Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Subduction Zone said:

Or that the Bible was written by several authors, none of whom were eyewitnesses and were relying on oral tradition. Oral tradition will cause quite a few different versions of the same story to arise. The endless contradictions in the Bible seem to confirm this.

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Trailblazer said:

In some instances Jesus was referring to himself as the Son of Man and we know that because of the context of those verses where the title is connected with the earthly life of Jesus we know about from cross verification (reading other verses). For example, we know from other verses that Jesus did the following when he came to earth:

But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins - he said to the paralytic (Mark 2:10).

So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28).

And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head (Matthew 8:20)

For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost (Luke 19:10).

And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again (Mark 8:31).

It is not a reasonable conclusion to assume that Jesus was referring to Himself as the Son of Man who would come in the clouds with great power and glory because:

(a) Great power and glory is not consistent with the personality of Jesus. Jesus was meek and lowly.

(b) Son of man is not a title that belongs exclusively to Jesus, so there is no reason to believe that Jesus was the only Son of Man: 37 Bible verses about Son Of Man

"Son of man", "son of Adam", or "like a man", are phrases used in the Hebrew Bible, various apocalyptic works of the intertestamental period, and in the Greek New Testament. In the indefinite form ("son of Adam", "son of man", "like a man") used in the Hebrew Bible it is a form of address, or it contrasts human beings against God and the angels, or contrasts foreign nations (like Persia and Babylon), which are often represented as animals in apocalyptic writings (bear, goat, or ram), with Israel which is represented as human (a "son of man"), or it signifies an eschatological human figure.

In its indefinite form it is used in the Greek Old Testament, Biblical apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. The Greek New Testament uses the earlier indefinite form while introducing a novel definite form, "the son of man."

Son of man - Wikipedia

(c) Jesus could not come back to earth in the same body because His body died on the cross. Jesus did not come back to life walk around and then ascend into the clouds to heaven and live there for 2000 years planning to return at some future date. This is all a belief that came into being from a misinterpretation and thus a misunderstanding of Bible verses, a grave misunderstanding.

(d) There are no verses wherein Jesus says He is coming back to earth and many verses where Jesus says He is not coming back to earth because His work is finished here: (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

The logical conclusion we can draw is that the second coming was slated to be another man. Since truth from God is revealed progressively, Jesus promised to send the Comforter and the Spirit of truth to reveal more truth in the future, but Christians did not understand what Jesus was referring to and believed that was a reference ton the Holy Spirit that was sent to the disciples at Pentecost when on fact those were titles for the man who would be the second coming of Christ who was the return of the Spirit of Christ.

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Sometime in the sixth century BC the prophet Daniel received visions concerning future events, and in one of those visions he saw a heavenly Being in the likeness of a man coming to rule forever and representing the saints of God who would also share in that dominion:

“As my vision continued that night, I saw someone like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, honor, and sovereignty over all the nations of the world, so that people of every race and nation and language worshiped him. His rule is eternal—it will never end. His kingdom will never be destroyed.” Daniel 7:13-14

What makes this supernatural revelation so astonishing is that even though this entity whose appearance was that of a man, having a human form, is personally distinct from God (depicted here as the Ancient of Days) he is nonetheless a fully Divine Being.

Note the points of similarity between this Son of Man and Yahweh God. According to the Hebrew Scriptures Yahweh is worshiped and reigns over all creation forever,

“But in the end, the holy people of the Most High will be given the kingdom, and they will rule forever and ever… until the Ancient of Days—the Most High—came and judged in favor of his holy people. Then the time arrived for the holy people to take over the kingdom.… Then the sovereignty, power, and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be given to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will last forever, and all rulers will serve and obey him.” Daniel 7:18, 22, 27

And:

“Rejoice, O people of Zion! Shout in triumph, O people of Jerusalem! Look, your king is coming to you. He is righteous and victorious, yet he is humble, riding on a donkey—riding on a donkey’s colt. I will remove the battle chariots from Israel and the warhorses from Jerusalem. I will destroy all the weapons used in battle, and your king will bring peace to the nations. His realm will stretch from sea to sea and from the Euphrates River to the ends of the earth. Because of the covenant I made with you, sealed with blood, I will free your prisoners from death in a waterless dungeon… Yahweh will appear above his people; his arrows will fly like lightning! The Sovereign Yahweh will sound the ram’s horn and attack like a whirlwind from the southern desert. Yahweh of hosts will protect his people, and they will defeat their enemies by hurling great stones. They will shout in battle as though drunk with wine. They will be filled with blood like a bowl, drenched with blood like the corners of the altar. On that day Yahweh their God will rescue his people, just as a shepherd rescues his sheep. They will sparkle in his land.” Zechariah 9:9-11, 14-16

Finally:

“And Yahweh will be king over all the earth. On that day there will be one Yahweh — his name the only one… In the end, the enemies of Jerusalem who survive the plague will go up to Jerusalem each year to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Shelters. Any nation in the world that refuses to come to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, will have no rain.” Zechariah 14:9, 16-17

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Subduction Zone said:

Or that the Bible was written by several authors, none of whom were eyewitnesses and were relying on oral tradition. Oral tradition will cause quite a few different versions of the same story to arise. The endless contradictions in the Bible seem to confirm this.

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My husband recently had a discussion with one of his professors regarding Hebrew scriptures in Genesis. My husband has concluded that because there seems to be contradition between the order of creation in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 that the Bible is not flawless. I do not share his conclusion and would like to have an answer for him. The scriptures in question are Genesis 1:1-2:3 vs. Genesis 2:4-22.

This is a common argument used against the traditional understanding of Genesis (i.e., God created everything in six normal-length days approximately 6,000 years ago). This argument attempts to show that inconsistencies exist between the first two chapters in the Bible. Critics and skeptics use it in their efforts to show the Bible cannot be trusted. Some Christians who believe in billions of years use it in trying to show that these chapters should not be understood in their plain sense. However, the argument is based on a misunderstanding of Genesis 2.

Genesis 1:1–2:3 provides us with a chronological account of what God did on each of the days during Creation Week. Genesis 2:4–25 zooms in on Day Six and shows some of the events of that day.1 Let’s take a look at what happened on Day Six, according to Genesis 2, and we’ll see there is no discrepancy here.

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Skywalker said:

The term the Son of Man is a reference to Jesus being the Messiah. Jesus was God incarnated. Job knew that the Messiah was his redeemer. Daniel's Son of Man as the Messiah

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Trailblazer said:

No, the term one like the Son of man is a reference to Baha'u'llah being the Messiah.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from the clouds of heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom will be on earth, after it is built by humans.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

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Yahweh is also the One who rides the clouds:

“Sing praises to God and to his name! Sing loud praises to him who rides the clouds. His name is Yahweh — rejoice in his presence!” Psalm 68:4

“Let all that I am praise Yahweh. O Yahweh my God, how great you are! You are robed with honor and majesty. You are dressed in a robe of light. You stretch out the starry curtain of the heavens; you lay out the rafters of your home in the rain clouds. You make the clouds your chariot; you ride upon the wings of the wind.” Psalm 104:1-3

“This message came to me concerning Egypt: Look! Yahweh is advancing against Egypt, riding on a swift cloud. The idols of Egypt tremble. The hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.” Isaiah 19:1

Thus, Daniel’s Son of Man rides the clouds like Yahweh, rules over all creation forever like Yahweh, and is worshiped by all the nations like Yahweh!

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Subduction Zone said:

Right now anything that requires me to go back is too much effort to be bothered with when it comes down to your claims that you have not been able to justify.

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Subduction Zone said:

And that is an error on your part. You do not know how little the average Christian knows about his Bible. Most hardly read it at all. They are unaware of that verse. This is not an assumption, it is a conclusion based upon a lifetime of observation. If one is unaware of a particular verse one cannot understand it. Most that cite that verse do so when they attempt to defend a literal interpretation of the Bible, and that verse does not support that.
You need to learn the difference between an reasonable conclusion based upon observation and an assumption.

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samtonga43 said:

"Too much effort"
HA! Translation from SZism...
“Well I don’t actually know' so I'll just resort to the usual excuse.

You know, the fact that you feel it is reasonable to say anything at all about what ‘most Christians’ think is quite astounding. It always comes back to the question of proof. You cannot, (and you must know that you cannot) prove that most Christians…
…Know little about the Bib
Your statement is not a reasonable conclusion. It is an assumption. You do yourself no favours by denying this fact. Unless of course you have evidence that you have contacted every living Christian and asked each of them the question. I am assuming you haven't done this, but of course it's just an assumption.
Anyway… once again, what do you understand the verse to mean? (I wonder why you keep evading this question?)

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Skywalker said:

The Bible doesn't contradict itself. Do Genesis 1 and 2 Contradict Each Other?

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samtonga43 said:

To Tb:
Great power and glory can be consistent with being meek and lowly, especially in the case of Jesus.

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Subduction Zone said:

Yes, they do. And they are thought to be two separate creation myths that were joined together.

The Two Contradictory Creation Accounts

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Between the creation of Adam and the creation of Eve, the KJV/AV Bible says (Genesis 2:19) ‘out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air’. On the surface, this seems to say that the land beasts and birds were created between Adam and Eve. However, Jewish scholars apparently did not recognize any such conflict with the account in chapter 1, where Adam and Eve were both created after the beasts and birds (Genesis 1:23–25). Why is this? Because in Hebrew the precise tense of a verb is determined by the context. It is clear from chapter 1 that the beasts and birds were created before Adam, so Jewish scholars would have understood the verb ‘formed’ in (Genesis 2:19 to mean ‘had formed’ or ‘having formed’. If we translate verse 19 as follows (as one widely used translationGenesis 1 disappears completely.

The question also stems from the wrong assumption that the second chapter of Genesis is just a different account of creation to that in chapter 1. It should be evident that chapter 2 is not just ‘another’ account of creation because chapter 2 says nothing about the creation of the heavens and the earth, the atmosphere, the seas, the land, the sun, the stars, the moon, the sea creatures, etc. Chapter 2 mentions only things directly relevant to the creation of Adam and Eve and their life in the garden God prepared specially for them. Chapter 1 may be understood as creation from God’s perspective; it is ‘the big picture’, an overview of the whole. Chapter 2 views the more important aspects from man’s perspective.

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Subduction Zone said:

Yes, they do. And they are thought to be two separate creation myths that were joined together.

The Two Contradictory Creation Accounts

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Skywalker said:

Genesis 2:19 and Genesis 1:23-25 are talking about the same creation account. Genesis contradictions? - creation.com

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Trailblazer said:

No, the term one like the Son of man is a reference to Baha'u'llah being the Messiah.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from the clouds of heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom will be on earth, after it is built by humans.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

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Trailblazer said:

As I always say, I learn more about the Bible from atheists than from Christians...
Carry on.

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Skywalker said:

The fictitious Jesus conceived by popular culture tries to make Him to be like us rather than the other way around. People have advanced many false messiahs and imposter Jesuses in their own image, but none has the power to save us or to transform us into new creations. That is the sole prerogative of Jesus Christ, if we'll follow and surrender to Him.

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Subduction Zone said:

Atheists can interpret the Bible without fear since the contradictions in it do not affect their personal beliefs.

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Subduction Zone said:

So when the creation events happen on different days in the two accounts we have no problem pointing it out. Literalists have to jump through all sorts of hoops to defend their beliefs. And the beliefs of one group often contradict those of others when it comes to the various contradictions in the Bible.

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Subduction Zone said:

A site that is very useful is this one:

BibViz Project - Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized

I have not checked to see it if works on a tablet yet but it does work on a desktop or laptop. Put your cursor on any of the red lines and click and it will give you the connected verses that contradict each other.

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Trailblazer said:

The fictitious Jesus conceived by Christianity tries to make Him to be something He never was and never will be, God incarnate, the third person of a Trinity, and a man who rose from the dead, a man who came to save us from an original sin that was never committed, and a King Messiah who is going to return to earth someday.

The the sole prerogative of Jesus Christ, if we'll follow and surrender to Him, is as follows:

“…those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties—were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, “I gave My blood for the life of the world” 6 —that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins” Some Answered Questions, p. 125

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Skywalker said:

Psalm 16:10 mentions the Resurrection of the Messiah. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

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Subduction Zone said:

No, that is a quote mine. A quote out of context. In context it does not mention the resurrection.

Did you know that the Bible says over 12 times "There is no God". Does that refute the existence of God or am I merely quoting out of context? By your standards I just refuted God using the Bible.

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