Question to Catholics: Is Adolf Hitler a Christian?

ecco said:

I said...
Regarding Hitler, I have stated in many threads that he used the teachings of (Protestant) Christian leader Martin Luther to inflame Christian (Protestant and Catholic) Germans against the Jews.

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Which is why I pointed out Luther's teaching were hardly the best way to persuade Catholics

What are your views on the difference between the racial antisemitism of Hitler that focused on removing Jews from Germany and later the 'final solution' and the theological antisemitism of Luther that focused on converting them into "good Christians"?

Where do you think Hitler's racial antisemitism came from?

ecco said:

If Christians were just followers of Christ, they would have thrown out the OT as Marcion had wanted. Christians did not throw out the OTY. Therefore, Christians may also use the teachings of the OT in deciding their actions.




The Bible itself commands us on how to treat our slaves.



Apparently not all Bahai's love their enemies. So, further explanation is needed.

Bahá'í and Subud Dissent​

Less similar has been the response of the objects of their reform: Bahá'í authorities have reacted defensively, with further purges, and attacks on the credibility of their critics; while Subud institutions have apparently done nothing, either to punish critics or to address their concerns.​

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The Bahá’í Faith, in its laws and teachings revealed by Baha’u’llah Himself, includes laws against trying to create a schism or sect and divide the Baha’i Faith into thousands of groups like Christianity.

It is very rarely that this occurs, but trying to create another Bahá’í sect or turn Bahá’í against Bahá’í, or try and turn Baha’is against the Bahá’í administration will eventually result in expulsion to protect the community.

thomas t said:

that's a myth.

This is the Wikipedia article listing all the people excommunicated by the CC:
List of people excommunicated by the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

we find:

• Napoleon was excommunicated June 10, 1809 by Pope Pius VII for ordering the annexation of Rome and a long period of anti-Papal orders.[63][64] Before Napoleon's death, his excommunication was lifted and he received the last rites.[65]All Catholics who participated in the creation of a Philippine Independent Church in the Philippines, in 1902[78]
• All Catholics who participated in the creation of a Philippine Independent Church in the Philippines, in 1902[78]
• Juan Perón, in 1955, after he signed a decree ordering the expulsion of Argentine bishops Manuel Tato and Ramón Novoa[84][85] In 1963 Perón was reconciled with the Church and his excommunication lifted.[86][87]

and many more.
Perón for instance, wasn't a priest.

So again: all you wrote in your post is what people could have have said in the case of Perón, too.
Yet he was excommunicated.
Hitler wasn't.

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Good point.... Priest Prophet King! These men I assume would have fallen into the King category! They "Kings" are in a position of influence I was pointing out ordinary Catholics can't teach heresy! I forgot about these Catholic' in the position of authority!
I think of the president of the United States; Joe Biden he claims to be a Catholic yet he supports the evil's of Abortion! He should be excommunicated!
The Catholic Church is jam packed full to the rafters with sinners yet the Church remains holy! No one has need for the Catholic Church if they are without sin!

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Dogknox20 said:

These men I assume would have fallen into the King category!

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if Juan Perón, as a former head of state falls into your King category for you, Hitler should be part of it, too, I think.
He was also a head of state. He even had the same teacher as Perón.
Your curch excommunicated Perón (who also murdered a lot of people, but not as much as Hitler, as far I know), but they did leave Hitler inside their ranks.
I cannot understand that.

Note that they did not even excommunicate Perón for murder as one might expect at this point, and crimes against humanity, no. They just criticised him for wronging a bishop. That's all.

So, wronging a bishop is nasty in the eyes of the RCC, mass murder is not?
Only a Catholic can grasp this, I'm afraid.

Note that I don't hate your church, I get supported generously by Catholics. I live in a traditional Catholic area. It's great here.

Hitler was not only baptized, as @metis pointed out, he even received the confirmation. So he was really integrated into your church.
This is how Catholics belive the confirmation endows the Catholics with the Holy Spirit(!):

Confirmation is a sacrament of initiation which completes baptism through sealing in Holy Spirit and anoints the recipient as priest, prophet, and king.

see Catholic Confirmation Explained - About Catholics

He was not just some baby that the Catholics made recieve the bath... there was more to it, as I see it. He was among your priests, prophets and kings!

Dogknox20 said:

These men I assume would have fallen into the King category! They "Kings" are in a position of influence I was pointing out ordinary Catholics can't teach heresy! I forgot about these Catholic' in the position of authority!
I think of the president of the United States;

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Much to my chagrin, throughout much of Catholic history the Church aligned itself with the monarchs, whereas the latter was expected to not only support the Church financially but also through the Church's teachings. It is this latter point that's important here.

As a teacher within the Church, one must teach Catholic teachings, thus not their own. However, one may exercise their right of personal discernment as a parishioner, thus disagreeing with some even basic Catholic concepts at times.

Also, there are over 1 billion baptized Catholics even though a great many never attend mass, thus how is it possible for the Vatican to go through every single person's conduct and judge whom should be excommunicated and whom should not?

Dogknox20 said:

I think of the president of the United States; Joe Biden he claims to be a Catholic yet he supports the evil's of Abortion! He should be excommunicated!

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I don't want to divert this thread into politics, but the issue is much more complicated. Also, there's a LOT more to being "pro-life" than just the issue of abortion.

Augustus said:

Do I expect you to read 25 words that answer your question assuming you have a basic understanding of the topic you are discussing?

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Which 25 words? These...

Augustus said:

Visit any internet discussion by "Rationalists" and you'll find the whole gamut.

The Conflict Thesis, "Christian Dark Ages", "destruction of pagan learning", "Christmas/Easter is Pagan", Great Library of Alexandria, forms of the Black Legend, etc.

Basically anything about pre-modern historical Christianity commonly discussed by "New Atheist" types.

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You don't actually say anything.

ecco said:

What "Anti-Catholic pseudo history" is being promoted by Secular Humanists?

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Augustus said:

You have never seen "Rationalists" discussing the "Christian Dark Ages" for example?

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Are you suggesting the fact that there was very little scientific progress hundreds of years is "pseudo-history"? How about, instead of linking to other people's writings and charts, you explain, in your own words, why it's "pseudo-history"

Augustus said:

Which is why I pointed out Luther's teaching were hardly the best way to persuade Catholics

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I'll repeat what I said. Maybe it will sink in, though I doubt it.

ecco said:

Why the dumb smily face? Do you think I meant Hitler, when orating to German Protestants and Catholics, said...
My fellow Catholics, the wonderful leader of your Protestant brothers and sisters, Martin Luther, said: Set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn.
I said...
Regarding Hitler, I have stated in many threads that he used the teachings of (Protestant) Christian leader Martin Luther to inflame Christian (Protestant and Catholic) Germans against the Jews.
Teachings such as...

Martin Luther - "The Jews & Their Lies"
I shall give you my sincere advice:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn...
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed...
Third
Fourth
Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews.
Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping...
Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow

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Augustus said:

the theological antisemitism of Luther that focused on converting them into "good Christians"?

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Yes, Luther started out wanting to convert Jews. However, that is far from the end of the story. Didn't you know that?

loverofhumanity said:

The Bahá’í Faith, in its laws and teachings revealed by Baha’u’llah Himself, includes laws against trying to create a schism or sect and divide the Baha’i Faith into thousands of groups like Christianity.

It is very rarely that this occurs, but trying to create another Bahá’í sect or turn Bahá’í against Bahá’í, or try and turn Baha’is against the Bahá’í administration will eventually result in expulsion to protect the community.

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And those being kicked out and rejected often start their own version of the same religion. That's why there are thousands of Christian sects. That's why there are dozens of Muslim sects. Bahai, itself is an offshoot of Islam. Bahai is not immune from the same thing happening.

ecco said:

Yes, Luther started out wanting to convert Jews. However, that is far from the end of the story. Didn't you know that?

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He continued wanting to convert Jews too, didn't you know that?

What he advocated was using intimidation to "encourage" this.

What are your views on the difference between the racial antisemitism of Hitler that focused on removing Jews from Germany and later the 'final solution' and the theological antisemitism of Luther that focused on converting them into "good Christians"?

ecco said:

Are you suggesting the fact that there was very little scientific progress hundreds of years is "pseudo-history"?

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No, I'm suggesting that it is pseudo-history that there was very little scientific progress.

Thank you for illustrating the common historical illiteracy among "Rationalists" who think it is a 'fact' that there was a "Dark Age" followed by a "Renaissance".

Scholars believed that 100 or so years ago, but not any more. "Rationalists" haven't caught up yet though as the Dark Ages are a foundational myth to their worldview

It is a historical fact that there was consistent progress across the sciences throughout the Medieval period: Physics, astronomy, chemistry, medicine, etc.

One of the key factors in the later scientific revolution was the rejection of the classical natural philosophy of the Greeks in favour of a more experimental method.

Cooky said:

I'm not joking.

The CC doesn't exconmunicate people simply because they've sinned, or based on the gravity of their sins.

...There is no level of sin that one must surpass that qualifies them for excommunication. It's the rejection of pastoral guidance, that qualifies one for excomnunication, and usually, it's reserved for clergy.

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The rejection of pastoral guidance sounds to me like "contempt of court" to be wielded by the sanctimonious in "power". It is the ultimate insult to their raison d'etre, so naturally they would ostracise you to their fullest extent. I see hidden rage within the CC.

ecco said:

And those being kicked out and rejected often start their own version of the same religion. That's why there are thousands of Christian sects. That's why there are dozens of Muslim sects. Bahai, itself is an offshoot of Islam. Bahai is not immune from the same thing happening.

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I believe that you will find only one Bahá’í world community.