• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Turn abortion clinics into "Temples of Human Sacrifice"?

Spiderman

Veteran Member

Roe Vs Wade won't be overturned. I think the voices in my head have an idea, and it would be a big step in the right direction. We turn abortion clinics into "Temples of Human Sacrifice" to a Deity that we simply call "IT".

I mean, the Catholic Church made the infants slaughtered by Herod canonized Saints called "Holy Innocents". God wanted his only son to wear a crown of thorns , be flogged, and nailed to a cross to atone for sin. God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and was extremely proud of him for getting ready to sacrifice a human being.

Why not sacrifice unwanted unborn children legally in a way that spares the child a lifetime of suffering, makes a Saint out of the child, and potentially atones for the sins of the world ( according to some theologians)?

The mother is to name the sacrificed unborn baby and write the name in a book of souls which is placed in a Honden when filled up like the Japanese do at Yasukuni shrine and they become "Holy Innocents" and we venerate them like they are Saints and they become American heroes (Infantry). Would that be morally sound from a Theist perspective?

Obviously atheists would object because it would identify that we are sacrificing the infants to an unseen sentient being, and we are claiming the fetus has a Soul/Spirit, but Theologically , Theists have sacrificed their unwanted infants to Deities since before Abraham got famous for trying to kill his child on an altar.

If we acknowledge a fetus has an eternal soul, sounds to me like Theologically speaking we have made a step in the right direction. Thoughts?
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I mean , if I am aborted, I'd also prefer I was at least a human sacrifice and given a name over what is currently done. And definitely would I rather be aborted than the vast majority of people I meet. Then to be given the honors of being enshrined in a Honden as they do at Yasukuni Shrine and returning as a sinless offering from the source from which I came sounds great.

But that's just me. I tried to return to that source when I jumped off a building. I would love to be a Spirit without a body like an Angel or something. But whatevs. Some people are glad their mother chose life.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member

Roe Vs Wade won't be overturned. I think the voices in my head have an idea, and it would be a big step in the right direction. We turn abortion clinics into "Temples of Human Sacrifice" to a Deity that we simply call "IT".

I mean, the Catholic Church made the infants slaughtered by Herod canonized Saints called "Holy Innocents". God wanted his only son to wear a crown of thorns , be flogged, and nailed to a cross to atone for sin. God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and was extremely proud of him for getting ready to sacrifice a human being.

Why not sacrifice unwanted unborn children legally in a way that spares the child a lifetime of suffering, makes a Saint out of the child, and potentially atones for the sins of the world ( according to some theologians)?

The mother is to name the sacrificed unborn baby and write the name in a book of souls which is placed in a Honden when filled up like the Japanese do at Yasukuni shrine and they become "Holy Innocents" and we venerate them like they are Saints and they become American heroes (Infantry). Would that be morally sound from a Theist perspective?

Obviously atheists would object because it would identify that we are sacrificing the infants to an unseen sentient being, and we are claiming the fetus has a Soul/Spirit, but Theologically , Theists have sacrificed their unwanted infants to Deities since before Abraham got famous for trying to kill his child on an altar.

If we acknowledge a fetus has an eternal soul, sounds to me like Theologically speaking we have made a step in the right direction. Thoughts?
There is no way to please God with human sacrifice. Jesus is the exception but he did that himself according to God's instructions.

Human sacrifice of innocents only gives Satan power to act on earth. It's like an open invitation to the worst sorts of evil spirits to come into the world.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Isn’t that a violation of the First Amendment?
I guess theoretically I was thinking if America had a dogmaless state Religion like the one in Japan.

Now could America potentially have an unofficial state Religion I don't know.

Couldn't we say abortion clinics can only legally operate under "religious freedom" and close down secular abortion clinics without violating the constitution?

Sort of like certain things are only allowed under religious freedom, so abortion becomes a religious ritual.

We never would do that and I'm being kinda sick, but Theologically speaking, it resembles what Theists have often done to unwanted children.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
There is no way to please God with human sacrifice. Jesus is the exception but he did that himself according to God's instructions.

Human sacrifice of innocents only gives Satan power to act on earth. It's like an open invitation to the worst sorts of evil spirits to come into the world.
In Scripture God is pleased ordering Israelites to massacre children and babies.

I wouldn't be so sure you can assume God doesn't have a warped evil side when you look at some of the monsters he makes and the wicked things he permits and gives the Devil permission to do.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
There is no way to please God with human sacrifice. Jesus is the exception but he did that himself according to God's instructions.

Human sacrifice of innocents only gives Satan power to act on earth. It's like an open invitation to the worst sorts of evil spirits to come into the world.
I don't think you considered that many women might keep their baby and the culture believe life begins at conception if abortion clinics were called "IT" Temples and had a big wicked Clown Statue on top.

Pennywise_Skarsgard_and_Curry.png


Or we could scratch the clown idea and offer them to Lady Libertatis.

Whoever we sacrifice them to, it would actually save the lives of babies potentially because it sends the message "life begins at conception".

Besides, God loves evil Spirits. He made them and let's them run wild. He fights them, but that's because it entertains him.

The Antichrist is part of God's plan.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I guess theoretically I was thinking if America had a dogmaless state Religion like the one in Japan.

Now could America potentially have an unofficial state Religion I don't know.

Couldn't we say abortion clinics can only legally operate under "religious freedom" and close down secular abortion clinics without violating the constitution?

Sort of like certain things are only allowed under religious freedom, so abortion becomes a religious ritual.

We never would do that and I'm being kinda sick, but Theologically speaking, it resembles what Theists have often done to unwanted children.
I think that’s worse. America is supposed to be a secular country, refusing rights based on religious affiliation or lack thereof is totalitarian. And well the US being a superpower, that’s not a good precedent to set
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I think that’s worse. America is supposed to be a secular country, refusing rights based on religious affiliation or lack thereof is totalitarian. And well the US being a superpower, that’s not a good precedent to set
America used to put abortion Doctors in prison though.

Okay, perhaps it's worse. I admit it's disturbing if we did that.

From a Theological perspective it actually would technically be better though because it is a declaration of the existence of a God or gods, and it does teach our young people that unborn babies have souls, without making abortion illegal.

In fact , it has the potential to sanctify abortion by making essentially Holy innocent Saints of the infants and enshrining and honoring them as patron Saints and guardian Angels of the country.

It would embrace all Religions because Shinto mixes with every Religion and Doctrine perfectly.

It also has the potential to decrease the likelihood of America going down the road of the Soviet Union and becoming a completely secular Socialist nation.

I see America imploding.

I live where George Floyd was murdered and businesses were burned and looted with police refusing to respond to 911 calls and tanks and checkpoints set up by the national guard.

While this was going on the White House got stormed and people killed.

The country is showing signs of dying , with a huge incarceration rate and rampant crime. Historically corrupt regimes seize power in times like this. I'm not saying it will happen , but often it has.

Completely secular regimes have the highest kill count.

America never was a secular nation either, we just had separation between Church and state.

It's quite secular now, and with that has come a rise in suicides, mental illness, crime, and moral relativism.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Roe Vs Wade won't be overturned. I think the voices in my head have an idea, and it would be a big step in the right direction. We turn abortion clinics into "Temples of Human Sacrifice" to a Deity that we simply call "IT".

I mean, the Catholic Church made the infants slaughtered by Herod canonized Saints called "Holy Innocents". God wanted his only son to wear a crown of thorns , be flogged, and nailed to a cross to atone for sin. God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and was extremely proud of him for getting ready to sacrifice a human being.

Why not sacrifice unwanted unborn children legally in a way that spares the child a lifetime of suffering, makes a Saint out of the child, and potentially atones for the sins of the world ( according to some theologians)?

The mother is to name the sacrificed unborn baby and write the name in a book of souls which is placed in a Honden when filled up like the Japanese do at Yasukuni shrine and they become "Holy Innocents" and we venerate them like they are Saints and they become American heroes (Infantry). Would that be morally sound from a Theist perspective?

Obviously atheists would object because it would identify that we are sacrificing the infants to an unseen sentient being, and we are claiming the fetus has a Soul/Spirit, but Theologically , Theists have sacrificed their unwanted infants to Deities since before Abraham got famous for trying to kill his child on an altar.

If we acknowledge a fetus has an eternal soul, sounds to me like Theologically speaking we have made a step in the right direction. Thoughts?
The "voices in your head", right?

Hmm.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
I have seen documentaries about Buddhist cemeteries for unborn and aborted babies, where a kind of "baby Buddhas" are set up, adorned with baby caps and scarves. The presenter considered this an exploitation of the mothers' guilt by Buddhist monks, but I find this a remarkable way to address the trauma the mothers likely went through.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
America used to put abortion Doctors in prison though.

Okay, perhaps it's worse. I admit it's disturbing if we did that.

Yeah, America has a responsibility. And I don’t know if it takes that responsibility seriously. I’m not American so I don’t know. I can only go based off reports of observations of the world. But to outlaw abortion under religious or secular rule is not a good look in the slightest
From a Theological perspective it actually would technically be better though because it is a declaration of the existence of a God or gods, and it does teach our young people that unborn babies have souls, without making abortion illegal.

“Soul” is a multifaceted concept, not just bound by the theological. This is again a dangerous precedence to set as a world power. Because it assumes that rights are based upon intangible and unqualified aspects. Like a soul, for instance
In fact , it has the potential to sanctify abortion by making essentially Holy innocent Saints of the infants and enshrining and honoring them as patron Saints and guardian Angels of the country.

No, it has the potential for creating religious conflict and starting holy wars, imo

It would embrace all Religions because Shinto mixes with every Religion and Doctrine perfectly.
Such optimism, I admire it. But it’s not realistic
Alas
It also has the potential to decrease the likelihood of America going down the road of the Soviet Union and becoming a completely secular Socialist nation.
I sincerely doubt it, since a “soul” is usually strongly tied with religious belief not secular notions
I see America imploding.

I do too. Just not over abortion

I live where George Floyd was murdered and businesses were burned and looted with police refusing to respond to 911 calls and tanks and checkpoints set up by the national guard.
Frustration growing will only do damage to businesses. But that a young man’s life was needlessly taken I think is the bigger tragedy. I’m sure those businesses in question have insurance so they’ll be right. Cry me a river, mate. You’re putting up businesses against a life? Really?
Come on

While this was going on the White House got stormed and people killed.
A true tragedy that the rest of the world condemned
The country is showing signs of dying , with a huge incarceration rate and rampant crime. Historically corrupt regimes seize power in times like this. I'm not saying it will happen , but often it has.
I’ve read memoirs of people from hundreds of years ago say the same thing
Just throwing that out there

Completely secular regimes have the highest kill count.
Yeah well theocracies don’t have the cleanest hands, either

America never was a secular nation either, we just had separation between Church and state.
That is literally the definition of a secular nation

It's quite secular now, and with that has come a rise in suicides, mental illness, crime, and moral relativism.
Plato was saying that in the ancient times. Meh
 

Altfish

Veteran Member

Roe Vs Wade won't be overturned. I think the voices in my head have an idea, and it would be a big step in the right direction. We turn abortion clinics into "Temples of Human Sacrifice" to a Deity that we simply call "IT".

I mean, the Catholic Church made the infants slaughtered by Herod canonized Saints called "Holy Innocents". God wanted his only son to wear a crown of thorns , be flogged, and nailed to a cross to atone for sin. God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and was extremely proud of him for getting ready to sacrifice a human being.

Why not sacrifice unwanted unborn children legally in a way that spares the child a lifetime of suffering, makes a Saint out of the child, and potentially atones for the sins of the world ( according to some theologians)?

The mother is to name the sacrificed unborn baby and write the name in a book of souls which is placed in a Honden when filled up like the Japanese do at Yasukuni shrine and they become "Holy Innocents" and we venerate them like they are Saints and they become American heroes (Infantry). Would that be morally sound from a Theist perspective?

Obviously atheists would object because it would identify that we are sacrificing the infants to an unseen sentient being, and we are claiming the fetus has a Soul/Spirit, but Theologically , Theists have sacrificed their unwanted infants to Deities since before Abraham got famous for trying to kill his child on an altar.

If we acknowledge a fetus has an eternal soul, sounds to me like Theologically speaking we have made a step in the right direction. Thoughts?
Most abortions are natural, we call them miscarriages. Hence if you are religious god is the leading abortionist.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There is no way to please God with human sacrifice. Jesus is the exception but he did that himself according to God's instructions.
The bible disagrees with you.

Exodus 22:29-30 You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.

Joshua 6:21 They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

Read Judges 11: you'll see how the spirit of God came upon Jephthah, a deal was done, human sacrifice in exchange for military victory, God gave the military victory, Jephthah gave the human sacrifice (his daughter) and God raised Jephthah to be Judge (boss man) of Israel.

Read 2 Samuel 21: you'll see how God sent a famine, David asked God why, and God said, because Saul had unresolved bloodguilt with the Gibeonites; so David asked the Gibeonites what terms would satisfy them in this regard, they stated their terms, as a result of which seven 'sons of Saul' (two sons, five grandsons, all guiltless) were put to death by impalement "before the Lord", some administrative matters were attended to and God, satisfied, ended the famine.

There are condemnations elsewhere of human sacrifice to other gods. Nowhere is there a blanket condemnation of human sacrifice.

And Jesus is not a special case, just another example.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Roe Vs Wade won't be overturned. I think the voices in my head have an idea, and it would be a big step in the right direction. We turn abortion clinics into "Temples of Human Sacrifice" to a Deity that we simply call "IT".

I mean, the Catholic Church made the infants slaughtered by Herod canonized Saints called "Holy Innocents". God wanted his only son to wear a crown of thorns , be flogged, and nailed to a cross to atone for sin. God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and was extremely proud of him for getting ready to sacrifice a human being.

Why not sacrifice unwanted unborn children legally in a way that spares the child a lifetime of suffering, makes a Saint out of the child, and potentially atones for the sins of the world ( according to some theologians)?

The mother is to name the sacrificed unborn baby and write the name in a book of souls which is placed in a Honden when filled up like the Japanese do at Yasukuni shrine and they become "Holy Innocents" and we venerate them like they are Saints and they become American heroes (Infantry). Would that be morally sound from a Theist perspective?

Obviously atheists would object because it would identify that we are sacrificing the infants to an unseen sentient being, and we are claiming the fetus has a Soul/Spirit, but Theologically , Theists have sacrificed their unwanted infants to Deities since before Abraham got famous for trying to kill his child on an altar.

If we acknowledge a fetus has an eternal soul, sounds to me like Theologically speaking we have made a step in the right direction. Thoughts?
God has no argument with abortion or infanticide eg

Exodus 22:29-30 You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.

Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.​
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
@SomeRandom
I never said those business being burned were worse than the murder of George Floyd. Saint George Floyd is my buddy. He is like God over here. His face is painted or taped to more than half the buildings and cars drive by with stained glass windows of him. We even have a George Floyd square and streets named after him.

Also, abortion is causing all kinds of problems with women I have talked to. Many have instincts that tell them they just killed an unborn child in the womb. They should never be made to feel guilty about it , because it can be the kindest thing for the child, but they should be properly informed as well of what they are doing prior, before making the decision too.

I don't like the message planned parenthood is sending and neither do I like how racist the founder of planned parenthood was or her idea of eugenics and even her desire that "feeble minded people be sterilized".

Okay fine, some people are better off sterile. But who exactly decides who is "feeble minded".

Also, what I meant by we weren't a secular nation was it used to be we had prayer in schools and the vast majority of people were religious and spiritual. There was censorship of the media so that there wasn't some glorification of what most Religions agree on is immoral.

I admit, gangsters and violence and murder still was a problem, but not nearly what it is today.

I wouldn't be surprised if abortion is disturbing peace and harmony because of the trauma it causes but also, I think the main thing that is causing abortions in the first place is we have lost our moral compass.

There are very sick Theists as well, but typically Theists believe that when they are kind, honest, meek, humble, and charitable, it pleases the Sentient being they are devoted to , and if they go butcher innocent people and lie all the time, it displeases that heavenly being.

A secular person can be a liar, thief , and butcher of the innocent, and as long as he gets away with it, he can basically do whatever he wants because no one sees the deeds he gets away with or will reward him in this life and the next life for his good deeds (or punish him ).

Occasionally someone might reward him in this life when they see his good deeds, but typically a completely secular person isn't going to have a whole lot of strong motive to be a good person or have a moral compass.

I say that because when I was secular I had no moral compass. I have done many good deeds and been charitable primarily because I felt a Kami, Spirit, God, was asking me to. I have avoided much evil deeds and practiced self control to please those entities as well.

If anyone reading this is a good secular person with a moral compass, cheers! I know they exist. I just know I couldn't do it.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
I say.... They killed Babies at the birth of Moses!
They killed Babies at the birth of Jesus!
I say.... The death of all these aborted babies is also going to be another milestone in the world!
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
@SomeRandom
I never said those business being burned were worse than the murder of George Floyd. Saint George Floyd is my buddy. He is like God over here. His face is painted or taped to more than half the buildings and cars drive by with stained glass windows of him. We even have a George Floyd square and streets named after him.

A bit lionising but okay
Fair enough
Also, abortion is causing all kinds of problems with women I have talked to. Many have instincts that tell them they just killed an unborn child in the womb. They should never be made to feel guilty about it , because it can be the kindest thing for the child, but they should be properly informed as well of what they are doing prior, before making the decision too.
Yes, scientific based information and less judgement from judgey mcjudgepants folks who should be minding their own business would likely relieve such anxiety and stress from women. I agree

I don't like the message planned parenthood is sending and neither do I like how racist the founder of planned parenthood was or her idea of eugenics and even her desire that "feeble minded people be sterilized".

What message do they send, exactly? I’m not American so I don’t know how they advertise themselves.

And plenty of founders of things were awful people. Surprise. People (particularly in the past) had opinions that look awful in hindsight. So what?
Criticise their positions, that’s fair enough. But I’m not going to get rid of my car if I found out that it’s invented by a guy who, I dunno, hated Jews or something. You know?

Okay fine, some people are better off sterile. But who exactly decides who is "feeble minded".

qualified mental health professionals?
I dunno
Also, what I meant by we weren't a secular nation was it used to be we had prayer in schools and the vast majority of people were religious and spiritual. There was censorship of the media so that there wasn't some glorification of what most Religions agree on is immoral.
I keep hearing this and every time I mention it to my (religious minded) American relatives they scoff at it’s supposed “unconstitutional Unamerican crap.” (Their words, not mine.)
I get the distinct impression that that was due to the Cold War propaganda at the time. Merely an attempt by the government to convince the citizens that they were good, moral upstanding people, unlike those “irreligious socialists/commies.”
Old people say the same of my country but once I actually look into the implications of their arguments, really it just boils down to “we were allowed to bash gays and black folk knew their place. Now we’ve lost our moral compass. Wahhhh” Yeah, real moral guys
I’m not accusing you of such thinking. I don’t think you have such prejudice
Just that that is usually the conclusion of such “morality of the old times” arguments once you get into the nitty gritty of them

I admit, gangsters and violence and murder still was a problem, but not nearly what it is today.
Pretty sure the prohibition gangsters make ours look like Sesame Street performers
But whatever

I wouldn't be surprised if abortion is disturbing peace and harmony because of the trauma it causes but also, I think the main thing that is causing abortions in the first place is we have lost our moral compass.
Abortion is as old as civilisation itself. Lmao. People would go to “spooky” ladies in society for a “special potion” all the damned time
Like seriously were you not aware of this?

There are very sick Theists as well, but typically Theists believe that when they are kind, honest, meek, humble, and charitable, it pleases the Sentient being they are devoted to , and if they go butcher innocent people and lie all the time, it displeases that heavenly being.
They also (potentially) think gay people and trans individuals existing and given freedom is a sin. Forgive me for not taking their half hearted excuses at face value
And I say that as a spiritual person myself

A secular person can be a liar, thief , and butcher of the innocent, and as long as he gets away with it, he can basically do whatever he wants because no one sees the deeds he gets away with or will reward him in this life and the next life for his good deeds (or punish him ).

So can a theist. (Imo)
What’s your point?

Occasionally someone might reward him in this life when they see his good deeds, but typically a completely secular person isn't going to have a whole lot of strong motive to be a good person or have a moral compass.
That says more about your morality than anything about theism. That’s going to have to be a big yikes from me, my friend!

I say that because when I was secular I had no moral compass. I have done many good deeds and been charitable primarily because I felt a Kami, Spirit, God, was asking me to. I have avoided much evil deeds and practiced self control to please those entities as well.

If anyone reading this is a good secular person with a moral compass, cheers! I know they exist. I just know I couldn't do it.
If you need a Big Brother style God in order to be moral, that’s says far more about you than anyone else, imo. Nothing whatsoever about secularism vs theism. Though what’s that old joke?
“It’s not that atheists are immoral it’s that theists need more supervision.”
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
The bible disagrees with you.
Au contraire
Exodus 22:29-30 You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.
So you're suggesting that this law required human sacrifice? You can do better than that! It was clearly a symbolic sacrifice based on the idea that since God saved all the firstborns of the Hebrews in Egypt during the Passover therefore God was owed the firstborns. Since that was the case the Israelites were required to give a redemption sacrifice for every first born. If they had tried to sacrifice their firstborn instead of giving a redemption sacrifice (lamb or two birds) then they would have been guilty according to the Law of idolatry and murder.
Joshua 6:21 They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.
That was not a human sacrifice. That was about giving up spoils of war as a tithe.
Read Judges 11: you'll see how the spirit of God came upon Jephthah, a deal was done, human sacrifice in exchange for military victory, God gave the military victory, Jephthah gave the human sacrifice (his daughter) and God raised Jephthah to be Judge (boss man) of Israel.
That was because he made a foolish vow. The story is really there to teach people not to make vows. Jephthah did not have faith or he could have prayed for victory without a vow. To be honest his vow probably displeased God because maybe a dog comes out of the house first; in which case it's not a good sacrifice or maybe one of the servant girls comes out first in which case Jephthah doesn't care does he? Instead God seemed to turn the vow on it's head to teach people a lesson. Jephthah had no idea the price he would pay. His own daughter. He was selfish. Jesus says that such vows come from evil; no doubt implying Satan. (see Matthew 5:3)

In any case the story remains ambiguous as to what God really thought about it one way or the other.
Read 2 Samuel 21: you'll see how God sent a famine, David asked God why, and God said, because Saul had unresolved bloodguilt with the Gibeonites; so David asked the Gibeonites what terms would satisfy them in this regard, they stated their terms, as a result of which seven 'sons of Saul' (two sons, five grandsons, all guiltless) were put to death by impalement "before the Lord", some administrative matters were attended to and God, satisfied, ended the famine.

There are condemnations elsewhere of human sacrifice to other gods. Nowhere is there a blanket condemnation of human sacrifice.

And Jesus is not a special case, just another example.
That was the Gibeonites choice; not God's choice. The fact the Bible shows pity on the 7 seven sons of Saul (describing in a good light how a relative kept the birds off their bodies and eventually buried them) means it was not really pleasing to God. But God left the choice to the Gibeonites because it was their vengeance. Saul had perpetuated genocide against them even though they were peaceful to Israel.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So you're suggesting that this law required human sacrifice?
That's what it says, yes.
It was clearly a symbolic sacrifice based on the idea that since God saved all the firstborns of the Hebrews in Egypt during the Passover therefore God was owed the firstborns.
It makes no distinction between the humans and the animals to be sacrificed. That is, it does not say what you'd like it to say.
That was not a human sacrifice. That was about giving up spoils of war as a tithe.
That was the massacre of a population, dedicated to God.
That was because he made a foolish vow.
No. And I get weary of this deliberate misreading of the text ─ which expressly states that Jephthah made this vow while the spirit of the Lord was upon him.
No ambiguity ─ That was the Gibeonites choice; not God's choice. The fact the Bible shows pity on the 7 seven sons of Saul (describing in a good light how a relative kept the birds off their bodies and eventually buried them) means it was not really pleasing to God. But God left the choice to the Gibeonites because it was their vengeance. Saul had perpetuated genocide against them even though they were peaceful to Israel.
Again you read what you want to, not what the text says. God sent the famine, agreed to the terms, accepted the death by impalement of seven innocent people "before the Lord" and on that basis ended the famine.

The atrocities God orders in the Tanakh and NT go well beyond human sacrifice. There are massacres, mass rapes, murderous religious intolerance, rules for slavery including the proper way to sell your daughter and how to have sex with your slaves, the idea of women as property generally, and so on.

Time you read your own book instead of trying to whitewash it. The Bronze Age and early Iron Age were rough times, human sacrifice was found in Mesopotamia, Canaan, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Persia, the Celtic lands, and so on. The bible is no Goody-Two-Shoes in the game of tribal survival and internecine war.

Not till after the Babylonian captivity is there much sign of civilization. And God sending Jesus on a suicide mission as a sacrifice to God is openly stated in the NT, even though no reason why it might be necessary is ever offered.
 
Last edited:
Top