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Caitlyn Jenner says transgender girls in women’s sports is ‘unfair’

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Why?
Was she ever a transgender girl in woman's sport? Because I'm sure there are some transgender girls in women's sport who have a view.
Did she ever compete against transgender women in girls sport? Because I'm pretty sure there are women who have, with a view.

Do you think her stated opinions will be unbiased by her political aspirations? Why?
i can't seem to understand why she's a member of a party that is at this very moment working diligently across the country to limit the rights of trans people.

I'm sure its political. But her speaking out as a male about women sports is correct in my opinion.
If you disagree why don't we see transgender relating to being male's playing in the NFL? Because the male's would crush and destroy them.
Do you know of any examples of this actually occurring? Are there a ton of examples of trans people dominating and overpowering cis members of any sports?
Like, is this even a real issue?
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
It's really not. At least, not once you get past an unavoidable layer of bigots on this issue.
We have people in this thread talking about trans women having "male bodies" as if transition did not have a strong physical component - in fact, requirement, by law - that would render this argument flat out absurd, because to these people, apparently being born male conveys some kind of inherent male essence to a body regardless of its shape, size, or hormonal makeup.

Tell me how that is not simply an argument against the feminity of trans women with a few extra steps.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
What, that the sexes have distinct competitions in sport because of physical rather than psychological differences?

Here's one example ─ golf ─ that you might consider addresses the point.
No, that these differences were the overt or hidden primary motivation behind the creation of women's divisions in sports. And if female physical inferiority is the reason for women's divisions in sports, then how do we explain women's divisions in chess, motor sports, or other competitions that aren't strictly athletic in nature?
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Do you really think this is what happens?

I did a bit of high school sports. The only testing I ever had to do was demonstrate that I could tread water for 5 minutes in order to be on the dragon boat team.

Edit: and as an adult, I've participated in motorsports and competitive cycling events that have been subject to WADA rules. I've never had to have blood drawn or pee into a cup. Some motorsport events have had a morning breathalyzer test, but that's it.

Recreational sport is not regulated in the same manner as elite/ professional sport,

I am sure the same would be true over matters of gender. It will only become so, if the issue affects the sport and the participation.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Recreational sport is not regulated in the same manner as elite/ professional sport,
This thread started with high school sport, not elite or professional sport.

I am sure the same would be true over matters of gender. It will only become so, if the issue affects the sport and the participation.
Why would that be?

And you know what affects participation in sport? Excluding whole categories of people.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Well I think Caitlyn would know if anyone would.

"Caitlyn Jenner, the former Olympic champion and reality TV personality now running for California governor, said she opposes transgender girls competing in girls’ sports at school.

Jenner, a 1976 decathlon Olympic gold medalist who came out as a transgender woman in 2015, told a TMZ reporter on Saturday that it’s “a question of fairness.”

“That’s why I oppose biological boys who are trans competing in girls’ sports in school. It just isn’t fair. And we have to protect girls’ sports in our schools,” Jenner said Saturday during a brief interview in a Malibu parking lot."

Caitlyn Jenner: Transgender girls in women’s sports is ‘unfair’
So? One person, who plans to run as a Republican btw, does not a consensus make.


BTW, I believe the local jurisdictions should decide this as I'm not a fan of "one size fits all".
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
i can't seem to understand why she's a member of a party that is at this very moment working diligently across the country to limit the rights of trans people.
I've read that she favors progressive & fiscal responsibility values.
So she'd fit well in neither party. But those 2 parties are the only
ones in which she could become governor. So she likely picked
the one that best fits. There are many more issues that just trans.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
We have people in this thread talking about trans women having "male bodies" as if transition did not have a strong physical component - in fact, requirement, by law - that would render this argument flat out absurd, because to these people, apparently being born male conveys some kind of inherent male essence to a body regardless of its shape, size, or hormonal makeup.

Tell me how that is not simply an argument against the feminity of trans women with a few extra steps.

You want me to defend the position of other people?
Why would I do that?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No, that these differences were the overt or hidden primary motivation behind the creation of women's divisions in sports.
How do you explain the division, then?
And if female physical inferiority is the reason for women's divisions in sports, then how do we explain women's divisions in chess, motor sports, or other competitions that aren't strictly athletic in nature?
I dare say we can partly explain them by the existence of a tradition of separation of male and female competitions.

But it also seems to be the case ─ you may know of research to the contrary ─ that success in combat sports including chess and motor racing and so on is related to testosterone and the aggression it can generate. According to Wikipedia, "On average, in adult males, levels of testosterone are about seven to eight times as great as in adult females." That might explain why fewer girls are attracted to chess, and why of those who are, only one, Judit Polgár, has ever reached the top flight. I haven't followed motor sport closely, but if the argument be valid for chess then it would be valid for motor sport and other examples.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Would it be any worse than what would happen to me (a cis man, also around 215 pounds) in that situation?

Seems to me that merely being trans or cis isn't as major a factor as you're making it out to be.
Would it be ok for this group to lift in women weight lifting?
Why or why not?

IMG_20210505_173311.jpg
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Seeing how you had to make up fake people to hate and complain about, should we take this as a sign that you don't have any concerns that are rooted in reality?
It's odd that you'd make the conversation about his hating
people, rather than about the issue. Of all posters on RF, he
seems to be more tolerant to all...even me. I detect no hatred.
Perhaps some see such a mirage to satisfy a personal need?
Arguments cannot be won by demonizing the opposition.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
We have people in this thread talking about trans women having "male bodies" as if transition did not have a strong physical component - in fact, requirement, by law - that would render this argument flat out absurd, because to these people, apparently being born male conveys some kind of inherent male essence to a body regardless of its shape, size, or hormonal makeup.

Tell me how that is not simply an argument against the feminity of trans women with a few extra steps.
It's common for trans people to be insulted and dehumanized in these discussions. We're often discussed in the abstract, as if we're not here on the board, too. Very invasive discussions about our bodies, organs, etc. It's ****ed up but that's how it is. I don't see why cis people are so obsessed over it. It's gross. They wouldn't like it if someone discussed them in the same way, but it's cool to objectify us. I mean, let's hear all about their bits and pieces. Let them whip out what's in their pants, skirt or dress so we can be totally sure. (As if that means anything because genital surgery is a thing.)
 
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