Is Deuteronomy 18:18 Jesus?

JerryMyers said:

Definition of trinity is ‘God (the Father) is the son (Jesus) and God is also the Holy Spirit, but, the son is NOT the Father nor is he the Holy Spirit AND the Holy Spirit is NOT the Father nor is he the son – they are three distinct persons and they can coexist independently at the same time and space’.

So, using your analogy – “The Trinity is like an egg having a shell, a white, and a yolk”, which one is assuming the role of the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit ?? Let’s say the shell is assuming the role of the Father - can we say the shell is the white and also the yolk, but the white is not the shell nor is it the yolk and the yolk is not the shell nor is it the white ?? If that sounds like nonsense, that’s because it is nonsense! Trinity is a MAN-MADE doctrine developed long after Jesus' departure and that’s why no prophet of God, including Jesus, ever preach trinity in their respective lifetime.



No, the Bible did NOT teach you Jesus is literally the Word of God, it’s your church and preachers that teach you that by misinterpreting the scripture and Jesus’ words to ‘tailor-fit’ their preaching into the scripture.



Jesus NOT SAYING outright “I am God” in the whole Bible is NOT, I repeat, NOT, the key indicator that tells us Jesus is NOT God/God the Son, it’s when Jesus OUTRIGHT DENY that he’s God/God’s Son/God the Son that tells us, without a shadow of a doubt, he (Jesus) is NOT God. Why? Because Jesus denied it himself - and you can find that in your own Bible !!

I can understand why Trinitarian like yourself will turn a blind eye on Jesus’ denial that he’s God the Son, even it’s there in your own Bible, because if Jesus is NOT God/God the Son, then, your trinity doctrine and everything that stands on Jesus’ divinity will just collapse like the domino cards.

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Answer: Jesus is not God’s Son in the sense of a human father and a son. God did not get married and have a son. God did not mate with Mary and, together with her, produce a son. Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form (John 1:1, 14). Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35 declares, “The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’”

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During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63). “‘Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven’” (Matthew 26:64). The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66). Later, before Pontius Pilate, “The Jews insisted, ‘We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He claimed to be the Son of God’” (John 19:7). Why would His claiming to be the Son of God be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence? The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase “Son of God.” To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God—was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15. Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.”

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By the time of Jesus about a thousand years later Messianic expectations among the Jews were feverish. No prophet had appeared for many centuries and the nation correctly concluded that the time of the Messiah’s appearance was at hand. But when he came he was hardly the ‘messiah’ the Jews were expecting. Instead, although he was indeed born of David’s line, he grew up in humble obscurity in Galilee and when he began to perform miracles and teach the people, he hardly looked like the great anointed King of Israel that the nation was waiting for. When he was arrested, condemned and crucified, the Jews mocked him as a parody of what they were anticipating: ‘He saved others, he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him’ (Matthew 27:42).

What was most important, however, is not what the Jews were expecting but what the prophets had actually been foretelling when they foresaw the coming of the Messiah. The nation had conveniently overlooked the second half of Psalm 89. It begins: ‘But now you have spurned and rejected him; you are full of wrath against your anointed’ (Psalm 89:38). The Jews thought the focus had shifted and that the lament which followed had the nation’s own distresses in mind. But the terminology continued to be the same and it is quite clear that the person spoken of in the following verses is the same one as the glorious King of Israel mentioned earlier. Notice these distinctive similarities:

1. The Person is still Described in the Masculine Gender

‘But now you have spurned him’ (v.38), ‘you have broken through all his walls’ (v.40), ‘all who pass by plunder him’ (v.41), ‘you have cut short the days of his youth; you have covered him with shame’ (v.45). It is the same individual male who was spoken of consistently in the triumphant passage who continues to be described in the forlorn passage which follows.

2. Once Again He is the Lord’s Anointed

As God had said ‘with my holy oil I have anointed him’ (v.20), so now the psalm says ‘you are full of wrath against your anointed’ (v.38). It is the same mashiah who is being spoken of, the one whose foes would be crushed before him, who is now described as suffering even the wrath of God on himself. For the first time, and the Jews missed this entirely, the coming Messiah, ha Mashiah, is described as a suffering Messiah as well as a glorious Messiah.

3. He is the same Servant of God

In the triumphant passage anticipating the coming Son of David the Lord said: ‘I have found my servant David, with my holy oil I have anointed him’ (v.20). In the lament which follows, the speaker says: ‘You have renounced the covenant with your servant’ (v.39). It is the same ‘servant’ who is the subject of the psalm throughout.

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Skywalker said:

When someone says we are all God's children in the context of treating everyone with respect, they are not saying that the people being discussed have a relationship with God-that is not the context of what is being discussed. The term son or daughter of God has a different meaning depending on the context. Jesus being the Son of God has multiple meanings. What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of God? | GotQuestions.org
The term a son of God can mean a holy and righteous person, but in a sense, only Jesus was holy and righteous. It is blasphemous to call the pope holy father. No human being is holy. Nobody can being Christ like. Only Christ was sinless. The term son of God can refer to a holy righteous person, but that doesn't take away from the term used in the Bible in the context of Jesus refers to the divinity of Jesus.
The Old Testament says that the Suffering Servant is the Messiah. Zechariah 14:14 mentions that the Messiah is God. And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. The Suffering Servant is the second person of the Trinity. In that sense, Jesus is the Son of God because of His Sonship. Al-Masih: the Messiah

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JerryMyers said:

All your insistency that Jesus is God the Son and all the links you gave became irrelevant because Jesus himself has DENIED he’s God, God’s Son/God the Son – read your Bible.

Likewise, all your insistency that God is a triune God made up of 3 persons who are all Gods too and all the links you gave in support of that notion, became irrelevant because God Himself had said that beside Him, there’s NO OTHER God – read your Bible.

Trinitarians would have made a strong case IF Jesus had NOT DENIED that he’s God/God the Son, and God Himself had NOT SAID that beside Him, there’s NO OTHER God…. BUT, Jesus DID DENY he’s God/God the Son and God DID SAY that beside Him, there’s no other God – READ YOUR BIBLE instead of reading and relying on the writings of other people.

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Response:

Seemingly, Ghounem assumes that Jesus is not the owner of the building or the house, i.e. Jesus is not the Creator/Ruler of heaven and earth, but one of its guests. Let us see what the Holy Bible says:

"He then began to speak to them in parables: 'A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, "They will respect my son." But the tenants said to one another, "This is the heir. Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours." So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard. What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.’" Mark 12:1-9
"Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.'" Matthew 28:18

"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." Luke 10:22

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you." John 16:13

"After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 'Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." John 17:1-5

"All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them." John 17:10

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A. Jews, after the rise of Christianity, were compelled to change the Hebrew word for "one" from echad to yachid:

1. For any Jew to use "Yachid" to refer to the oneness of God is UNBIBLICAL because the Holy Spirit never willed that any scripture in the Bible uses the word YACHID in reference to God.
2. It is claimed by Jews who attack Christian theology that the use of the word ECHAD in Deut 6:4 causes them no problem since the word ECHAD is used in other places in the Old Testament to refer to a clearly single person. But this ignores the powerful argument made by Christians, namely that the word YACHID, which always means one and only one, is never used of God.
3. If the use of "echad" instead of "yachid" in Deut 6:4 gave no help to the early Christians in proving to the Jews that Yahweh of the Old Testament was the multi-personal God of the Christians (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) then Jews would not have felt compelled replace the word in their dogmas and statements of faith. If it is really that insignificant, then they would have told us the argument Christians were using to prove trinity is invalid to native Hebrews who know and speak the language.
4. A man named Moses Maimonides who lived in the 12th century AD, was Jewish Rabbi and philosopher who compiled a creed in Hebrew using the Aramaic alphabet with 13 articles. While he did use the word echad in Deut 6:4, in his 13 point creed, he uses the UNBIBLICAL word yachid instead of echad:
   Hebrew using Aramaic alphabet: אֲנִי מַאֲמִין בֶּאֱמוּנָה שְׁלֵמָה, שֶׁהַבּורֵא יִתְבָּרַךְ שְׁמו הוּא יָחִיד וְאֵין יְחִידוּת כָּמוהוּ בְּשׁוּם פָּנִים, וְהוּא לְבַדּו אֱלהֵינוּ, הָיָה הוֶהוְיִהְיֶה
   1. Translation 1: "I believe with a perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, is an absolute one [yachid]".
   2. Translation 2: “I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be his name is one and there is no unity like his in any way. He alone is our G-d- He was, he is, and he will be.
   3. 1. Modern Jewish prayer books use the UNBIBLICAL word "yachid" to describe God.
         1. Remember, by UNBIBLICAL, we do not mean that Yachid is not used in the Bible.
         2. By UNBIBLICAL we mean that YACHID is never used to describe God's oneness in the Torah or anywhere in the entire Old Testament.

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Skywalker said:

JJesus never denied his divinity. Rebuttal to Mohamed Ghounem : Did Jesus deny being God?

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Skywalker said:

JDeuteronomy 6:4 mentions God being complex in His unity, not having a solitary oneness. Trinity: Oneness in unity not in number: Yachid vs. Echad

God saying besides Him there's no other God, doesn't mean that God's nature is a solitary oneness and not a complex unity.

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JerryMyers said:

But Jesus DID DENY his divinity – you just refused to acknowledge that fact.

As I said, all your insistency and all the links you gave in support that Jesus is God became irrelevant because Jesus denied that he’s God/God’s Son/God the Son. The denial of Jesus that he’s God/God’s Son/God the Son automatically makes all attempts to project Jesus as God, became just conjectures, misinterpretations of the scripture, and assumptions.

A good example of misinterpretation of the scripture would be Luke 10:22 - "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him”.

The phrase “All things have been committed to me” does not prove Jesus is God. Here, “all things” is a reference to ‘knowledge’ and the following next sentence confirms this - “No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son…”. The word ‘knows’, used twice here is translated from the Greek word ἐπιγινώσκω (epiginōskō), meaning "to know accurately, know well".

So, in Luke 10:22, Jesus is NOT claiming divinity because he has been given 'control over everything', as Trinitarians wanted to believe, but he’s saying all knowledge (concerning God) has been given to him, or in other words, no one knows God as well and as accurate as he knows God (because all that knowledge has been given to him by God) and likewise, no one knows him as well and as accurate as God knows him (because God is All-Knowledgeable).


God saying “Besides Him there's no other God” means God is The ABSOLUTE ONE and ONLY and ‘no other’ means God is NOT a ‘3-in-1’ God.

Deuteronomy 6:4 is also VERY CLEAR that God is the ABSOLUTE ONE and ONLY – what’s so complex about that ??!

The fact that Trinitarians try to make simple and crystal clear verses complex only proves that their belief originated from man-made doctrines, NOT from God because God is NOT a God of Confusion.

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Skywalker said:

John 3:16-3:19

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

John 5:21-23

For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.…

John 1:4

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

His holiness and His justice determine that His very nature has to punish sin, or He would not be holy and just. Just like a judge who lets a criminal go is unjust, God would be unjust if He didn't punish us. But God is also love. So the Bible tells us that God reached out to us in HIs love, He reached out to us in His holiness, and also in His love to save us, and thats why He sent Jesus Christ in the world. That's why God became a man, that God would be able to save us, because the payment had to be made, and He didn't want us to have to make it, but He had his Son pay in our place, as a substitute. He died in our place. In fact, He's the only one that could do it. Why? Because he's infinite. He could pay it in a finite amount of time. He took hell upon Himself on Calvary's cross as He said my God my God why hast thou forsaken me and he was separated from His father and the earth and everything and the sky turned black and He experienced what we deserved. Radically He experienced it. In fact, He could experience it, in just a few hours, because He's infinite. You see, us, as finite beings, if we go to hell, we have to suffer infinitely for our sins. God being infinite, He could suffer in a finite amount of time, because He had an infinite punishment, because any kind of punishment to God is infinite, because He's an infinite being. He paid for your sins on the cross. He took the hell that you were going to upon Himself.

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JerryMyers said:

More misinterpretations, conjectures, and assumptions ??
Let me say it again - The denial of Jesus that he’s God/God’s Son/God the Son automatically makes all attempts to project Jesus as God, became just conjectures, misinterpretations of the scripture and assumptions.

So, to show you how verses can be misinterpreted, let’s take the first one you quoted, John 3:16, the famous verse that Trinitarian Christians normally used to project Jesus as the one and only God the Son - “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”.

Two phrases in John 3:16 here that Trinitarians always misinterpreted to project Jesus as God the Son –

First, the phrase ‘one and only’ was translated from the Greek word ‘monogenes’ which means ‘unique, one of a kind’. Christians tend to understand ‘one and only’ here as Jesus being the only Son of God or to be more precise, the one and only God the Son of the Father, the God. This belief became just a conjecture because Jesus himself had denied he’s God’s Son/God the Son. So, how is Jesus ‘one and only’ ? Jesus is ‘one and only’ because he’s of a miraculous birth - the only one who was born from the womb of a virgin - there’s no one else of a virgin birth before him or after him.

Second, the phrase ‘that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life’. By this phrase, Christians believe they must only believe in Jesus to have eternal life. Contrary to what Christians believe, this phrase is actually in reference to God Almighty, NOT Jesus. While it goes without saying the people in Jesus’ time must listen and believe in Jesus’ preaching to be on the right path to eternal life, but, just listening and believing in Jesus’ preaching will NOT get you the eternal life IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN THE ONE TRUE GOD. This is confirmed by Jesus himself two chapters later in the Book of John, when he said, “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word AND believes HIM WHO SENT ME has ETERNAL LIFE ...” – John 5:24

But why would you even quote John 3:16 when you don’t believe Jesus when he told you who the true God is (John 17:3) ?? If you truly believe in Jesus’ words, you will NOT keep insisting Jesus is God as NOT only has he told you who the true God is, he also denied that he’s God/God’s Son/God the Son, and in John 3:16 and John 5:24, Jesus told you to believe in the One who sent him to get eternal life.

To believe in the One who sent Jesus would mean to believe that the One who sent Jesus IS the ONLY TRUE GOD, but instead, you believe in the one who was sent as the only true God. How did that happen ??

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Biblical Meaning of "Son of God"

The term "son of God" too is used in a variety of ways in the Holy Bible. As creator, God is the "Father" of Adam and of all mankind (Luke 3:38; Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10; etc.). However, a more specific "Father-son" relationship is achieved by the gracious choice of the Father and the faithful obedience and service of the son, not by creation and certainly not by procreation. In this sense, the following are some of those referred to as "son(s) of God" in the Bible:

1. The people chosen by God (Exodus 4:22f.; Jeremiah 31:9,20; Hosea 11:1; Romans 8:14; II Corinthians 6:18; Galatians 3:26; Hebrews 2:10; Revelation 21:7)

2. Heavenly beings (Job 1:6)

3. Kings and rulers (II Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7; 82:6; 89:26f.)

4. Pious, godly individuals (Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:35)

If the meaning of the term "Son of God" in the case of Jesus would be limited to the same significance that it has in these cases above, even the Muslims might agree with its use

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Skywalker said:

Jesus was born of a virgin because he was God incarnate. Why would Jesus be born of a virgin if he was a mere man? The Sonship of Jesus shows that God is a compound unity, echad, not a solitary oneness, yachid. Jesus as the Son of God

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Skywalker said:

His holiness and His justice determine that His very nature has to punish sin, or He would not be holy and just. Just like a judge who lets a criminal go is unjust, God would be unjust if He didn't punish us. But God is also love. So the Bible tells us that God reached out to us in HIs love, He reached out to us in His holiness, and also in His love to save us, and thats why He sent Jesus Christ in the world. That's why God became a man, that God would be able to save us, because the payment had to be made, and He didn't want us to have to make it, but He had his Son pay in our place, as a substitute. He died in our place. In fact, He's the only one that could do it. Why? Because he's infinite. He could pay it in a finite amount of time. He took hell upon Himself on Calvary's cross as He said my God my God why hast thou forsaken me and he was separated from His father and the earth and everything and the sky turned black and He experienced what we deserved. Radically He experienced it. In fact, He could experience it, in just a few hours, because He's infinite. You see, us, as finite beings, if we go to hell, we have to suffer infinitely for our sins. God being infinite, He could suffer in a finite amount of time, because He had an infinite punishment, because any kind of punishment to God is infinite, because He's an infinite being. He paid for your sins on the cross. He took the hell that you were going to upon Himself.

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