Christian: Are Christians forgetting that Jesus IS God Himself?

I teach a Bible-study class to 6th-8th graders in preparation for their affirmation of their baptism in a ceremony we call Confirmation. I have done this for many years.

I have absolutely NOTHING against the Trinity doctrine because my Lord Jesus is the one who talked about baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But here is the problem: I believe that because of our teachings many new Christians incorrectly see three thrones in Heaven - the big throne on which sits the Father, the medium size throne on which sits Jesus, and the smallest throne on which sits the Holy Spirit. And yet, we tell them that we worship ONE GOD, which we do.

The Trinity has been a confusing concept for all of Christendom. I believe that Jesus used this imagery to help us begin to understand how God could be in many different places and in many different times - all at the same time. God is not bound by specific place and time as we are. Until recently, we had no concept of the possibility of other dimensions outside of our familiar three dimensional world. This is beginning to change as our cutting edge scientists theorize "string theory" and "quantum mechanics."

But back to our Christian faith. We teach that God sent His Son Jesus into the world to redeem the world through His innocent death on the cross. But we also teach that Jesus IS God and we profess this truth in our creeds. However, we rarely put these two concepts together to get the full and beautiful picture of what God did for us. It was GOD HIMSELF who was born in that manger to live among men. It was GOD HIMSELF who died on that cross. (And Yes - you people of Islam who laugh at this truth - God CAN be in Heaven ruling AND be on that cross DYING at the same time. God can die and live at the same time. Why? Because He is God.)

God did not send another being to die on the cross for us. He came Himself and died for us. That is the powerful and wonderful truth. Why do our teachings not adequately reflect this??????

One of my favorite scriptures:

Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon. 8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, 11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

No we can't fully understand God, but we can still try!!!

I agree with your concept of the trinity.

Christy said:

Why do our teachings not adequately reflect this??????

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Probably because, as finite human beings, we cannot even begin to adequately understand the concept of eternity, omniprescense, trinity, etc. But I agree, we can still try!

Christy said:

I teach a Bible-study class to 6th-8th graders in preparation for their affirmation of their baptism in a ceremony we call Confirmation. I have done this for many years.

I have absolutely NOTHING against the Trinity doctrine because my Lord Jesus is the one who talked about baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But here is the problem: I believe that because of our teachings many new Christians incorrectly see three thrones in Heaven - the big throne on which sits the Father, the medium size throne on which sits Jesus, and the smallest throne on which sits the Holy Spirit. And yet, we tell them that we worship ONE GOD, which we do.

The Trinity has been a confusing concept for all of Christendom. I believe that Jesus used this imagery to help us begin to understand how God could be in many different places and in many different times - all at the same time. God is not bound by specific place and time as we are. Until recently, we had no concept of the possibility of other dimensions outside of our familiar three dimensional world. This is beginning to change as our cutting edge scientists theorize "string theory" and "quantum mechanics."

But back to our Christian faith. We teach that God sent His Son Jesus into the world to redeem the world through His innocent death on the cross. But we also teach that Jesus IS God and we profess this truth in our creeds. However, we rarely put these two concepts together to get the full and beautiful picture of what God did for us. It was GOD HIMSELF who was born in that manger to live among men. It was GOD HIMSELF who died on that cross. (And Yes - you people of Islam who laugh at this truth - God CAN be in Heaven ruling AND be on that cross DYING at the same time. God can die and live at the same time. Why? Because He is God.)

God did not send another being to die on the cross for us. He came Himself and died for us. That is the powerful and wonderful truth. Why do our teachings not adequately reflect this??????

Click to expand...

Wasn't it Jesus who called God His Father seperating the two...we didn't just make it up....is it so wrong to see the trinity as a triangle of power?

I don't think its wrong, but we can't just say a triangle of power and leave it at that. I mean, that's the whole point, it is a triangle of power, but it's also just one unit of power. Its confusing and my brain is swelling up....

You know,

Christians should learn a simple little phrase... it's just a few words long:


It does wonders for your soul, and allows God to work within you. When it comes to certain passages that I just can't figure out, I find that I ascribe to the "Panalennia Deos Theory". It's all gonna pan out just the way God wants it to. I can stop worrying now for God is in control.

Lol, NetDoc. I like that...

Here's something I've heard described about the Trinity---as a triune being, God demonstrates to us probably the most important aspect of existence: relationship. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in a perfect, loving relationship. They are separate, and yet one. We, the Body of Christ, are also separate, and yet one. Because of relationship. It's not a perfect analogy, of course, for God-in three-persons will always be beyond our human understanding, but it's a way to grasp it a tiny bit.

Thanks to all who are responding to this "question" of mine about the Trinity.

Net Doc: I agree with you that all is ultimately in the hands of God and that we should not worry about concepts we simply do not understand.
But - as I mentioned in my original post, my concern is about our teaching. Saying that God sent a substitute to die in our place and that substitute is His Son is an extremely powerful and loving statement. But - not as powerful as the ultimate truth that
God Himself came down and died on that cross and felt every stinging offense against His holy body.

I listened to a very intriguing radio program several nights ago. It was Coast to Coast Am with a guest named Anne Foerst who is a theologian and also an expert in the field of robots. (A very interesting combination, would you agree?) Anyway, she said that God has given us many metaphors concerning Himself. One metaphor is Jesus. Jesus is God in human form and because of Jesus we feel much more comfortable communicating with God because we feel like we are communicating with another human. Another metaphor, she said, is the Trinity. This metaphor helps us to begin to understand the complexity -

and yes, as you said, my friend HOPE-

the Relationship that is our God

This is all so interesting to me!

You know...

It's not so much a "TRIANGLE OF POWER, POWER, POWER", as it is a triangle of Love. Hope is spot on, as far as I understand the scriptures.

fromthe heart said:

Wasn't it Jesus who called God His Father seperating the two...we didn't just make it up....is it so wrong to see the trinity as a triangle of power?

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I don't know if it's wrong, but when I think of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they are one in my mind so there's no triangle.

Melody

One good way to test one's understanding of the Trinity is to test it against the Nicene Creed (the final revised version in Constantinople, thus lacking the Filioque). It pretty much deals with any poor notion...

EDIT:

It is here http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/liturgical_texts/creed.asp

No*s (One day, you gotta 'splain yo name)

You and I agree on so much... but to a logos purist like myself, additional "creeds" and writings are anathema.

NetDoc said:

No*s (One day, you gotta 'splain yo name)

You and I agree on so much... but to a logos purist like myself, additional "creeds" and writings are anathema.

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Ah, but remember, claims like "No creed but the Bible" are creeds in themselves .

However, on my name, the "*" replaces one of the extended ASCII (an "o" with a diaresis on top of it). Unfortunately, it doesn't display that, but it did create a unique name. Noos (imagine the diaresis) is the uncontracted Homeric form of the later attic nous. It meant "mind," was later used by the philosophers to refer to the world mind (i.e. God), but didn't mean the calculating mind and later came closer to "heart," but it never lost its emphasis on "mind."

In short, I use it to represent my assertion that heart and mind should be one...and this cannot always be done through calculation.

Ah, but remember, claims like "No creed but the Bible" are creeds in themselves .

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Excepting that I find this "creed" in the scriptures.

I go one step further and say that "christian" is not an accurate title for one who believes in Jesus

I go one step further and say that "christian" is not an accurate title for one who believes in Jesus

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And this is predicated on what???

Here's something I've heard described about the Trinity---as a triune being, God demonstrates to us probably the most important aspect of existence: relationship. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in a perfect, loving relationship. They are separate, and yet one. We, the Body of Christ, are also separate, and yet one. Because of relationship. It's not a perfect analogy, of course, for God-in three-persons will always be beyond our human understanding, but it's a way to grasp it a tiny bit.

Click to expand...

:jiggy: Yes...exactly what I was trying to say...so in that sense there is a trinity of 1 but yet of 3. So in that light you can't just say we shouldn't look at the Trinity and say it has no merit. God can be everywhere and anywhere...it's impossible for the human mind to comprehend all that is in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

NetDoc said:

Excepting that I find this "creed" in the scriptures.

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Where?

Acts 11:26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. NIV

Next question...

The first car is in the Bible too.

Christy said:

I teach a Bible-study class to 6th-8th graders in preparation for their affirmation of their baptism in a ceremony we call Confirmation. I have done this for many years.

I have absolutely NOTHING against the Trinity doctrine because my Lord Jesus is the one who talked about baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But here is the problem: I believe that because of our teachings many new Christians incorrectly see three thrones in Heaven - the big throne on which sits the Father, the medium size throne on which sits Jesus, and the smallest throne on which sits the Holy Spirit. And yet, we tell them that we worship ONE GOD, which we do.

The Trinity has been a confusing concept for all of Christendom. I believe that Jesus used this imagery to help us begin to understand how God could be in many different places and in many different times - all at the same time. God is not bound by specific place and time as we are. Until recently, we had no concept of the possibility of other dimensions outside of our familiar three dimensional world. This is beginning to change as our cutting edge scientists theorize "string theory" and "quantum mechanics."

But back to our Christian faith. We teach that God sent His Son Jesus into the world to redeem the world through His innocent death on the cross. But we also teach that Jesus IS God and we profess this truth in our creeds. However, we rarely put these two concepts together to get the full and beautiful picture of what God did for us. It was GOD HIMSELF who was born in that manger to live among men. It was GOD HIMSELF who died on that cross. (And Yes - you people of Islam who laugh at this truth - God CAN be in Heaven ruling AND be on that cross DYING at the same time. God can die and live at the same time. Why? Because He is God.)

God did not send another being to die on the cross for us. He came Himself and died for us. That is the powerful and wonderful truth. Why do our teachings not adequately reflect this??????

Click to expand...

I agree on some points, But I think God's teachings do reflect this,
The command to baptise is the name of the Father,Son, and Holy Ghost alone teaches this.
That's why Name is not in plural, but singular form.
3 names, Only one God.
In John 1,
In the beginning was the Word(Capital W) And the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. (skip to verse 3) All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.(Still speaking of the Word=God=Jesus) Jump to verse 14. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Now if the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us(Jesus) The Word=God=Jesus.

The Comforter= The Holy Spirit, another part of 1 God, that he gave to dwell inside of his children, to help, comfort, and strengthen ignorant, sinful man.

Plain and simple 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

In Genesis 1:26 it says And God said let US make man in our image. Genesis 11:7 is God speaking again he says let US go down.
Now either God is talking to himself, Or there is more than one God, Or there is 3 in one (Our minds are not Gods mind and just because someone can't comprehend God having 3 differant parts does not say a thing, We can't comprehend it on this earth so it must be false? God is not of this earth and ANYTHING is possible with God) John 10:33 I and my Father are ONE.
Deuteronomy 6:4 The Lord our God is one Lord.

There will always be people who will deny the trinity because the things of the spirit of God are foolishness to the natural man. 1 Corinthians 2:14-15.

And the devil just loves the confusion of a natural man trying to explain things he cannot understand, because he cannot spiritually discern them, when he doesn't even have the Spirit inside of him.

All I can say is teach these kids in it, and how to defend it, If they are saved they will not veiw it as "foolishness" but as the truth, and will tell others why we know that God is 3in1 .