sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
There’s no arguing with one who is so obsessed with being right that s/he is willing to throw others under the bus for her/his own comfort level.
Because that’s what Jesus taught his followers to do.
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Christians Only: Why Easter is NOT the Way to Honor Christ.
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
Because that’s what Jesus taught his followers to do.
That is indeed what Jesus taught when he threw his opposers "under the bus"....he exposed religious falsehood as the "leaven" that it truly is. Did that have anything to do with his comfort level or was Jesus doing as his Father instructed him to do?
There are "wheat and weeds" sojourner...can you tell the difference? If you can't then you may well be among those who vainly make their excuses to Jesus at the judgment. (Matthew 7:21-23) It requires discernment to judge the validity of what we accept as truth, and I believe that the scriptures are all we have that is from God. Anything else is a distortion created by men....those who want to create God in their own image.
I see no reference to scripture in anything you post.....
You seem to ignore the lessons of the flood of Noah's day.....the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.....the fact that despite all the miracles witnessed by the Israelites in the desert, only two of the originals, made it into the Promised Land.
Then there are the two roads...one leading to life and the other leading to death (Matthew 7:13-14)......and what about "the sheep and the goats".....it appears that Jesus is not the 'all forgiving sop' you make him out to be. He possesses his Father's sense of justice and will act against the religious falsehoods of men accordingly. This will be another occasion where the goats are unaware of their failures until they are brought to justice.
What is "the great tribulation"? (Matthew 24:21) What is Armageddon? (Revelation 14:14, 16) You think God is indicating a smack on the wrist when the final judgment comes?
The future will indeed be interesting...
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sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
[/QUOTE]
I’m just glad God exhibits the unconditional love that your posts seem incapable of. If we are to be the imago dei, your posts are black as sin.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Uh, @Deeje, can't you get it through your thick skull. Judge not less ye be judged. 
Did you not read... "Stop judging!" Don't you know what stop means?
Just look at the fruit, and please, for the love of God, don't judge it.
That is not your call. That is for God to do.
(Matthew 7:15, 16) 15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them.. . .
Um... Tee Hee
I beg your pardon, but please pardon my ignorance... Is that scripture saying we need to be able to judge between the good and bad fruit?
looks like we need to identify the bad, in order to make a proper judgement.
I recall, Paul said, "Judge for yourselves...".
1 Corinthians 11:13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
Columbus! I got it! Persons are misapplying Matthew 7:1! They are using it as a smoke screen, just as they use Matthew 22:39, 40!
They think that the wicked deeds practiced by the "Church", which they know is unscriptural - like the bloody wars, and inquisitions, and the idolatry, can be excused by saying, "he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone"
Man, that's messed up..
No wonder jesus said what he did in verse 6, and 21-23.
Please forgive me @Deeje. I spoke in ignorance, and a lack of understanding. Shake?
Of course we don't judge people as being wicked, and we don't know whether a person is just misled, or willfully ignorant. We leave that to God... but that doesn't mean we can't judge situations - like when people put up smoke screens, and deny the obvious.
I mean, if I were catholic, and persons showed me the pictures you put up... like this one...
I would be. I mean, I would want an explanation.
If I did not get any, I would think persons don't have an answer they think is satisfactory.
I'm behind you. ... Just in case rocks start flying.
Did you not read... "Stop judging!" Don't you know what stop means?
Just look at the fruit, and please, for the love of God, don't judge it.
That is not your call. That is for God to do.
(Matthew 7:15, 16) 15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them.. . .
Um...
Tee Hee
Is that scripture saying we need to be able to judge between the good and bad fruit?
I recall, Paul said, "Judge for yourselves...".
1 Corinthians 11:13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
Columbus! I got it! Persons are misapplying Matthew 7:1! They are using it as a smoke screen, just as they use Matthew 22:39, 40!They think that the wicked deeds practiced by the "Church", which they know is unscriptural - like the bloody wars, and inquisitions, and the idolatry, can be excused by saying, "he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone"
Man, that's messed up.
.No wonder jesus said what he did in verse 6, and 21-23.
Please forgive me @Deeje. I spoke in ignorance, and a lack of understanding. Shake?
Of course we don't judge people as being wicked, and we don't know whether a person is just misled, or willfully ignorant. We leave that to God... but that doesn't mean we can't judge situations - like when people put up smoke screens, and deny the obvious.
I mean, if I were catholic, and persons showed me the pictures you put up... like this one...
I would be
. I mean, I would want an explanation.If I did not get any, I would think persons don't have an answer they think is satisfactory.
I'm behind you.
... Just in case rocks start flying.
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Its a special kind of blindness I believe....(2 Corinthians 4:3-4) This doesn't affect the eyes....but stops the truth from penetrating the mind...and in turn, the heart.I mean, if I were catholic, and persons showed me the pictures you put up... like this one...
I would be
If I did not get any, I would think persons don't have an answer they think is satisfactory.
I'm behind you.
This is not idolatry?
The River "Denial" has many paddlers.....
nPeace
Veteran Member
Yup. Blind minds. Stone heart.Its a special kind of blindness I believe....(2 Corinthians 4:3-4) This doesn't affect the eyes....but stops the truth from penetrating the mind...and in turn, the heart.
This is not idolatry?
The River "Denial" has many paddlers.....
At least Nabal had ten days before his heart stopped. (1 Samuel 25:37, 38)
nPeace
Veteran Member
It's unbelievable how far they have gone though. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was this bad.Its a special kind of blindness I believe....(2 Corinthians 4:3-4) This doesn't affect the eyes....but stops the truth from penetrating the mind...and in turn, the heart.
This is not idolatry?
The River "Denial" has many paddlers.....
Jehu or was it Josiah would have had a field day, in this time.
At least his wife acknowledged that he lived up to his name...."Sensless'
nPeace
Veteran Member
You know, I couldn't help laughing at that when I read it. Imagine your husband saying, "This worthless woman."At least his wife acknowledged that he lived up to his name...."Sensless'....and wasn't afraid to say so.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
No matter how many times it's been posted, there's a vast difference between "idolatry" and "veneration", and yet one JW after another stoops to the low of equating them as being one and the same. Dictionaries actually could help them, but instead they'll only take their marching orders from the Governing Body.
Jesus said "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life", but one simply is not dealing with the TRUTH if they perpetuate untruths.
Jesus said "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life", but one simply is not dealing with the TRUTH if they perpetuate untruths.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Behold. The Governing Body.
Perhaps they should make this a creed to be recited at every service.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Your error is that you capitalized "Governing Body", thus making appear to be its actual name.
The reality is that in Judaism the "governing body" was formed by Moshe in Exodus, and in Christianity the "governing body" was formed by Jesus with his appointing the Apostles, as he also stated that he would guide his Church until the end of times, which leaves the JW's out since your Governing Body is less than 200 years old.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Building a strawman now?
King James Bible
Exodus 20:4, 5
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exodus 23:24
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
King James Bible
Exodus 20:4, 5
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exodus 23:24
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
First of all, "graven image" is never defined in Torah nor Tanakh, thus Jewish interpretations vary widely on this.Building a strawman now?
King James Bible
Exodus 20:4, 5
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exodus 23:24
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.
Secondly, the reference is part of the Jewish Commandments, which are not all the same as the Christian Commandments. Do you keep kosher, for example? [the 613 Commandments in Torah: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
Thirdly, "veneration" is not the same as "worship".
Fourthly, do you remember what was at the top of Moses' staff that God ordered him to make? How about what He commanded must be put on the top of the Ark of the Covenant?
nPeace
Veteran Member
Ark of the Covenant
(Exodus 25:9-22)
9 You are to make it, the tabernacle and all its furnishings, following exactly the pattern that I am showing you. .... 17 “You will make a cover of pure gold, two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. 18 You are to make two cherubs of gold; you will make them of hammered work on the two ends of the cover. 19 Make the cherubs on the two ends, one cherub on each end of the cover. 20 The cherubs are to spread out their two wings upward, overshadowing the cover with their wings, and they will face each other. The faces of the cherubs will be turned toward the cover. 21 You will put the cover on the Ark, and in the Ark you will place the Testimony that I will give you. 22 I will present myself to you there and speak with you from above the cover. From between the two cherubs that are on the ark of the Testimony, I will make known to you all that I will command you for the Israelites.
(Hebrews 8:1-10:25)
1 Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister of the holy place and of the true tent, which Jehovah set up, and not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, since there are already men who offer the gifts according to the Law. 5 These men are offering sacred service in a typical representation and a shadow of the heavenly things; just as Moses, when about to construct the tent, was given the divine command: For He says: “See that you make all things after their pattern that was shown to you in the mountain.” 6 But now Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry because he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established on better promises. 7 If that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second. 8 For he does find fault with the people when he says: “‘Look! The days are coming,’ says Jehovah, ‘when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 9 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, because they did not remain in my covenant, so I stopped caring for them,’ says Jehovah. 10 “‘For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I will write them. And I will become their God, and they will become my people. ... 9 For its part, the former covenant used to have legal requirements for sacred service and its holy place on earth. 2 For a first tent compartment was constructed, in which were the lampstand and the table and the display of the loaves of presentation; and it is called the Holy Place. 3 But behind the second curtain was the tent compartment called the Most Holy. 4 This had a golden censer and the ark of the covenant completely overlaid with gold, in which were the golden jar containing the manna and Aaron’s rod that budded and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the glorious cherubs overshadowing the propitiatory cover. But now is not the time to speak of these things in detail. 6 After these things were constructed this way, the priests enter the first tent compartment regularly to perform the sacred services; 7 but the high priest enters alone into the second compartment once a year, not without blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins that the people committed in ignorance. 8 Thus the holy spirit makes it clear that the way into the holy place had not yet been revealed while the first tent was standing. 9 This tent is an illustration for the present time, and according to this arrangement, both gifts and sacrifices are offered. However, these are not able to make the conscience of the man doing sacred service perfect. 10 They have to do only with foods and drinks and various ceremonial washings. They were legal requirements concerning the body and were imposed until the appointed time to set things straight. 11 However, when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have already taken place, he passed through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 He entered into the holy place, not with the blood of goats and of young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time, and obtained an everlasting deliverance for us. 13 For if the blood of goats and of bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who have been defiled sanctifies for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works so that we may render sacred service to the living God? 15 That is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance. 16 For where there is a covenant, the death of the human covenanter needs to be established, ... 23 Therefore, it was necessary for the typical representations of the things in the heavens to be cleansed by these means, but the heavenly things require far better sacrifices. 24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf. ...10 For since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered year after year, make those who approach perfect. 2 Otherwise, would not the sacrifices have stopped being offered, because those rendering sacred service once cleansed would have no consciousness of sins anymore? 3 On the contrary, these sacrifices are a reminder of sins year after year, 4 for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take sins away.
Copper Serpent
(Numbers 21:7-9) 7 So the people came to Moses and said: “We have sinned by speaking against Jehovah and against you. Intercede with Jehovah so that he may remove the serpents from us.” And Moses interceded on behalf of the people. 8 Then Jehovah said to Moses: “Make a replica of a poisonous snake and put it on a pole. Then when anyone has been bitten, he will have to look at it in order to keep alive.” 9 Moses at once made a serpent of copper and put it on the pole, and whenever a serpent had bitten a man and he looked at the copper serpent, he survived.
(John 6:40) For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”
(John 3:13-16) 13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
Idolatry
(2 Kings 18:3-7) 3 He kept doing what was right in Jehovah’s eyes, just as David his forefather had done. 4 He was the one who removed the high places, smashed the sacred pillars, and cut down the sacred pole. He also crushed the copper serpent that Moses had made; for down to that time the people of Israel had been making sacrificial smoke to it and it used to be called the copper serpent-idol. 5 He trusted in Jehovah the God of Israel; there was no one like him among all the kings of Judah after him nor among those prior to him. 6 He held fast to Jehovah. He did not turn away from following him; he continued to keep the commandments that Jehovah had given to Moses. 7 And Jehovah was with him. Wherever he went, he acted wisely. . . .
The ark of the covenant represented Jehovah's throne in heaven. The most holy compartment represented heaven. The high priest represented Jesus' priesthood. The blood of sheep and goats represented Jesus' sacrificial blood.
The copper serpent represented Jesus sacrificial body.
Looking at it, represented faith in that sacrifice.
All these were God given instructions having to do with the old covenant where Moses was mediator, and the new covenant where Jesus was the mediator.
There was an earthly representation of the heavenly - a shadow of the reality.
The people later made the copper serpent an idol.
God hid Moses body apparently to prevent the people venerating Moses.
Venerate
great respect; reverence - (n) deep respect for someone or something; (v) regard or treat with deep respect.
Please show us the scriptures in the Bible, where Jesus instructed his followers to venerate idols, or statues, of anything - whether it be a torture stake, saint, sacred pole, etc.
Please show us the scriptures in the Bible, where Jesus instructed his followers to kiss up ...muah muah muah smooch smack...any image of anything - whether it be a torture stake, saint, sacred pole, etc., or bow down to them... or venerate them.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Note that the issue here that's what's condemned is using the serpent as an idol. This is why God could tell them to make such things-- just don't worship them.
In Catholicism, we are forbidden to make and/or worship idols. Why is this so difficult for you to understand even after repeated posts from us?
As I posted, the Commandments are 613 in number in Torah, and you avoided answering whether you keep kosher, of which there are numerous Commandments. Why did you do that? Why did you avoid this in your lengthy response?
I know because your repeated tactic when facing a difficult question for you to answer is to deflect into something else. So, why not give it a go this time?
As I posted before, the Covenants of both Abraham and Moses are designated by scripture to be "forever" and "perpetual". If you can't remember that post whereas I did that, just let men know and I'll repost it.
How about the bread & wine of the Eucharist? How about the Bible itself? How about the Ark of the Covenant? How about the Apostles? Etc.
Note that "venerate" does not mean worship:
ven·er·ate
/ˈvenəˌrāt/
verb
- regard with great respect; revere.
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nPeace
Veteran Member
Strange I didn't get notified of this post.
Did you actually just say "In Catholicism, we are forbidden to make and/or worship idols?
Just trying to help. You are forbidden to make idols right? So what's an idol?
What's the command at Exodus 20...
4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth.
Don't you see the problem?
Secondly, while we learn God's view on matters, for example how he feels about his name, making and/or worshiping idols, setting aside time for rest and worship, avoiding sexual practices, such as bestiality, homosexuality, incest, etc. ; avoiding tattooing one's flesh, or making cuttings on it, etc. etc., Christians are under the law of Christ, where they apply the principles of God's laws and obey the law of the Christ.
So for example, while under the law of Moses, it was required to grab one of your sheep or bulls, or pigeons, and offer to the priest as a sacrifice for sins, under the law of Christ this is not a requirement.
However, we acknowledge that unless blood is poured out, no forgiveness takes place. Christ's blood is poured out in our behalf. He is our sacrificial lamb.
Sorry. Let me put that nicely. You don't know that. You are making false accusations. I hope it has nothing to do with ego. You know how it goes sometimes with some educated ones, with their degrees and PhDs, and stuff.
I really didn't understand what you were talking about. For emphasis
What is this all about?
I never got repeated posts from you... whoever us is.
Did you actually just say "In Catholicism, we are forbidden to make and/or worship idols?
Just trying to help. You are forbidden to make idols right? So what's an idol?
What's the command at Exodus 20...
4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth.
Don't you see the problem?
Perhaps you need to explain. I never heard of kosher. What's that?
Secondly, while we learn God's view on matters, for example how he feels about his name, making and/or worshiping idols, setting aside time for rest and worship, avoiding sexual practices, such as bestiality, homosexuality, incest, etc. ; avoiding tattooing one's flesh, or making cuttings on it, etc. etc., Christians are under the law of Christ, where they apply the principles of God's laws and obey the law of the Christ.
So for example, while under the law of Moses, it was required to grab one of your sheep or bulls, or pigeons, and offer to the priest as a sacrifice for sins, under the law of Christ this is not a requirement.
However, we acknowledge that unless blood is poured out, no forgiveness takes place. Christ's blood is poured out in our behalf. He is our sacrificial lamb.
Oh please. Spare me the ego tripping, metis.
Sorry. Let me put that nicely. You don't know that. You are making false accusations. I hope it has nothing to do with ego. You know how it goes sometimes with some educated ones, with their degrees and PhDs, and stuff.
I really didn't understand what you were talking about.
For emphasis This is why I didn't answer, what you call it...kosher... because I have not a clue about what you are going on about.
What is this all about?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, but an "idol" is an object meant to be worshiped. If it's just making an object, then we must find God guilty of doing what he supposedly condemned with Moses' serpent and what God ordered to be made for the Ark of the Covenant.
Really? Here are the 613 Commandments given by God as found in Torah, and if you go through the list you will see those relating to dietary and slaughter requirements for the Jewish people. The verses and where they are found on the entire Mosaic Law is also included in this link: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
Saying that some JW's here deflect and not answer the original question(s) put to them is not an "ego trip" on my part as this happens quite often.Oh please. Spare me the ego tripping, metis.
And the fact that you disdain such education shows, even in this area.
The word "law", such as what applies to Jews and also Gentiles, shows up 865 times in the Bible [see here: Bible, Revised Standard Version], and yet you obviously know so little about "Law" as it shows up in the OT. Since the NT deals with the Law as being one of the main themes addressed by Jesus and his followers, how can one begin to understand Jesus' comments on the basis of the Law if one doesn't even know them in the context of what God said about the Law and also how it pertains to Jews and, later, Christians?
The same ignorance of some also pertains to what the Tanakh says about the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants, such as not knowing that they are referred to as being "forever" and "perpetual".
Thus, to accuse me of having an "ego trip" because I mentioned your propensity to sometimes defect to other topics and not answer the question put to you is, frankly, even a low blow for you.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Okay, so you are telling me that (1) you can make a god, or representation of a god,
as long as you do not worship it, but you can venerate it - that is, kiss it up,
and hold it up in services,
and bow to it,
and look upon it with adoration, and use it for prayers,
and (2) you can do all of this although you were not commanded by Jesus to do so, but know that God repeatedly commanded against making anything (for worship) and or bowling to it..
Then you would turn around and (3) call God a hypocrite for condemning the making of objects to use in worship, while he told his people to do make objects for particular purposes !!!
I would not be surprised if you told me God is a hypocrite for judging people, and appointing judges, while telling us not to judge.
When this is done...
What is it encouraging? What are people seeing... What are people going to do?
You say he is not guilty of sin, and this is not idol worship?
If you cannot see that it is, metis, I think it's because you don't want to see. Evidently, it is indeed a special kind of blindness, some choose to exhibit.
...and with that, I leave you, and your pope to God.
According to Jesus Christ, it's not the only thing the waters under the woman will be judged for.
(Revelation 17:1, 2) 1 . . .“Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality, and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”
You lost me, I'm sorry. So?
I don't think so.
Ignoring your false accusations you falsely call facts.
What are you talking about metis? Are you babbling?
Are you claiming that the Mosaic Law is binding on Christians ... without scripture?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Okay, so you are telling me that (1) you can make a god, or representation of a god,
as long as you do not worship it, but you can venerate it - that is, kiss it up,
and hold it up in services,
and bow to it,
and look upon it with adoration, and use it for prayers,
and (2) you can do all of this although you were not commanded by Jesus to do so, but know that God repeatedly commanded against making anything (for worship) and or bowling to it..
Then you would turn around and (3) call God a hypocrite for condemning the making of objects to use in worship, while he told his people to do make objects for particular purposes !!!
I would not be surprised if you told me God is a hypocrite for judging people, and appointing judges, while telling us not to judge.
When this is done...
What is it encouraging? What are people seeing... What are people going to do?
You say he is not guilty of sin, and this is not idol worship?
If you cannot see that it is, metis, I think it's because you don't want to see. Evidently, it is indeed a special kind of blindness, some choose to exhibit.
...and with that, I leave you, and your pope to God.
According to Jesus Christ, it's not the only thing the waters under the woman will be judged for.
(Revelation 17:1, 2) 1 . . .“Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality, and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”
You lost me, I'm sorry. So?
I don't think so.
Ignoring your false accusations you falsely call facts.
What are you talking about metis? Are you babbling?
This has already been explained to you in the context of "veneration" versus "idolatry", thus your pictures and words above don't even amount to a hill of beans.