Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Subduction Zone · Apr 27, 2021

samtonga43 said:
I lost all my other debates? So this will be another false assumption, unless of course, you can put your money where your mouth is. Can you?
(You still have not told us what you think the genetic fallacy states...)

By your posts here that is what it looks like. You fail constantly at the basics. You misuse logical fallacies. You refuse to engage in polite conversation. All of those are hallmarks of someone that has been constantly on the losing side of debates.

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
LOL. Projection. Try again.

Ah well! What else can we expect?

Call it "projection", laugh loudly and hope you'll be excused your inability to respond rationally, and answer the many questions I have put to you.
(What IS the genetic fallacy?
When did I 'run away', and from what?
Please direct me to my 'fails').

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
By your posts here that is what it looks like. You fail constantly at the basics. You misuse logical fallacies. You refuse to engage in polite conversation. All of those are hallmarks of someone that has been constantly on the losing side of debates.

False Assumption, Again! When will you learn?

Subduction Zone · Apr 28, 2021

samtonga43 said:
Ah well! What else can we expect?

Call it "projection", laugh loudly and hope you'll be excused your inability to respond rationally, and answer the many questions I have put to you.
(What IS the genetic fallacy?
When did I 'run away', and from what?
Please direct me to my 'fails').

What else do you expect when you accuse others of what you are doing?

I have told you several times how you ran away. You do not get to keep repeating the same question.

Subduction Zone · Apr 28, 2021

samtonga43 said:
False Assumption, Again! When will you learn?

There you go again. It is just a broken record of fail.

I do not think that you will ever understand what an assumption is.

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Jesus was the Son of God, but the Son is not identical to the Father, even though the Father is in the Son.

Agreed. Except to say that Christ IS the Son of God, second Person of the Trinity.

Trailblazer said:
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Trailblazer said:
Jesus was a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” meaning that God is visible and manifest in Jesus.

2 Corinthians 13:14: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”
See? the grace of Christ the Son, the love of God the Father, and the fellowship or communion of the Holy Spirit. All Three are present at the same time.
God IS Father, Son, Holy Spirit
Father, Son, Holy Spirit = the Triune God.

Trailblazer said:
“I and my Father are one”

Trailblazer said:
(John 10:30) means that Jesus and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings are identical with the Will of God Himself. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same. The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God became flesh.

God preached unto the Gentiles.
Seems He did become flesh. See below...

Trailblazer said:
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory

Amen!

Trailblazer · Apr 28, 2021

samtonga43 said:
Agreed. Except to say that Christ IS the Son of God, second Person of the Trinity.

Question.—What is the meaning of the Trinity, of the Three Persons in One?

Answer.—The Divine Reality, which is purified and sanctified from the understanding of human beings and which can never be imagined by the people of wisdom and of intelligence, is exempt from all conception. That Lordly Reality admits of no division; for division and multiplicity are properties of creatures which are contingent existences, and not accidents which happen to the self-existent..............

To Continue: 27: THE TRINITY

samtonga43 said:
2 Corinthians 13:14: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”
See? the grace of Christ the Son, the love of God the Father, and the fellowship or communion of the Holy Spirit. All Three are present at the same time.
God IS Father, Son, Holy Spirit
Father, Son, Holy Spirit = the Triune God.

God is not divided into three parts, God is One. Jesus is not God and the Holy Spirit is not God.

The Baha’i Faith believes in a Trinity, and the detailed explanation is in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

Briefly, we believe that there are three separate entities involved: (1) God, (2) the Manifestation of God (Jesus), and (3) the Holy Spirit, and they work together but they are not all part of God. Jesus and the Holy Spirit reveal God, but they are not part of God.

samtonga43 said:
God preached unto the Gentiles.
Seems He did become flesh. See below...

Trailblazer said:
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory

Amen!

Yes, amen! That is one of my favorite Bible verses. It says that God was manifest in the flesh, it does not say that God was incarnated in the flesh.

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9)…..

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.

The Christian concept of the Trinity arose out of the need to explain statements such as these. The earliest Christians tended to be "binitarian," that is, they stressed the Father and the Son. The third person of the Trinity was added because of the experience of the Spirit in Christian worship and in order to explain many doxologies and expressions used in worship that included the Holy Spirit…

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
What else do you expect when you accuse others of what you are doing?

I have told you several times how you ran away. You do not get to keep repeating the same question.

SZ, if I get no answers I will repeat the same question. You are accusing me of something I have not done.
You say that you told me the answer to my question several times. So why can't you show me even ONE instance of this?

Subduction Zone · Apr 28, 2021

samtonga43 said:
SZ, if I get no answers I will repeat the same question. You are accusing me of something I have not done.
You say that you told me the answer to my question several times. So why can't you show me even ONE instance of this?

You were answered. If you can ask politely without any falsehoods I will answer again.

But I refuse to go back and dig up your repeated running away. You probably don't even remember the question that you ran away from.

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
There you go again. It is just a broken record of fail.

Can you provide evidence for this 'fail' accusation. Or is it just an empty insult as usual?

Subduction Zone said:
I do not think that you will ever understand what an assumption is.

An assumption is a thing that is accepted as true without evidence.
Do you agree?

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
You were answered. If you can ask politely without any falsehoods I will answer again.

But I refuse to go back and dig up your repeated running away. You probably don't even remember the question that you ran away from.

Of course you refuse, and anyone reading this can see WHY you refuse. I don't remember the question I repeatedly 'ran away from' because I never run away from questions. It's as simple as that.

You do realize that you are fooling no one?

Subduction Zone · Apr 28, 2021

samtonga43 said:
Can you provide evidence for this 'fail' accusation. Or is it just an empty insult as usual?

An assumption is a thing that is accepted as true without evidence.
Do you agree?

I can ask you the question that you ran away from earlier.

And the evidence is there. It is in this thread. The first time that you ran away I immediately pointed it out to you. You kept on running. My unwillingness to dig up evidence that you would likely merely deny does not mean it does not exist. It might be an assumption for you to take me at my word. Since I wrote the posts and know that they are still in this thread it would not be an assumption for me.

Subduction Zone · Apr 28, 2021

samtonga43 said:
Of course you refuse, and anyone reading this can see WHY you refuse. I don't remember the question I repeatedly 'ran away from' because I never run away from questions. It's as simple as that.

You do realize that you are fooling no one?

LOL!! More falsehoods, and an act of running away.

I gave you a reasonable alternative. If you would discuss this topic politely, without any falsehoods I would ask you the question that you ran away from again. You did not have to agree that you ran away, you only had to be polite and drop the false accusations. You refused to do that. That is an act of running away.

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Question.—What is the meaning of the Trinity, of the Three Persons in One?

Answer:
"It is on the premises of [Christ's] eternal identity as God, his eternal subsistence as the only-begotten Son, his creative activity at the beginning, and his continued activity in sustaining all created reality, that we can conceive the fact and meaning of the incarnation.

The doctrine of the incarnation is vitiated if it is conceived of as the beginning to be of the person of Christ. The incarnation means that he who never began to be in his specific identity as Son of God, began to be what he eternally was not.

The thought of incarnation is stupendous, for it means the conjunction in one person of all that belongs to Godhead and all that belongs to manhood." -

The incarnation means that he who never began to be in his specific identity as Son of God, began to be what he eternally was not”.

John Murray

Trailblazer · Apr 28, 2021

@ samtonga43
@ Subduction Zone

You two sound a little like me and my husband used to sound....

But whenever this happens anymore he says "let's just just start over."

I don't know who said what or who did what, but I suggest you two forget what was said and done before and start from scratch, that is if you still want to have a discussion.

Just my two cents FWIW.

Subduction Zone · Apr 28, 2021

Trailblazer said:
@ Subduction Zone
@ samtonga43

You two sound a little like me and my husband used to sound....
But whenever this happens anymore he says "let's just just start over."

I don't know who said what or who did what, but I suggest you two forget what was said and done before and start from scratch, that is if you still want to have a discussion.

Just my two cents FWIW.

I tried. A long while back. I tried again. Still no dice. If he drops the false narrative I will still be polite. I simply refuse to do the bidding of someone that lies about me.

Trailblazer · Apr 28, 2021

samtonga43 said:
Answer:
"It is on the premises of [Christ's] eternal identity as God, his eternal subsistence as the only-begotten Son, his creative activity at the beginning, and his continued activity in sustaining all created reality, that we can conceive the fact and meaning of the incarnation.

The doctrine of the incarnation is vitiated if it is conceived of as the beginning to be of the person of Christ. The incarnation means that he who never began to be in his specific identity as Son of God, began to be what he eternally was not.

The thought of incarnation is stupendous, for it means the conjunction in one person of all that belongs to Godhead and all that belongs to manhood." -

The incarnation means that he who never began to be in his specific identity as Son of God, began to be what he eternally was not”.

John Murray

Yes, that is Christian "doctrine."

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
LOL!! More falsehoods, and an act of running away.

No falsehoods, no running away. If you can, please back up your statements, otherwise you may be seen as running away.

Subduction Zone said:
I gave you a reasonable alternative. If you would discuss this topic politely, without any falsehoods I would ask you the question that you ran away from again. You did not have to agree that you ran away, you only had to be polite and drop the false accusations. You refused to do that. That is an act of running away.

Sorry SZ, I will not allow anyone to accuse me of something I have not done, even if it appears to you to be 'impolite'.

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
I tried. A long while back. I tried again. Still no dice. If he drops the false narrative I will still be polite. I simply refuse to do the bidding of someone that lies about me.

That last sentence could have been written by me...

samtonga43 · Apr 28, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Yes, that is Christian "doctrine."

Exactly. Christian doctrine.

Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

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