• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There is a devil. If there is good, there is evil. You mentioned that Baha'ullah brought a new message and new social teachings and laws and the spiritual truths that He brought are the same as Jesus brought. Similar to Buddha, just because he said some truth doesn't mean that he was of God. People mix truth and lies. Desire & Suffering: Buddhism Vs Christianity | Reasons for Jesus
There is good and evil but there is no entity called the devil... Satan is just symbolic for the lower selfish nature of man that lead man to evil and sin.

I never claimed that Baha'u'llah was God, He was a Manifestation of God. Jesus was not God either, He was a Manifestation of God.

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9)…..

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.”

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
There is good and evil but there is no entity called the devil... Satan is just symbolic for the lower selfish nature of man that lead man to evil and sin.

I never claimed that Baha'u'llah was God, He was a Manifestation of God. Jesus was not God either, He was a Manifestation of God.

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9)…..

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.”

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

Psalms 91:3 mentions Satan. Temptation and deception exists. If there is good in the spiritual realm, there is evil in the spiritual realm. The Snare Of The Fowler: Psalm 91 Series Part 3 of 7.

Psalm 91:3-4
“Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler And from the perilous pestilence. He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler.”

Our God provides for His Church the most comprehensive protection on the planet, all in this one Psalm. We are protected from every kind of danger from every direction, every source and at every hour, night or day. That’s 24/7/365, 360° protection. That’s our God!

Fowler’s Snare.
One of the things He from which delivers us He calls, “The snare of the fowler.”
This is a bird trap, one of the the devil’s many (pathetic) devices. You see, all he can do is try to deceive, disguise, distract, and misdirect in an effort to ensnare people by making sin look attractive, and he’s really good at it.
We, however, not only have the word of God, we have the leading of God Himself from within by the Person of the Holy Spirit!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Psalms 91:3 mentions Satan. Temptation and deception exists. If there is good in the spiritual realm, there is evil in the spiritual realm. The Snare Of The Fowler: Psalm 91 Series Part 3 of 7.
As I said I do not believe Satan is a real being. I believe whenever Satan is mentioned in the Bible it is a metaphor for evil.

“Say: O people! The Lamp of God is burning; take heed, lest the fierce winds of your disobedience extinguish its light. Now is the time to arise and 168 magnify the Lord, your God. Strive not after bodily comforts, and keep your heart pure and stainless. The Evil One is lying in wait, ready to entrap you. Gird yourselves against his wicked devices, and, led by the light of the name of the one true God, deliver yourselves from the darkness that surroundeth you. Center your thoughts in the Well-Beloved, rather than in your own selves.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 167-168
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
As I said I do not believe Satan is a real being. I believe whenever Satan is mentioned in the Bible it is a metaphor for evil.

“Say: O people! The Lamp of God is burning; take heed, lest the fierce winds of your disobedience extinguish its light. Now is the time to arise and 168 magnify the Lord, your God. Strive not after bodily comforts, and keep your heart pure and stainless. The Evil One is lying in wait, ready to entrap you. Gird yourselves against his wicked devices, and, led by the light of the name of the one true God, deliver yourselves from the darkness that surroundeth you. Center your thoughts in the Well-Beloved, rather than in your own selves.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 167-168

The fowler mentioned in Psalm 91:3 is the enemy. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

Psalm 109:6 mentions Satan.
Set thou a wicked man over him: And let Satan stand at his right hand.

The Bible doesn't mention that Satan is a metaphor it mentions the existence of Satan as a personality. Satan is a fallen angel. Is Satan / the devil a person or some sort of force or personification of evil?

In 1 Peter 5:8-9 we read the important warning, "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world." Satan is strong and seeks to harm God's people. However, God's Spirit lives within the believer to protect and provide safety from Satan's attacks.

Ephesians 6:10-20 speaks of the spiritual armor the believer is to wear to protect against spiritual evil. Verse 11 states, "Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil." This armor includes a variety of Christian virtues, as well as the "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (v. 17). Those who "take up the whole armor of God" will "be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm" (v. 13).
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
It might seem like a personality because it is supposed to. Metaphorical language is like that.

Satan is a fallen angel. Satan fell because he wanted to be God. If there is good, there is evil. Who is Satan?

Today, Satan is the ruler of this world, and is called the "prince of the power of the air" (John 12:31; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 2:2). He is also called "the accuser" (Revelation 12:10), he tempts humans to sin against God as he did (Matthew 4:3; 1 Thessalonians 3:5), and he deceives humanity about the truth, especially the truth about God Himself (Genesis 3; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 20:3). He lies about God's character and purposes, he tells fallen humanity that it can save itself without God's grace, and he does all he can to separate us from God and undermine God in our eyes, using his powers of deception. Actually, the name "satan" means "adversary" or "one who opposes." He is also known as "the devil", which means "slanderer."
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
It might take some time. Since there are countless different versions of Christianity.

That's OK. Take your time.
Just as a reminder, here's what you said: #1233

"Why would the Bible need to state the obvious? You keep forgetting that until you demonstrate that the Bible is reliable that it is NOT a reliable source. And since it fails almost every rational test put to it why even believe it in the first place?"

So, please show your evidence that the Bible fails almost every rational test put to it. Thanks.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That's OK. Take your time.
Just as a reminder, here's what you said: #1233

"Why would the Bible need to state the obvious? You keep forgetting that until you demonstrate that the Bible is reliable that it is NOT a reliable source. And since it fails almost every rational test put to it why even believe it in the first place?"

So, please show your evidence that the Bible fails almost every rational test put to it. Thanks.
I tried to have a discussion with you about that but you appeared to run away.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
There is good and evil but there is no entity called the devil... Satan is just symbolic for the lower selfish nature of man that lead man to evil and sin.

I never claimed that Baha'u'llah was God, He was a Manifestation of God. Jesus was not God either, He was a Manifestation of God.

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9)…..

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.”

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

The Bahai teachings about the Trinity go against the Old and New Testament. Bahá’í Faith - Apologetics

Bahá’ís, however, believe that God’s essence is unknowable by finite human beings. Thus, we can understand the attributes or qualities of God, but never experience direct knowledge of His divine essence. What we can know of God is revealed progressively throughout history by His Manifestations (prophets).

Christian Response:
The Bible teaches that there is indeed only one God (Deut. 6:4) and that He is the Creator of all that exists. However, the Bible warns that all other gods are false and those who worship them are guilty of idolatry (Ex. 20:3-4; Isa. 44:6-8).

The New Testament teaches that God exists eternally in three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 8:6; 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 1 Pet. 1:2). The Bible also teaches that people can know God through a personal relationship with His Son Jesus Christ (Heb. 1:1-2), and not just have information about Him.

The Trinity is mentioned in the first book of the Bible. Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Numbers 23 and 1 Samuel 15 say God is not a man. God is invisible and cannot be seen, and yet He's seen at different times. The elders of Israel-74 people, see the God of Israel on Mount Sinai, in Exodus the 24th chapter. How is it that God is unseen and yet seen? It's through his Son. He's complex in His unity. The memra is a reference to God being complex in His unity.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The Bahai teachings about the Trinity go against the Old and New Testament. Bahá’í Faith - Apologetics

Yes, the Bahai have their own approach to Abrahamic beliefs. So what? So do Jews and Muslims. This is not breaking news.

The Trinity is mentioned in the first book of the Bible. Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Numbers 23 and 1 Samuel 15 say God is not a man. God is invisible and cannot be seen, and yet He's seen at different times. The elders of Israel-74 people, see the God of Israel on Mount Sinai, in Exodus the 24th chapter. How is it that God is unseen and yet seen? It's through his Son. He's complex in His unity. The memra is a reference to God being complex in His unity.

The Genesis verse is merely creative reinterpreting based upon English definitions. The Bible was not written in English. And yes, as you pointed out the Bible is full of contradictions. This is not breaking news either.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Yes, the Bahai have their own approach to Abrahamic beliefs. So what? So do Jews and Muslims. This is not breaking news.



The Genesis verse is merely creative reinterpreting based upon English definitions. The Bible was not written in English. And yes, as you pointed out the Bible is full of contradictions. This is not breaking news either.

People interpert the Bible to see what they want to us. The fictitious Jesus conceived by popular culture tries to make Him to be like us rather than the other way around. People have advanced many false messiahs and imposter Jesuses in their own image, but none has the power to save us or to transform us into new creations. That is the sole prerogative of Jesus Christ, if we'll follow and surrender to Him. John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Genesis 1:26 is in the Hebrew Bible, not just the Christian Bible. People aren't trying to add their beliefs into the text, the Trinity is already mentioned in the Jewish scriptures.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The Bahai teachings about the Trinity go against the Old and New Testament. Bahá’í Faith - Apologetics

Bahá’ís, however, believe that God’s essence is unknowable by finite human beings. Thus, we can understand the attributes or qualities of God, but never experience direct knowledge of His divine essence. What we can know of God is revealed progressively throughout history by His Manifestations (prophets).

Christian Response:
The Bible teaches that there is indeed only one God (Deut. 6:4) and that He is the Creator of all that exists. However, the Bible warns that all other gods are false and those who worship them are guilty of idolatry (Ex. 20:3-4; Isa. 44:6-8).
Baha'is also believe there is only one God, the Creator of all that exists. Obviously, the Christian could not respond to what Baha'is believe about the unknowable Essence of God so they accused the Baha'is of being guilty of worshiping a false God, when it is the Christians who are worshiping a false God, a God that has been divided up into three parts.
The New Testament teaches that God exists eternally in three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 8:6; 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 1 Pet. 1:2). The Bible also teaches that people can know God through a personal relationship with His Son Jesus Christ (Heb. 1:1-2), and not just have information about Him.
No, the New Testament does not teach that God exists eternally in three Persons, Christianity teaches that, but only Trinitarian Christians believe that, not all Christians believe that... So please explain why all Christians are reading the same Bible, yet all Christians do not believe in a Trinity.
The Trinity is mentioned in the first book of the Bible. Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
"Our" does not refer to a Trinity. We were not made in the image of Jesus or in the image of the Holy Spirit, we were made in the image of God. We know that if we read the verse in context, as the next verse says what God did.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
People interpert the Bible to see what they want to us. The fictitious Jesus conceived by popular culture tries to make Him to be like us rather than the other way around. People have advanced many false messiahs and imposter Jesuses in their own image, but none has the power to save us or to transform us into new creations. That is the sole prerogative of Jesus Christ, if we'll follow and surrender to Him. John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Genesis 1:26 is in the Hebrew Bible, not just the Christian Bible. People aren't trying to add their beliefs into the text, the Trinity is already mentioned in the Jewish scriptures.
Your Jesus appears to be just as fictitious.

How do you separate the mythical parts of the Bible from the "true" parts of the Bible?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Baha'is also believe there is only one God, the Creator of all that exists. Obviously, the Christian could not respond to what Baha'is believe about the unknowable Essence of God so they accused the Baha'is of being guilty of worshiping a false God, when it is the Christians who are worshiping a false God, a God that has been divided up into three parts.

No, the New Testament does not teach that God exists eternally in three Persons, Christianity teaches that, but only Trinitarian Christians believe that, not all Christians believe that... So please explain why all Christians are reading the same Bible, yet all Christians do not believe in a Trinity.

"Our" does not refer to a Trinity. We were not made in the image of Jesus or in the image of the Holy Spirit, we were made in the image of God. We know that if we read the verse in context, as the next verse says what God did.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The Old Testament mentions a compound unity, not a solitary oneness, for the nature of God. Trinity: Oneness in unity not in number: Yachid vs. Echad

Yachid vs. Echad: The most important verse Jews memorized in the Bible was Deut 6:4: "Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [Echad]!" There are a few words in Hebrew that the Holy Spirit could have used a word the has one exclusive meaning: the numeric, solitary oneness of God ("yachid" or "bad").

Instead the Holy Spirit chose to use the Hebrew word, "echad" which is used most often as a unified one, and sometimes as numeric oneness. For example, when God said in Genesis 2:24 "the two shall become one [echad] flesh" it is the same word for "one" that was used in Deut 6:4.

This is most troubling for Jews and Anti-Trinitarians since the word yachid, the main Hebrew word for solitary oneness, is never used in reference to God.

the New Testament teaches that God exists eternally in three Persons. Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Male and female reflect different aspects of God's image.
 
Top