetic construction. Jesus’ flesh was not “sin.” Otherwise, the bread we eat in Eucharist could not be his body.

How I read it and experienced it in the church was jesus took the sins of humanity in his flesh (his body) and by his blood (his sacrifice) christians are saved. So, when a christian takes the bread (his body) and the wine (his blood), they are literally taking in his passion.

With him/in him/through him... type of thing. You are one with christ through his mass.

So eating of the Bread and drinking the Wine is the actual communion "sitting at his table." When the priest blesses the bread and wine to be christ's flesh and blood, they no longer just sit at a physical communion but "dine" or commune by sacrificing their sins in order to be saved through his blood.

When more than one come together, christ is present.

It has an intense meaning behind it.
 

Praise Jah

Psalm 83:18
No, God does not lie. The prophecies for the return of Christ were all fulfilled in the mid to late19th century. There is nothing to wait for anymore. The Kingdom of God on earth is not coming down from heaven at some future date, nor will an earthly Kingdom be orchestrated by Jesus from heaven, as Jesus said that His Kingdom of not of this world (John 18:36-37). What humanity needed to build the Kingdom of God on earth was revealed by Baha'u'llah in His Writings and that Kingdom is in the process of being built by humans right now.

Everlasting life to a Baha'i means coming to know Baha'u'llah who God sent in 1852 with a new Revelation from God, and to obey all the ordinances He has revealed.

“The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. “No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

The love of God to a Baha'i means that we obey God and do his will and exercise faith in Baha'u'llah and all the other Messengers of God, including Jesus.

God has appointed nobody to judge because only God can judge anyone. We are presently living in The Day of Judgment

Indeed God desires us to listen to what He revealed through Baha'u'llah and recognize Baha'u'llah before it's too late so that we may enjoy everlasting life.
Satan is the ruler of this wicked world. (1 John 5:19) God's Kingdom is no part of this wicked world ruled by Satan. Satan has been judged and will be cast out. (John 12:31)

God's Kingdom is a government located in heaven that is set up by God (Daniel 2:44) (Daniel 7:13-14) not humans. (Jeremiah 17:5) Once Satan is cast out, God's Kingdom will rule over the earth and establish God's will of peace on earth. (Matthew 6:10) (Psalms 37:10-11) (Psalms 37:29)

Jehovah God has given no other name than that of his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, for our salvation. (Acts 4:12)

Jehovah God has appointed his Son, Jesus Christ, to judge. (John 5:22)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That’s Substitutionary Atonement. It’s one construct, but not the only one, or, IMO, the best.

I'm not sure the difference. I was reading what substitutional atonement is: Jesus Christ died in the place of sinners as our substitute so that that death sentence could be nullified.

Unless christ didn't die for christian's sins, I would think if it says christ died in place, it was in means of his life/death/sacrifice. Sacrificing meaning giving something of value for the benefit of something (or someone) else. So, if christ died or sacrifice himself for the benefit or salvation of christians, I'm not sure how that's different than saying christ was a substitute to receive punishment where punishment was die to christians.

The nature of the sacrifice is, in part, the punishment and that's how he died.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Satan is the ruler of this wicked world. (1 John 5:19) God's Kingdom is no part of this wicked world ruled by Satan. Satan has been judged and will be cast out. (John 12:31)
There is no 'being' called Satan. The reference to Satan in the Bible means the natural inclinations of the lower nature in man. This lower nature in man is symbolized as Satan—the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside.
God's Kingdom is a government located in heaven that is set up by God (Daniel 2:44) (Daniel 7:13-14) not humans. (Jeremiah 17:5) Once Satan is cast out, God's Kingdom will rule over the earth and establish God's will of peace on earth. (Matthew 6:10) (Psalms 37:10-11) (Psalms 37:29)
God's Kingdom will be an earthly kingdom that is built by humans. It will be a new world order.

All you have to do is look around the world and you can see the old world order crumbling and the new world order rising in its stead. This new world order was ushered in by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah but it will be built by humans.
Toward a New World Order?

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness.......
Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7
Jehovah God has given no other name than that of his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, for our salvation. (Acts 4:12)
There is another name and the name is Baha'u'llah, which means the Glory of God in Arabic and which fulfills all the Bible prophecies for the return of Christ.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Jehovah God has appointed his Son, Jesus Christ, to judge. (John 5:22)
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

God entrusted Jesus to judge during the Christian dispensation but we are now living in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah, so God has entrusted Baha'u'llah to judge. Whoever does not honor the Baha'u'llah does not honor the Father, who sent him.
 
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